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Munt Reloaded - Development

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Reply 100 of 964, by KingGuppy

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We're changing things rapidly enough that "the last update" isn't quite specific enough 😀 Git commit IDs would be useful.

I'm working on the PCM log->lin conversion, and my most recent change makes PCM samples sound pretty awful (aside from one, which sounds divine 😀 ), so that may be the problem.

Reply 101 of 964, by sergm

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Myloch wrote:

tested the last munt update using ykhwong april build. A lot of games sound even better (like king's quest 4,5,monkey island 2, Kyrandia...). Silpheed sounds a bit weird (too much reverb?). Colonel bequest is frequently distorted/overdriven, if you leave the ingame volume on standard.
test in progress

Yeah, overdrives are still unbeaten. But I've set volume 4 times greater 😉 Now it exactly corresponds that of the LA32 for a single partial playing. I suspect something needs to be changed in the mixer...

Reply 102 of 964, by ykhwong

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Myloch, I'll frequently update the MUNT patch for DOSBox on my website.

Meanwhile the last commit (19d167c0d72d4ed8980a) to synth.cpp leads to breaking the overall emulation. It does not sound at all in some games like MegaMan X.
https://github.com/munt/munt/commit/19d167c0d … b970a4c4c57faad

Reply 106 of 964, by Myloch

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I can confirm that MegamanX mt32 is working here with
MUNT update 638e4e1833c834864fcd

the problem that cannot be fixed is -ugly- mt32 support for this game L0L
megaman x was programmed at the end of the dos era, where the majority of games sounded much cooler with general midi

sound overdrive problems with colonel bequest and prince of persia 2

Reply 107 of 964, by ykhwong

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Myloch wrote:
I can confirm that MegamanX mt32 is working here with MUNT update 638e4e1833c834864fcd […]
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I can confirm that MegamanX mt32 is working here with
MUNT update 638e4e1833c834864fcd

the problem that cannot be fixed is -ugly- mt32 support for this game L0L
megaman x was programmed at the end of the dos era, where the majority of games sounded much cooler with general midi

MegaMan X is compatible with MT-32 according to sound configuration but it seems to be coded mainly for GM. You may try Fluidsynth soundfont instead if it sounds awful to you.

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Reply 108 of 964, by Myloch

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yep I know. This is a problem with mid-nineties era dos games, General Midi was the standard and mt32 was an old thing, programmers frequently coded music for GM and then roughly adapted it to mt32.
I simply use general midi from the setup menu, I tried mt32 just for testing purposes 😀

Reply 109 of 964, by Leolo

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Then, can we ask for a proper Roland SC-55 emulator?? (Virtual Sound Canvas doesn't quite cut it)

When MT-32 emulation achieves "perfect" status, you'll probably need to find another hobby. What could be better than writing YET another emulator?!? 🤣

OK, just kidding 😉

Reply 110 of 964, by sergm

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Leolo wrote:

Then, can we ask for a proper Roland SC-55 emulator?? (Virtual Sound Canvas doesn't quite cut it)

When MT-32 emulation achieves "perfect" status, you'll probably need to find another hobby. What could be better than writing YET another emulator?!? 🤣

OK, just kidding 😉

If seriously, I doubt we can improve VSC significantly. AFAIK, it lacks some on-board effects but sounds "about right". As opposite, Munt makes sound "far more right" then VSC's MT emulation mode 😉 And I even don't begin ado about the speed 😒

Reply 111 of 964, by ponytear

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Well, there have been so many new versions of the emulator these days that I feel somewhat lost...

Anyway, I have tested the latest mt32emu.exe. It adds a few improvements in Kyrandia 2 (The Hand of Fate) and Leisure Suit Larry 3 (now, the little sound effects from the music at the beginning of the game seem to play properly). The downside is audible overdrive on some tunes, as mentioned. It's not a problem in games like Kyrandia 2 where I can control the volume in the game and get rid of it. But 4D Sports Driving/Stunts has overdrive, even with the Master Volume at 10 in the mt32 window.
The music in 4D Sports Driving sounds a little different, I prefer the 22/03 version of mt32emu, that seems to give a kind of softness to the sound.
My other test games seem to sound fine (Kyrandia, Budokan).
There seems to be more overdrive in ScummVM than in DOSBox.

I have also tested ykhwong's builds from 20/03, 24/03 & 04/04. I don't know the differences with mt32emu.exe, but these three builds sound different, and not as good to my ears. 24/03 & 04/04 are closer in sound to mt32emu, but still very different.
The 04/04 build is almost unusable because most tunes are overdriving, which is a problem for games without volume control (Budokan, 4D Sports Driving). My favourite is the 24/03 build (no overdrive, closer to mt32emu), but I still prefer mt32emu.exe.

I don't know if it's interesting for me for pointing out some weird thing about 4D Sports Driving / Stunts. They're both the same game basically, with the same music, but they sound both different. And the weird thing is the menu music, in which there is a "glissando" part that gets played right or wrong, depending on the circumstances:

- My friend's REAL MT-32 plays the Stunts menu correctly and incorrectly in 4D Sports Driving;
- mt32emu.exe plays 4D Sports Driving correctly and not Stunts (the opposite);
- ykhwong's builds play BOTH correctly!

Anyway, each version sounds great for different things. Overall, my favourite is the 22/03 mt32emu version. I just wish it be possible to control the amount of reverb. 😀

Thanks again for all your hard work! I am amazed by the result.

Reply 112 of 964, by ykhwong

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ponytear wrote:

The 04/04 build is almost unusable because most tunes are overdriving, which is a problem for games without volume control (Budokan, 4D Sports Driving). My favourite is the 24/03 build (no overdrive, closer to mt32emu), but I still prefer mt32emu.exe.

Have you tried "dosbox_run_638e4e1833c834864fcd.7z"?

Reply 114 of 964, by ykhwong

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ponytear wrote:

Have you tried "dosbox_run_638e4e1833c834864fcd.7z"?

Probably not? I downloaded the 04/04 build from http://www.emucr.com. Where can I get this build? Thanks.

From my website: http://ykhwong.x-y.net
There is a significant MUNT patch provided as an optional download.

Reply 116 of 964, by ponytear

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I just tested "dosbox_run_638e4e1833c834864fcd" and it sounds great! It's a significant improvement, indeed. It seems to sound just like mt32emu.exe. 😀 There is just the slight overdrive problem at times (4D Sports Driving, Kyrandia 2), else it's great!

Reply 117 of 964, by KingGuppy

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ponytear wrote:

Well, there have been so many new versions of the emulator these days that I feel somewhat lost...

I just wanted to point out that all these builds are based on the Munt git repository, which is changing rapidly right now. If you don't want to experiment with different versions (though it doesn't necessarily sound like you don't 😀 ) I recommend waiting for the official release of the next version, which should be quite soon.

To give you an idea of the level of confusion, I don't even know what mt32emu.exe is (well, I just now checked, and it's a sergm build, probably of the Win32 driver) 😀

Reply 119 of 964, by Leolo

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sergm wrote:

If seriously, I doubt we can improve VSC significantly. AFAIK, it lacks some on-board effects but sounds "about right". As opposite, Munt makes sound "far more right" then VSC's MT emulation mode 😉 And I even don't begin ado about the speed 😒

Sorry for being offtopic, but: sergm, do you think that VSC still produces the closest sound to a real SC-55 right now?

Is it more faithful than what could be achieved with Fluidsynth and/or SF2 Soundfonts??

I'm currently running the VSTi version of VSC, together with SAVIHost and MIDIYoke. It's a bit complicated to setup, but works correctly under Win7 x64.

Is this the best I can hope for DOS games designed for General MIDI?

PS: I haven't heard a SC-55 in real life, so I don't really know what's better (I said that VSC doesn't sound like the real thing because of the comparisons made by QuestStudios.com)