VOGONS


First post, by bitslasher

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Hi everyone,

I've posted here before about something like this I think, but wanted to solicit some feedback, or perhaps rally some folks together that are much more talented than I am to maybe make this dream a reality.

So, it's no secret that it's getting more and more difficult to find PSUs for the old computers we lovingly try to keep running. From the PC, XT, AT, and now even the early ATX, this is true. Think losing -5V in ATX was bad, the final nail in the coffin is that new systems will be using a PSU that only produces a 12V output. The main board on these systems will be responsible for any further voltage step-down needed.

Is it possible that we as a community can come together and crowd-fund/crowd-design an open-source PSU design would be suitable to our needs?

My motivation for asking for this is from my recent experience with learning how to repair the PSUs in my aging Compaq Deskpro collection. Those old switching PSUs are quite complex and difficult to troubleshoot/fix. Even after being fixed they are still full of components that are now decades old. Fixing one part doesn't keep another one from failing tomorrow. These things can take other parts of a computer with them when they fail, kind of like a ticking time bomb. Considering how rare and expensive older systems are getting, it seems like now is maybe a good time for the community to pull together and build something we all can use to keep our machines from self-destructing.

Like I mentioned, I'm a beginner/novice at diagnosing and repairing these things. I've realized this is almost a fools errand, since fixing these old PSUs is just kicking the can own the road for a potential destructive failure.

Some conversation-starter ideas for a design:

  • The design would be for a modular circuit board that takes advantage of modern PSU components to make a safer and more reliable supply for our aging systems.
  • The board would replace an existing PSU board in its original case, preserving the look/feel of a computer's period-correct PSU.
  • The completed unit would be as "cubical" as possible, not having a large 2-dimensional footprint (see next points on how that might be possible).
  • Could be placed inside existing PSU cases using a 3d-printed protective housing, or custom adapters could be 3d printed for specific well known PSU case designs, like IBM PC/AT or Antec ATX for example.
  • Imagine the "base" board would provide AC to DC conversion, surge protection, etc. Imagine this as a high-voltage DC power back plane. It should be able to handle the voltage demands that a typical 300W PSU could handle.
  • The base board would have some kind of socket system allowing additional daughter boards to be stacked, to provide the actual power rails. Each layer would convert the high-voltage DC to actual 12, -12, 5, -5, 3.3 volts as needed/desired.
  • Each power rail board would provide the attachment points for external wires to attach. (I'm thinking it'd be nice to use screws like in the pic below.)
  • The idea is have a design that provide for flexibility for adding more rails of a particular voltage, as needed.
  • It would be nice maybe to have "personality" daughter cards that would provide the -5V for older systems, or -3.3V for newer ATX systems. These two voltages I don't think ever crossed paths in the wild. (Almost had a pun there.)
  • The idea is that a person could open up their busted or old PSU, cut some wires, and attach them to the new board using the screw contacts. The PSU would look the same after the retro-fit.

I hope there are at least a few of you out there with the expertise and know-how to help make this possible!

--Cheers

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    Connectors on a 12V PSU found on Amazon
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Reply 1 of 3, by chiveicrook

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On the positive side 12VO standard won't trickle down to "DIY" market for years to come, it's mainly for OEMs who have to comply with environmental restrictions.

IMHO, while the idea of open source PSU is commendable, there are already nice solutions. A few threads ago I saw pictures of somebody using off-the-shelf industrial PSU which fed PicoATX PSU, really nice and clean solution. Generally, I believe that this is the way to go: use off-the-shelf >12V PSU/power brick (including possibly those new 12VO computer PSUs) and use PicoATX and its descendants. Custom solutions are too costly in the end and it's important for retro stuff to use as many mainstream parts as possible to keep barriers to entry to minimum.

EDIT:
Also it's important to mention that dealing with low voltage DC/DC conversions is inherently safer for any amateurs. DIY AC/DC SMPSs are too dangerous to build/modify for an average Joe.

Reply 2 of 3, by Solo761

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That depends on configuration. PicoPSU is OK for 386, 486 and probably pentiums. Especially with adapters that add -5V for those who need it. But it doesn't have enough amps on 5V for pentium 2 and newer configurations.

Reply 3 of 3, by chiveicrook

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Solo761 wrote on 2022-05-16, 08:44:

That depends on configuration. PicoPSU is OK for 386, 486 and probably pentiums. Especially with adapters that add -5V for those who need it. But it doesn't have enough amps on 5V for pentium 2 and newer configurations.

Newer configs can usually use modern ATX PSUs anyway (and by the time these are obsoleted PicoPSU-like adapters will likely reach 500W+ output capacity).
Thus, the only concern is specifically for systems with high current draw on 5V rail. Up to 10Amp PicoPSU-derivatives are available right now (400W ones usually have 10 amps on 5V).
One possibility would be to use two off-the-shelf psus, one with 12V and one with 5V output or a dual output one, a DC/DC 12V-5V PSU could also be used. Feed 12V to picoPSU with removed motherboard 5V lines (pico's 5V would be used only for drives) and use separate output to power 5V on the mobo. Proper voltage rising times would need to be taken care of but most likely a simple passive cable adapter would be enough.

EDIT: I don't know much about picopsus' topologies but maybe paralleling them is a possibility even if a bit wasteful.