bstar wrote on 2022-06-02, 20:21:

I have a late socket 3 machine with an AMD 133 chip in it. It's a really nice industrial (point of sale) machine that has everything but sound integrated. I have a Startech IDE/CF card adapter installed and no other IDE devices connected. It works really well except for when it doesn't. Card is properly detected and configured in the bios.

I'm not sure what causes this, but the drive will simply become inaccessible at times. One way to reproduce this issue reliably is to FTP over some large files... every time I FTP over SIGIL (Doom WAD) the drives becomes inaccessible at a consistent point in the transfer, requiring a power cycle (crtl-alt-del is not enough). If I just clone the file locally it seems to work fine. Something about the larger writes from a different drive/source seems to be part of what triggers this. I thought it might be something to do with the power management, but I tried all of the setting variations yet the issue persists. When I play a game like Front Page Sports Football, after playing or simulating a game, it sometimes can't write the changes.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I'm out of ideas. My CF card is a 32gb Transcend, UDMA 7, 400x, 20. It's formatted to the largest logical drive partitions that DOS allows and is bootable. I have no issues with this card in my 386 with an XTIDE controller card... I can pop this card in and do these operations with zero problems.

For SD to ide, there is software that must be used. Also, 32gb is a lot for a 386, are you using any disk overlay? I have a hunch, maybe there is a buffer that is overflowing when copying large files

Is it using DMA for data transfers? That usually causes all sorts of problems from my experience.

Rikintosh wrote on 2022-06-02, 20:35:

For SD to ide, there is software that must be used. Also, 32gb is a lot for a 386, are you using any disk overlay? I have a hunch, maybe there is a buffer that is overflowing when copying large files

The problem is on my AMD 586. I was just saying my 386's XTIDE works perfectly with the same sd card (so unlikely it's a bad card). That solution (on my 386) doesn't require any software, works out of the box.

I'm not using a disk overlay (I really hate them and it's not necessary in this case). The onboard controller is a pci based one that should have no issues with larger drives (and formatting to DOS' 8.4gb limit). Is it possible the card is just too fast? It's a really fast card made for DSLR cameras.

devius wrote on 2022-06-02, 20:52:

Is it using DMA for data transfers? That usually causes all sorts of problems from my experience.

My bios doesn't have any setting for DMA. The only setting I think might be causing this is the PIO mode, but I have not found conclusive evidence of it yet.

bstar wrote on 2022-06-03, 00:30:

Rikintosh wrote on 2022-06-02, 20:35:

For SD to ide, there is software that must be used. Also, 32gb is a lot for a 386, are you using any disk overlay? I have a hunch, maybe there is a buffer that is overflowing when copying large files

The problem is on my AMD 586. I was just saying my 386's XTIDE works perfectly with the same sd card (so unlikely it's a bad card). That solution (on my 386) doesn't require any software, works out of the box.

I'm not using a disk overlay (I really hate them and it's not necessary in this case). The onboard controller is a pci based one that should have no issues with larger drives (and formatting to DOS' 8.4gb limit). Is it possible the card is just too fast? It's a really fast card made for DSLR cameras.

Have you tried it with another CF card? I think the velocity should be like a wide pipe that holds a lot of water, but if you pour a little water, there should be no problems... Did you also test with a HD?

Rikintosh wrote on 2022-06-03, 00:53:

Have you tried it with another CF card? I think the velocity should be like a wide pipe that holds a lot of water, but if you pour a little water, there should be no problems... Did you also test with a HD?

Every CF card I've tried on this machine has this issue (now that I think about it). 10GB Maxtor drive works fine. Seems to be a CF card only issue, fast or slow.

I would just setup an XTIDE card in this machine and call it a day, but I've never been able to get them working along side a network card and this machine has a network card (as well as a modem) integrated.

bstar wrote on 2022-06-03, 01:03:

I would just setup an XTIDE card in this machine and call it a day, but I've never been able to get them working along side a network card and this machine has a network card (as well as a modem) integrated.

I had problems once with NICs on a 486, and I found that it was relatively easy for the NIC to conflict with any hardware. I managed to solve it after a long time learning about IRQ, DMA, to adjust in bios

Rikintosh wrote on 2022-06-03, 02:31:

bstar wrote on 2022-06-03, 01:03:

I would just setup an XTIDE card in this machine and call it a day, but I've never been able to get them working along side a network card and this machine has a network card (as well as a modem) integrated.

I had problems once with NICs on a 486, and I found that it was relatively easy for the NIC to conflict with any hardware. I managed to solve it after a long time learning about IRQ, DMA, to adjust in bios

If I can't solve the CF card issue, getting an XTIDE card working on this machine without compromising the ne2000 functionality is probably my next best option. The bios has an IRQ assignment order, 10 being the first and I know that is what the ne2000 device is using. I just have to make sure the XTIDE card uses something different and I should be good.

bstar wrote on 2022-06-03, 03:01:

The bios has an IRQ assignment order, 10 being the first and I know that is what the ne2000 device is using. I just have to make sure the XTIDE card uses something different and I should be good.

IRQ is not the problem, port likely is. The (8-bit) XTIDE cards have IRQ disabled by default (and it is better to keep it disabled) and they use low IRQs anyway. Network cards use high IRQs by default. But XTIDE cards can use port 300h by default and that is also default for 3Com NICs and likely others as well. So port conflict is very likely.

But best solution would be to place XUB ROM to NICs boot ROM socket. No conflicts and one ISA slot saved.

aitotat wrote on 2022-06-03, 16:33:

bstar wrote on 2022-06-03, 03:01:

The bios has an IRQ assignment order, 10 being the first and I know that is what the ne2000 device is using. I just have to make sure the XTIDE card uses something different and I should be good.

IRQ is not the problem, port likely is. The (8-bit) XTIDE cards have IRQ disabled by default (and it is better to keep it disabled) and they use low IRQs anyway. Network cards use high IRQs by default. But XTIDE cards can use port 300h by default and that is also default for 3Com NICs and likely others as well. So port conflict is very likely.

But best solution would be to place XUB ROM to NICs boot ROM socket. No conflicts and one ISA slot saved.

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't sure if it was IRQ or port. I just confirmed that the conflict is indeed port 300. I just need to order a usb rom flasher now. 😀

aitotat wrote on 2022-06-03, 16:33:

bstar wrote on 2022-06-03, 03:01:

The bios has an IRQ assignment order, 10 being the first and I know that is what the ne2000 device is using. I just have to make sure the XTIDE card uses something different and I should be good.

IRQ is not the problem, port likely is. The (8-bit) XTIDE cards have IRQ disabled by default (and it is better to keep it disabled) and they use low IRQs anyway. Network cards use high IRQs by default. But XTIDE cards can use port 300h by default and that is also default for 3Com NICs and likely others as well. So port conflict is very likely.

But best solution would be to place XUB ROM to NICs boot ROM socket. No conflicts and one ISA slot saved.

Sorry for going slightly off topic, but can you confirm/verify if this is the correct 8k rom chip for the nic card boot rom approach that won't need any padding/mirroring?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/121677198386?epid=66 … -0AAOSwv0tVfH7q

No, that does not look compatible. You would need 28C64 with 28 pins (that can be flashed with XTIDE) or 27C64 EPROM that needs programmer (and UV eraser).

Does this have pci? If so I would try this. I’ve been pretty happy with it. Much faster than my isa xt-ide

aitotat wrote on 2022-06-04, 05:07:

No, that does not look compatible. You would need 28C64 with 28 pins (that can be flashed with XTIDE) or 27C64 EPROM that needs programmer (and UV eraser).

Thanks, I'm definitely going to go the the programmer/eraser approach because I don't want to overwrite my good EPROM. Is there a reason the part number is different?

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-04, 13:26:

Does this have pci? If so I would try this. I’ve been pretty happy with it. Much faster than my isa xt-ide

The board does support PCI for the integrated devices, but only ISA for expansion cards. Thanks for linking to that, didn't know it was a thing.

bstar wrote on 2022-06-04, 17:31:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-04, 13:26:

Does this have pci? If so I would try this. I’ve been pretty happy with it. Much faster than my isa xt-ide

The board does support PCI for the integrated devices, but only ISA for expansion cards. Thanks for linking to that, didn't know it was a thing.

Oh wow really? So it has pci but only for onboard stuff no expansion ports. Hmmm… that’s wild..

I wonder if you could use a 16-bit ide controller then?

Btw, does this board have a ultimate retro page? If not, add it. It helps us help you when these threads pop up

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-05, 00:18:

Oh wow really? So it has pci but only for onboard stuff no expansion ports. Hmmm… that’s wild.. […]
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bstar wrote on 2022-06-04, 17:31:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-04, 13:26:

Does this have pci? If so I would try this. I’ve been pretty happy with it. Much faster than my isa xt-ide

The board does support PCI for the integrated devices, but only ISA for expansion cards. Thanks for linking to that, didn't know it was a thing.

Oh wow really? So it has pci but only for onboard stuff no expansion ports. Hmmm… that’s wild..

I wonder if you could use a 16-bit ide controller then?

Btw, does this board have a ultimate retro page? If not, add it. It helps us help you when these threads pop up

This is the board:
https://www.ultimateretro.net/en/motherboards/10372

It's specifically designed for industrial "point of sales" machines in the mid 90's. I think it's a bit of a unicorn, but I've had it for 25 years so I never thought anything of it.

On a side note, I don't know what the actual bus for the VGA/NIC/Drive Controller is... I assume it's PCI because it performs like it's PCI.

Hmmm, yeah that’s kinda limiting.

I have an idea,

What about a soundblaster, plug the compact flash into the soundblaster ide, and try using plop to boot to it from another device like gotek, flopy, cd or a second cf on primary ide