As mentioned by W.x above, the first release Roccat Cone mouse is perfect. It also mates fantastically with my Icemat v3 XL from 2004~. Never going to need another mousemat.

I’m also convinced that case design “almost” peaked with CoolerMaster ATCS (almost any model, but personally 110 and 111 were the best). Simple, elegant, removable motherboard trays, outstanding quality and good thermals. The only downside is the use of 80mm fans rather than 120mm (for acoustics), but 80mm was order of the day at the time so I don’t hold it against CM for the use of them. Cases since (not just from CoolerMaster) have been a mess, poor build quality, overuse of lighting, etc.

Actually, thinking about it, has any “gaming focussed/branded” computing product added anything useful or even tasteful?

I still use my Cooler Master Elite 332 ( Midtower case ) from was it 2009 ?
CM did nice PC cases.
Sheet metal is just too thin in modern cases. You could sit on top of old PC cases and they would withstand your weight without bulking.

Oh and my brother has a Cooler Master Stacker 830 from 2006 ( Fulltower case).
Big aluminium chunk. I mean holy jesus it is large.

Most modern cases are utter trash unless you want to spend a bunch... Then again, most older cases were trash as well.

Personally, I really like Lian-Li cases and have been using / reusing them for my personal new machine builds for at least 10 years. I had gotten tired of all the trash plastic and horrid thin metal and stupid design overall.

There are a few other brands that good cases but for the actual good ones, you are going to be spending quite a lot if you buy new.

user33331 wrote on 2022-07-01, 05:34:

Sheet metal is just too thin in modern cases. You could sit on top of old PC cases and they would withstand your weight without bulking.

I like those too. I have a Yeong Yang YY-5250 for my PII build and it's built like a tank. I can stand on top of it with my ~87kg.
Problem is, many these old cases aren't designed to house a 100W+ CPU with a 300W+ GPU so they aren't always a good choice for modern components without modding. Maybe modding for liquid cooling makes the least amount of damage, but I don't see liquid cooling as a viable option for myself.

Call me a heretic, but even though I love my retro gear, I can't think of a single thing that can't be done at least as well by modern hardware, pragmatically speaking.

I mean, I see it a bit like why some people keep enjoying vinyl records. Given the fact that either high quality analogue R2R tape or digital recordings will be closer quantifiably closer to a studio master (analogue or digital) than a vinyl pressing can ever hope to be, why do people want to deal with vinyl's limited dynamic, noise, susceptibility to dust, etc ? Likely because of nostalgia, appreciation for the specific sonic signature that results from the constraints of having to master for the format, the inherent tweakability of the process, etc . (EDIT: Full disclosure, I am not really much into vinyl currently, so maybe I'm missing the point in part or in whole).

I can fire up DOSBox on practically any decent modern machine with an X2GS connected and with Munt installed and get a more fluid experience in Doom, Space Quest III, etc and get better fidelity sound and music than on "period correct" or at least baremetal compatible hardware, but that's not (usually) the experience I am looking for. I could also play an "enhanced" source port with higher resolution, etc or sometimes a modern remake (if available), but I don't (usually) want that either.

Sometimes, I will appreciate having access to Munt running on a Pi, an X2GS, emulators, overkill hardware for running old software, an Orpheus sound card and whatever modernish niceties my fickle mind desires (and my wallet can afford).

To try answer the original question, the only thing that is not "better" in modern hardware is the lack of variety and oddball experiments in mainstream PC computing hardware. Everything is getting commoditized and mass market. Sound cards are mostly DACs and differ only in output specs, video card chipsets come from 3 companies, CPU upgrades accross more than one or 2 gens are a thing of the past (as are weird and wonderful things from the likes of PowerLeap, etc).

So, in other words, everything is now "better", but a lot of the fun and quirkiness of old is gone and likely won't be back, ever, at least on the hardware front.

It is about: ergonomics, construction, visuals, muscle memory and such:
Like the modern equivalent today for good gaming mouses of past: MX1000, G5, G500,... is
- Logitech G MX518 Legendary. ( MXmaster: 1,2s does not have same ergonomics.) [Also similar MS pro intellimouse SE.]

Which yes has the same outer dimensions as originals but surfaces and weight are different.
MX518 Legendary/Hero feels like a cheaper more watered down plastic version of the originals which it is.

darry wrote on 2022-07-01, 06:23:

(EDIT: Full disclosure, I am not really much into vinyl currently, so maybe I'm missing the point in part or in whole).

Compared to the lifetime of a vinyl record all digital storage media are extremely short lived.

darry wrote on 2022-07-01, 06:23:

Call me a heretic, but even though I love my retro gear, I can't think of a single thing that can't be done at least as well by modern hardware, pragmatically speaking.

as a rule i think you are right.

the difference often is not in functionality but in build quality and there it is because often you need to buy at the high end to get the equivalent for a fair comparison

don't think only prices, think price as a proportion of average salary - pretty much everything used to cost more as a proportion of salary (some exceptions i'm sure)

majestyk wrote on 2022-07-01, 07:07:

Compared to the lifetime of a vinyl record all digital storage media are extremely short lived.

is that vinyl's storage lifetime compared to a single SSD ?

makes sense - but would be interested in comparison in years, i've seen estimates of 500 years online

in practice the data itself is backed up multiple times onto new storage devices and so potentially exists as long as storage devices exist

The major difference between new hardware and say a 486 system from back in the day is maintenance and reliability.

You could run an old 486 all day for a decade and not have to clean anything or redo CPU and GPU heatsinks. Even on a hot day with a clogged fan the 486 would just chug along. I don't think modern systems would get away with that.

Some old cases were made of heavy duty steel and you could sit on them without breaking them (we were not as fat back then either so mileage may vary). But the same cases had no cable management, filters, IDE cables blocked airflow, and you were lucky to have one 80mm fan blowing in and all the heat going out the PSU fan. There have always been cheap computer cases which is why people still look for those old Inwin and Enlight cases from the 90's.

You also have much less of a choice for components these days which sucks.

Oetker wrote on 2022-06-30, 21:36:

I would say Model M keyboard, but mine broke and I ended up liking a cheap Cherry Blue based board better.
I don't think CRT monitors count, they might be best for retro gaming, but not for daily usage. I feel like my SC-55 doesn't have a completely satisfactory modern replacement but I don't use it instead of Spotify or YouTube to listen to music.

Unicomp makes new Model M keyboards.

I was thinking MA-12C, because they sound good and are well shielded compared to modern ones I have, but I cant say I have tested all modern ones to know for sure if there are modern equivalents when it comes to size, shielding and sound quality.

timw4mail wrote on 2022-07-01, 14:40:

Oetker wrote on 2022-06-30, 21:36:

I would say Model M keyboard, but mine broke and I ended up liking a cheap Cherry Blue based board better.
I don't think CRT monitors count, they might be best for retro gaming, but not for daily usage. I feel like my SC-55 doesn't have a completely satisfactory modern replacement but I don't use it instead of Spotify or YouTube to listen to music.

Unicomp makes new Model M keyboards.

I bought one of those, I could get one from a local shop instead of importing it from the US (to fix my Model M I would have had to import a new membrane and bolt-mod it). It's not their latest model but the one they've had available for a while. The casing is creaky and inconsistent in color, I also find the typing to be rather too stiff, maybe I was used to my old Model M being broken in. So all in all I didn't like it.

Oetker wrote on 2022-07-01, 18:05:

[...]

I bought one of those, I could get one from a local shop instead of importing it from the US (to fix my Model M I would have had to import a new membrane and bolt-mod it). It's not their latest model but the one they've had available for a while. The casing is creaky and inconsistent in color, I also find the typing to be rather too stiff, maybe I was used to my old Model M being broken in. So all in all I didn't like it.

Have to second that. I'm afraid. Every generation of the Model M was cheaper and less solidly made than the previous, and I've tried two Unicomp boards and neither even come close to the last Lexmark models. Machine tolerances are lower, components seem thinner and rougher (and yes, I had a brand-new 2nd gen back in 1989, so I'm not just comparing 35 years of wear to new), as if they are literally using the same tooling instead of replacing moulds when worn. Also the boards are much lighter and therefore noisier.

Unicomp has probably the best customer service I have ever experienced - inside or outside of the computer business - so I really want to be nice to them, but I really can't recommend them beyond a source of spares for older IBM boards, I'm afraid.

The new replica Model F production run is a different matter entirely - everything that was good about the F, but now with a modern layout in a non-oversized (but still epicly solid and heavy) case. Not a fair comparison with Unicomp's Ms though; had to wait over a year for mine and it cost four times as much as a new M. Worth every penny though.

majestyk wrote on 2022-07-01, 07:07:

darry wrote on 2022-07-01, 06:23:

(EDIT: Full disclosure, I am not really much into vinyl currently, so maybe I'm missing the point in part or in whole).

Compared to the lifetime of a vinyl record all digital storage media are extremely short lived.

Fell free to correct my if I am wrong .

+ A well stored vinyl record can last a very long time indeed (practically forever)
- Vinyl records are susceptible to damage by heat or bad storage conditions (warping), etc
- Vinyl records are susceptible to damage by wear over time when played back (especially if a worn stylus and/or too much tracking force is applied)
- Vinyl records and all analogue media cannot be archived without some degree of generation loss onto another analogue medium
+ However, a record player is an inherently simple device, so constructing one from scratch in the far flung future based on analysis of preserved records would be relatively easy

- Digital media are susceptible to damage by heat or bad storage conditions, etc
+ Digital media meant for long term archival (M-DISC optical media, kevlar perforated tape, etc) do exist that are quite resilient to adverse storage conditions
+ Digital DATA can be backup/archived losslessly onto multiple media infinitely with no generation loss, additionally checksums and ECC can be used to guard against degradation.
- Digital storage media are complex devices and require complex and often fragile machines to retrieve data . So constructing such a machine from scratch in the far flung future based on analysis of preserved digital storage media would be relatively difficult

At the end of the day, nothing physical is indestructible, but digital data can replicated to redundant storage media and preserved/transferred indefinitely.

If the idea is to safeguard music against cataclysmic, civilization destroying events, the focus should be on using storage media that is both resilient and easily readable/retrievable.

The choice is then between an analogue and a digital format . A simple direct coupled analogue format like what is used on an LP (there are complex ones, like the helical scanning + heterodyning on VHS tape, for example that increase stoarge density) favors accessibility while a digital format is more complex to access, especially if ECC and lossless data compression are used. Which is better is, IMHO, debatable and will vary depending on specific goals and expectations .

Just my 2 cents worth of an opinion .

CRT montors and my Mitsumi made keyboard will go to the grave with me. Most else has modern equivalence available though direct compatibility can be an issue i.e there isn't any modern DOS games compatible sounds cards (not counting most stuff made here recently, including some of my own, on the grounds that they use old chips and still have old chip performance 🤣).

Flash and other trapped charges based media will bit rot sooner than later, those charges will leak out and you see it already with EPROMs and PAL/GAL chips (and eventually CPLDs and FPGAs or their confguration memories).
Modern cheap triple and quad level cells based solutions have extrapolated cell lifetimes in the order of just years , those controllers do a lot of housekeeping to keep your data from mangling. SLC NOR flash has quoted lifetimes in order of century in most datasheets, but NAND flash only decades at most. Old CF, SD and USB sticks will eventually go corrupt, some may already have seen how their early 2000s USB stick didn't work anymore.

Magnetic media has limited presistence too but it still takes many decades before things become difficult to retrieve reliably, with heat accelerating the process so periodic data juggling to new mediums will become necessary (i.e HDD servo tracks will fade and drive cannot write them itself, only factory can). I have not yet seen a HDD where data has faded but floppies with poorly readable data are pretty common.

Things that physically modify the medium such as vinyl and CD will be more resilent on that regard as long as storage conditions don't allow destruction of the material itself, the data won't fade. Similar to all the carved stones etc., just they take much more effort to degrade, we have examples of information going back milleniums stored on stone 🤣.

Just any 5,25" mfm hard disk will be far better than anything running 5400 or 7200 or 10k rpm.

Indeed, they are far less reliable and terribly slow, but the sweet low noise it makes just won't ever annoy. About any high hissing HDD annoys within minutes. Especially those Maxtors that sound like a grinding machine.

Tiido wrote on 2022-07-06, 04:22:

CRT montors and my Mitsumi made keyboard will go to the grave with me. Most else has modern equivalence available though direct […]
Show full quote

CRT montors and my Mitsumi made keyboard will go to the grave with me. Most else has modern equivalence available though direct compatibility can be an issue i.e there isn't any modern DOS games compatible sounds cards (not counting most stuff made here recently, including some of my own, on the grounds that they use old chips and still have old chip performance 🤣).

Flash and other trapped charges based media will bit rot sooner than later, those charges will leak out and you see it already with EPROMs and PAL/GAL chips (and eventually CPLDs and FPGAs or their confguration memories).
Modern cheap triple and quad level cells based solutions have extrapolated cell lifetimes in the order of just years , those controllers do a lot of housekeeping to keep your data from mangling. SLC NOR flash has quoted lifetimes in order of century in most datasheets, but NAND flash only decades at most. Old CF, SD and USB sticks will eventually go corrupt, some may already have seen how their early 2000s USB stick didn't work anymore.

Magnetic media has limited presistence too but it still takes many decades before things become difficult to retrieve reliably, with heat accelerating the process so periodic data juggling to new mediums will become necessary (i.e HDD servo tracks will fade and drive cannot write them itself, only factory can). I have not yet seen a HDD where data has faded but floppies with poorly readable data are pretty common.

Things that physically modify the medium such as vinyl and CD will be more resilent on that regard as long as storage conditions don't allow destruction of the material itself, the data won't fade. Similar to all the carved stones etc., just they take much more effort to degrade, we have examples of information going back milleniums stored on stone 🤣.

I have to agree with this one well presented too.

user33331 wrote on 2022-07-01, 05:34:

I still use my Cooler Master Elite 332 ( Midtower case ) from was it 2009 ? CM did nice PC cases. Sheet metal is just too thin i […]
Show full quote

I still use my Cooler Master Elite 332 ( Midtower case ) from was it 2009 ?
CM did nice PC cases.
Sheet metal is just too thin in modern cases. You could sit on top of old PC cases and they would withstand your weight without bulking.

Oh and my brother has a Cooler Master Stacker 830 from 2006 ( Fulltower case).
Big aluminium chunk. I mean holy jesus it is large.

i got 2 stacker towers they hold like 10 disks each massive beasts

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-07-01, 01:57:

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-07-01, 01:48:

3D positional audio, particularly as realized by A3D back in the late 90s.

Positional audio seems to have a taken a flying leap backwards over the past couple decades. I keep wondering if we'll ever see a resurgence. I figured VR might rekindle interest in proper positional 3D sound, but given the slow VR adoption my optimism for that has fizzled.

I personally doubt that...cause we would need standard and gamedevs got lazy as a huge sound engine doesnt improve a game as much as GRAPHICS...so its wasted money...no one ever said WOW that sound engine was great did you hear how the game sounds...sad but true..it could add so much to gameplay.
And then we would need better gear and whos left? Creative with bad cards or Asus...if they hadnt drop the market either?

Also lets not forget that Microsoft has changed how the audio system works in windows which now prevents practically any add on card from working right.
Essentially all they want is the codec portion with the audio engine software via CPU. This allows the privacy of the Audio firewall preventing the MIC and such.

see we had creative with the EAX, Aureal with the A3D, then there were cards by Hercules (Fotissimo range), and other cheapo ones based off C-Media but! all in essence were great add-in sound cards. They definitely did alot for not only producing great sound but expanding while also offloading from the CPU.

I loved hearing music pushed to the max, especially UT99's tunes. loved the little apps they gave .

Right now, there are three options for reviving old-school 3D audio. XAudio2 in Windows is a one-size fits all solution that requires devs to lay some pipe in order to use and it is the replacement for DirectSound. It allows you to use CPU resources to mix audio in Windows and have access to spatial processing and whatnot. Then you have two proprietary hardware-accelerated solutions, AMD's TrueAudio and Nvidia's VRWorks, both of which are geared towards VR headsets (essentially, headphones/gaming headsets too) and they use actual 3D data, ala Aureal's much-beloved A3D. Those will use the GPU shaders in conjunction with the 3D rendering data already being fed into the GPU, to achieve 3D sound and have access to full DSP functions via the DSPs now built into GPUs. Intel hasn't had any 3D audio since off-loading their audio holdings after Vista came out, but I expect them to have something cooked up with the upcoming ARC/Xe GPUs, though I don't expect to hear anything about that until next year, at the earliest. At this point, we know that it's cheaper/easier for the gaming industry to simply stick with the low-quality software mixer options that have become dominant since Windows Vista and the long-standing and ever-present sound processing gimmicks built into the DSPs/USB sound chips used in gaming headsets.