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What GPU for P3s 1.4GHz

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First post, by haker120

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I ordered Pentium 3s 1.4GHz, and I'm not sure what GPU, from these I own, I should put in there.

Motherboard is (hopefully compatible and will be fixed, if not I'd have to hunt for compatible one xD) DFI CS62-TC. The rest of components I plan to use: SB Live! 0100 with SBEmu, 512MB RAM in one (if compatible) or 2x256MB sticks same producent. 350W Fortron and I guess that's it for Win98SE or ME machine.

GPUs I own for this are:
Axle GeForce FX 5500 256 MB AGP and PCI (that doesn't work with S7 motherboard due to misleading 'universal' PCI port)
Ati Sapphire Radeon 9550
Ati Sapphire Radeon 9600
GeForce 4 4200Ti 128MB

Or something better/different?

Reply 1 of 31, by dionb

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I really like the GF4Ti-4200, so use that on my P3-1400S. It's slightly overpowered for the CPU, but put another way: it doesn't bottleneck it.

The added value of DX9 is minimal with this CPU.

Reply 2 of 31, by Cosmic

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I agree the GeForce 4 Ti 4200 is ideal for this setup. I have a similar rig I'm working on, 1.4 GHz Tualatin Celeron with 256k L2 and 512MB RAM as tight as it'll go. Sounds like you have the full 512K cache which is awesome. With a Quadro4 700XGL I notice the CPU is a bottleneck. Bumping up the resolution or quality settings in Unreal 03 and 04 yields a similar FPS with 6 bots, so it's very CPU limited. 12 bots and the game crawls, it's not the GPU. I plan to try a 512K P3 soon so hopefully I can make some new observations regarding multiplier, FSB, and L2 cache.

I also tried an MSI GeForce FX5500. It has more video memory but fewer transistors. It performed similarly to the 700XGL but the XGL beats it in every benchmark despite being a bit older and with only 64MB of video memory. I think the transistor count is having a big effect here. It'll run Half Life 2 but poorly (~10-20 FPS in many areas), not very playable, but cool to see it running on such hardware.

Reply 3 of 31, by andre_6

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I use a Radeon 9600 Pro in my WinME PIII-S 1.4Ghz build, love it, perfect for Win9x games and up to 2003/4. Had a FX5600 Ultra but the Radeon brings it up considerably.

If you have some spare change I would suggest an Audigy 2 instead of the Live!, Live! cards are good and cheap but the drivers are just atrocious, no matter the card revisions or driver versions, which is a shame really. You could use JosephJoestar's guide to use Audigy drivers with it but honestly just save yourself the hassle and get the superior card if you can

Reply 4 of 31, by TrashPanda

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I use a 64Mb Geforce 3 Ti500, its a nice card but not suited to a more powerful CPU so the P3 1.4s fits it well, the Ti4200 is also a nice option. If you OC the 1.4 to 1.6 the Ti4200 fits it even better.

Reply 6 of 31, by haker120

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The thing with sound card is I want any compatibility with Sound Blaster and SBEmu seems to fit my need, however I own one unused SB Audigy 2 ZS and I know it has good 3D music but unsure about DOS sound compatibility.

As for GeForce 4 4200Ti I have 3, one 128MB (that glitches in different mobo as set 800x600 in games while everything is perfect at 640x480 and 1024x768 so I guess drivers?)

And I guess FX5500 AGP is a nice card but RAM doesn't make it great. 😁

So I'm honestly lost again. 🤣 I always dreamt about having the best P3 retro PC and now I have a chance to build one. Processor on the way, motherboard hopefully will be fixed, the rest of parts I own but still, seems GF4 or Sapphire Radeon 9600 not pro fit. I have yet Voodoo 3 3000 but I have different build with V3 3500 so I didn't listed it. 😀

Reply 7 of 31, by dj_pirtu

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Perfect DOS compatibility: ISA sound card, but because there's no ISA bus on that mobo...
99,9% perfect: ESS SOLO-1 PCI.

Audigy2ZS is really good card in Windows 9x and XP but DOS compatibility sucks so you really need ESS SOLO-1 PCI.

https://www.philscomputerlab.com/ess-es1938s-solo-1.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e14dFZWi2eI

Reply 8 of 31, by haker120

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I have 4 or 5 various SOLO-1s but none of them fitted my needs, maybe due to chipset in different motherboards? Is this one different? It doesn't have SB-Link, so still why not SB Live! With SBEmu? 😁

Reply 12 of 31, by shevalier

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haker120 wrote on 2023-04-24, 18:40:

Ati Sapphire Radeon 9600

This.
I have 9800XT, and this card demonstrate no increase performance, when I change platform from P3-S 1.13Ghz to Athlon64 3000+.
But 9600 is not "card", it's big family. Till 64bit "SE" to highly overclocked "XT" (with temp & fan monitoring).

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 15 of 31, by Standard Def Steve

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GeForce 4 Ti 4200 release date: Feb 6th, 2002
Pentium III-S 1400 release date: January 8th 2002

I do believe that's all you need to know. 😉

94 MHz NEC VR4300 | SGI Reality CoPro | 8MB RDRAM | Each game gets its own SSD - nooice!

Reply 16 of 31, by andre_6

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While waiting on your exact model, what I can say is that the 9600 Pro really brings that extra smoothness in games like Mafia or GTA III that my FX5600 Ultra just couldn't provide, I felt it immediately after switching cards, but still felt adequately "from the era" if it makes any sense. Maybe the Geforce 4Ti 4200 will compare better but you'll certainly need some extra oomph to go on from 2002 forwards or it will be noticeable.

As for sound, if you already have an Audigy 2ZS and if you'll end up playing some later DOS games occasionally in this build (like Doom, Duke 3D, etc, the usual suspects) then you already have the perfect card for that hardware config IMO. SB Emulation won't be any different from the Live! cards (maybe someone can prove this wrong), just install the .vxd driver and you're all set. And while being similar for SB Emu, in Win9x games the Audigy 2 ZS is way superior. I think it's perfectly acceptable or even good for most newcomers to occasional DOS games, here's a 2 EX (same SB Emu):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODfUjEMgB7Q

In general, most people here are from a certain age upwards and tend to give much more importance to early to later DOS games, especially regarding sound, as they remember a specific card at the time that they had and are very used to a certain chip sound for example. I played most games as a kid at the time through PC speaker so a lot of them just sound weird to me in any other way. I think you could use what you have and check the SB emulation out, either from the Live! or the Audigy 2ZS, I think you'll be more than happy with it. Plus if you'd want to give full emphasis on DOS games you wouldn't build a Tualatin PC.

I'm curious if there is a 1.4Ghz Tualatin compatible board with an ISA slot, I imagine it would be very expensive nowadays.

The thing about Live! cards is that Creative just plain bailed on the drivers, which is weird because the hardware is clearly well made. I have had multiple revisions of Live cards in multiple builds with various OS, and between signal noise, purity and even output level issues on different quality speakers, they're just not worth it. On my Win98SE PC every single Live driver version I tried was what was keeping the pc from soft restarting in Windows, freezing in the shutdown screen! I only found this out years later, people kindly pointed out it probably was nusb to blame but nope, confirmed. After years dealing with the issues above, a simple Audigy 2 solved everything in 5 minutes, and with better quality to boot. Such a waste of potential, the Live! cards are very affordable and plentiful and could be an excellent bridge between the 90s and 2000s gaming, but oh well.

I love the later 1990s - 2004 era of games and there's just something special seeing the Pentium III platform at its peak. Tried WinME with my 1.4 Ghz Tualatin build and I just love it. Recently built another similar one to make it a multimedia build also. Installed some quality CD writers to make it my CD burning station and routed the sound from the Audigy EX's external panel to my cassette deck so I can record some playlists quickly and easily. Some musical styles and eras just sound "better" to me through cassette 🤣.

Sorry for the long reply, I just really like this topic!

Last edited by andre_6 on 2023-04-25, 16:44. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 17 of 31, by zyga64

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st31276a wrote on 2023-04-25, 11:30:

I would put the GF4.

For Creative emu10k-based sound cards on windows I prefer kX audio driver.

IMHO kX audio driver is for musicians/audiophiles (DSP, ASIO etc.), it doesn't support hardware acceleration nor EAX .
For gamers, I would recommend drivers from Creative.

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
3) i430FX /K6-2@400 /64M /Rage Pro PCI /ES1370+YMF718
4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 18 of 31, by shevalier

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andre_6 wrote on 2023-04-25, 16:16:

While waiting on your exact model, what I can say is that the 9600 Pro really brings that extra smoothness in games like Mafia or GTA III that my FX5600 Ultra just couldn't provide

A good overclockable model like Sapphire Atlantis RADEON 9600 XT FireBlade or GeXcube Radeon 9600XT Extreme (Google picture, awesome card) is equal to FX5700Ultra.
But a good 9600Pro sample with 2.8-3.3 nS memory can be overclocked to Pro frequencies.
Mod Pro in XT is also simple. You need to re-solder 1 resistor to the GPU, or break off and draw a jumper.
On the selection of memory timings, you can kill a week)))

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 19 of 31, by andre_6

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shevalier wrote on 2023-04-25, 16:38:
A good overclockable model like Sapphire Atlantis RADEON 9600 XT FireBlade or GeXcube Radeon 9600XT Extreme (Google picture, awe […]
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andre_6 wrote on 2023-04-25, 16:16:

While waiting on your exact model, what I can say is that the 9600 Pro really brings that extra smoothness in games like Mafia or GTA III that my FX5600 Ultra just couldn't provide

A good overclockable model like Sapphire Atlantis RADEON 9600 XT FireBlade or GeXcube Radeon 9600XT Extreme (Google picture, awesome card) is equal to FX5700Ultra.
But a good 9600Pro sample with 2.8-3.3 nS memory can be overclocked to Pro frequencies.
Mod Pro in XT is also simple. You need to re-solder 1 resistor to the GPU, or break off and draw a jumper.
On the selection of memory timings, you can kill a week)))

Thanks for the info, interesting, I have a 9600XT with a Zalman cooler (don't remember the brand) that I'm yet to check out, curious to see the performance difference vs. the 9600 Pro