VOGONS


First post, by mac57mac57

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I have been working on an older 286 AT system which I acquired on eBay: an NEC PowerMate 286. I have posted several times previously about my efforts to restore this machine. I am happy to report that it is now fully up and running and in use for its originally intended purpose, which was to provide an older, slower and EGA/CGA test bed for my DOS VE text editor (see www.inverary.net/ve).

Along the way, looking to gain some UMBs for the system, I purchased a TexElec LoTech 1MB RAM card (https://texelec.com/product/lo-tech-1mb-ram/). This is an 8-bit ISA RAM card with 1 MB total on it, controlled by 16 DIP switches. Turn a DIP switch on and the associated 64KB bank of RAM is enabled. With 1 MB total on the card, the entire address space of an 8088/8086 based XT class machine is covered. With 16 DIP switches, you can enable RAM at any 64 KB boundary you want and use it. This sounded appealing to me. I had free 64 KB ranges in these machines and wanted to place RAM into them for use as UMBs. After much searching around, I came upon TexElec and their LoTech 1 MB RAM card.

Lo-tech-1MB-RAM-Key-Front.png
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This is an 8-bit ISA card, and I wanted to use it in a 16-bit 286 AT system, and even more specifically, a 16 bit ISA slot (there are no 8-bit ISA slots on the machine). I wrote TexElec and asked if they thought this would work. Their response was not encouraging... the card was designed for XT-class systems, not AT-class systems and there was no guarantee that it would work in an AT system. Further, if it did, the RAM access times would be horrifically sloooooow - all in all, not recommended. However, after more reading about how 8 bit ISA accesses work on a 16-bit ISA busses, along with observing that the system had arrived with an 8-bit ISA card in it, I decided to take the risk. I ordered a LoTech 1 MB RAM card and waited impatiently for it to arrive.

It arrived a week or so ago and I configured it for 128 KB of base RAM (at the time, it only had 512 KB of lower RAM - this brought it up to 640 KB) and 64 KB of UMBs at each of A000:0 and D000:0. I coupled that with the UMB_DRVR.SYS UMB driver (available from https://archive.org/details/UMBDR513_ZIP) and fired it up. Instant success! Power up RAM tests found and passed 640 KB of RAM, converted the 64 KB at D000:0 to UMBs and then did something quite unexpected: since the 64 KB intended for UMB at A000:0 was contiguous with the preceding 640 KB of base RAM, it EXTENDED the base ram to 704 KB!

I have used a variety of diagnostic packages to test the RAM on the LoTech board since then. It is solid. I have run software that requires pretty much all of the base RAM and it all has worked cleanly. The accesses to the RAM on the LoTech card must be incredibly slow, but relative to human perception, it does not seem noticeable.

So, the answer to the question "can I use an 8-bit ISA RAM card in a 16-bit 286 AT-class system?" is a resounding "yes". Like all things related to DOS and the PC architecture, your mileage may vary depending on the memory layout of your machines, but in mine, it has worked well and is an amazingly useful solution. I only wish that a 16-bit equivalent of this card existed!

Reply 1 of 5, by Jo22

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Thank you very much for your report! 😃👍

The result is what I had expected for years, but most users perhaps didn't agree with me.

Personally, I think this 1 MB card is most useful for providing real UMBs in the 640 to 1MB space.

Drivers and TSRs can easily be placed their and don't impact performance so much, because they're so tiny:
A complete 64KB segment is accessible by the 286 CPU and DMA controller in one pass, essentially, I believe.

Oh and I also agree with what you said about a 16-Bit UMB card.
It's definitely useful to 286 owners and lovers of Real-Mode DOS on later systems.
It could be even useful for Pentium owners, because PCI Shadow Memory (UMBPCI) isn't perfect.
DMA transfers as used by CD-ROM drivers or HDD/Floppy caches may not properly work with that.
A physical UMB card by comparison is fully compatible.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 2 of 5, by Horun

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Yes, That is good news.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 3 of 5, by Jo22

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mac57mac57, can I ask you a little favor?

Since most users here are gamers,
could you please run "3D Benchmark" 1.0C without and with the UMB card being installed (+a driver/TSR loaded into UMB) ?
- Next time, I mean. I don't mean to stress you in any way. It's not urgent, either.

It's this benchmark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F3JU0WHkqY

I'm asking, because many gamers here are concerned about 8-Bit ISA access slowing down their VGA cards using 16-Bit ISA.
In reality, it shouldn't be that bad, but I can't confirm this myself. 😔

My 1MB Lotech board isn't assembled yet and my vintage UMB card must be rewired with a soldering iron.

That's why I'm asking. Again, it's not urgent. Maybe within in a few weeks or months?

Best regards,
Jo22

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 4 of 5, by mac57mac57

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Hello Jo22, my apologies for the delay in getting back to you. Yes, I would be happy to do this and report back the results. I see from the YouTube that I need to find, download and run 3DBENCH.EXE. Before I do so online, is there a specific site you would prefer me to get this from, and perhaps a specific version of 3DBENCH.EXE to use? Thanks!

Reply 5 of 5, by mkarcher

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Jo22 wrote on 2023-05-11, 00:09:

I'm asking, because many gamers here are concerned about 8-Bit ISA access slowing down their VGA cards using 16-Bit ISA.
In reality, it shouldn't be that bad, but I can't confirm this myself. 😔

There is an issue with 8-bit / 16-bit combination on the ISA bus. To get zero waitstate 16-bit access working reliably, you need to identify the target address range as 16-bit capable before the full address is known. A 16-bit VGA must not indicate 16-bit capability if that card can't be sure that the access is indeed targetting the VGA card.

At the point the decision for 16-bit capability needs to be done, only the address bits A17-A23 are available, i.e. you only know which 128KB window is targetted, but not the address within that window. As long as you don't have an MDA/Hercules card installed, the A000-BFFF window is completely owned by the VGA card and there is no issue with signalling 16-bit capability within that window. The VGA BIOS is a different piece of cake, though. If you want to indicate 16-bit capability on C000-C7FF, you have to claim 16-bit capability on C000-DFFF, causing problems for any 8-bit card that has ROM or RAM in that range.

Most 16-bit VGA can toggle 16-bit access to the BIOS (if supported at all) and 16-bit access to the video RAM separately. BIOS performance might be degraded when you install 8-bit cards that prohibit 16-bit access to the video BIOS, but video memory performance should stay high as long as you don't add a 8-bit MDA/Hercules card, or a UMB card at B000-B7FF