> I've also struggled using my SC-55 with DOOM, as it always goes to the AWE synth

What options are you sending to aweutil?

General advice...create 2-3 1GB partitions at the start of the hard disk. Install DOS6.2 on the first one. Then install Win98 on the last partition, being the remaining space. The other 1GB partitions can be Data disks for MSDOS, so you can easily re-install DOS by wiping the first partition. You can then configure Win98 boot menu to boot to either.

kolderman wrote on 2023-06-09, 01:00:

> I've also struggled using my SC-55 with DOOM, as it always goes to the AWE synth

What options are you sending to aweutil?

I don't think I've actually used aweutil before. I'm rather new when it comes to figuring out and using my AWE32 card, which I only got last year, and have mostly only used under Windows. Seeing as you've mentioned it, I reckon it's a pretty important program to configure correctly?

kolderman wrote on 2023-06-09, 01:00:

General advice...create 2-3 1GB partitions at the start of the hard disk. Install DOS6.2 on the first one. Then install Win98 on the last partition, being the remaining space. The other 1GB partitions can be Data disks for MSDOS, so you can easily re-install DOS by wiping the first partition. You can then configure Win98 boot menu to boot to either.

Huh, gotcha. I already bought a 64GB CF Card for Windows 98, and a 2GB CF Card for DOS, since the CF card adapter I bought mounts at the front of the case, but this is useful advice to know for the future, regardless. Thanks!

Shadic95 wrote on 2023-06-09, 01:08:

kolderman wrote on 2023-06-09, 01:00:

> I've also struggled using my SC-55 with DOOM, as it always goes to the AWE synth

What options are you sending to aweutil?

I don't think I've actually used aweutil before. I'm rather new when it comes to figuring out and using my AWE32 card, which I only got last year, and have mostly only used under Windows. Seeing as you've mentioned it, I reckon it's a pretty important program to configure correctly?

The AWE32 wont do much of anything if not initialized with aweutil and CTCM (for 3980 I think its necesssary). This is a PnP card that can be more tricky to configure. But AWEUTIL is how you tell it you use AWE midi or send the output to the SC55.

kolderman wrote on 2023-06-09, 01:00:

The AWE32 wont do much of anything if not initialized with aweutil and CTCM (for 3980 I think its necesssary). This is a PnP card that can be more tricky to configure. But AWEUTIL is how you tell it you use AWE midi or send the output to the SC55.

Gotcha. Guess I'll have a look into it once I get my CF cards, which should be sometime tomorrow. Thanks for the advice!

Would you have any advice for Floppy Disks or an Install CD that's good for DOS and Windows 3.1 for the AWE32 drivers, per chance?

Also, since I'm here, I think I should mention that I've used Phil's MS-DOS Starter Pack before on this very same machine, but have had hit or miss times for when my mouse would work, with it sometimes working when I select one of the modes, and sometimes not. Anyone know what could cause that, and any changes I might need to make for the Starter Pack to better work on my machine? Or should I look into a different corner for getting DOS working on my machine?

Sorry again for all of the questions. I greatly appreciate any and all help. I'd love to get everything listed from my original post more or less all working, and I figured that if any folk would be able to help, the kind and knowledgeable folk here at VOGONS are probably the only place I can seek out help and advice, on this matter.

Stop using AWEUTIL and the creative drivers entirely they are hot garbage and will only cause you trouble. Since UNISOUND came out they should seriously be considered completely deprecated at this point unless you just like driving yourself crazy for the fun of it haha. For DOS it's the only thing you should be using and the only thing you'll need for an AWE32 (seriously bless be JazeFox for making all of our lives so much easier 🤣).

Stock himem.sys can have issues with that much ram I believe. You may want to switch to something newer like Himemx or Jemmex, other than that should be a fairly straight forward setup. I don't know much about Voodoo 3 cards, do they have good DOS VGA support?

Yes try unisound. then get the "Basic DOS-level utilties for use in Windows95 MS-DOS mode or a Windows 95 Command Prompt only boot." called 95dosapp.exe from here:
https://support.creative.com/Products/Product … e=Sound+Blaster
Extract to a floppy and read the readme.txt first, then Run diagnose.exe to see if the card is working....

FinalJenemba wrote on 2023-06-10, 16:51:

Stop using AWEUTIL and the creative drivers entirely they are hot garbage and will only cause you trouble. Since UNISOUND came out they should seriously be considered completely deprecated at this point unless you just like driving yourself crazy for the fun of it haha. For DOS it's the only thing you should be using and the only thing you'll need for an AWE32 (seriously bless be JazeFox for making all of our lives so much easier 🤣).

I actually never heard of UNISOUND before, wow. I assumed that one should just stick to the Creative drivers only, for DOS. Thanks! Can I add this to my autoexec, and it will just take care of the configuration for me, for the most part, making the DOS Creative drivers unneeded? Also, would this be usable for Windows 3.1 or would I still need some kind of Creative Floppies or CD-ROM for proper sound support in Windows 3.1?

FinalJenemba wrote on 2023-06-10, 16:51:

Stock himem.sys can have issues with that much ram I believe. You may want to switch to something newer like Himemx or Jemmex, other than that should be a fairly straight forward setup.

Would switching to something like himemx break compatibility with Windows 3.1 or any apps? If not, would there be any specific parameters anyone might be able to recommend me for it to work correctly with 128MB of RAM, or would it just work, as is?

FinalJenemba wrote on 2023-06-10, 16:51:

I don't know much about Voodoo 3 cards, do they have good DOS VGA support?

I did some looking around, and found this thread: Does PCI Voodoo3 2000 make sense in a DOS machine?

The consensus seems to be that it should generally work fine, but is "not needed" for a DOS machine. But it's what I have installed, since the main purpose of my machine is to be a Windows 98SE machine, with an extra Compact Flash card for just pure DOS mode.

Horun wrote on 2023-06-10, 17:21:

Yes try unisound. then get the "Basic DOS-level utilties for use in Windows95 MS-DOS mode or a Windows 95 Command Prompt only boot." called 95dosapp.exe from here:
https://support.creative.com/Products/Product … e=Sound+Blaster
Extract to a floppy and read the readme.txt first, then Run diagnose.exe to see if the card is working....

Oh, handy! I think I might have used a variation of this for when I was doing a lossless recording of the Dance demo song for the AWE Synthesis. Thanks for the link!

Thanks again for all of the suggestions! If the different memory manager and UNISOUND can be fitted into Phil's MS-DOS Starter Pack (which I like for conveniece, since I can choose which memory settings I want, and it comes with a CD driver, and mouse driver), and work with Windows 3.1, then I think I'll look into both.

Are you running Windows 3.1 or Windows for Workgroups 3.11? Despite the name, it comes with other features such as a 32-bit file system and can have TCP/IP+ethernet installed with an addon from Microsoft, and is what pre-Win95 Pentium 75s and 486DX4s actually shipped with along with DOS 6.x.

I don't think you will have issues with 128MB. I have an ESA-486 industrial board that comes with 128MB, and it runs DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1 fine. I think only 64MB is accessible from plain DOS XMS applications though.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2023-06-11, 01:48:

Are you running Windows 3.1 or Windows for Workgroups 3.11? Despite the name, it comes with other features such as a 32-bit file system and can have TCP/IP+ethernet installed with an addon from Microsoft, and is what pre-Win95 Pentium 75s and 486DX4s actually shipped with along with DOS 6.x.

I checked my Floppy Disks, and they say Microsoft Windows Version 3.1. I don't have a huge need for TCP/IP out of the box, since I mostly want to use a serial modem (model mentioned in my initial post), and also because this is the copy I found and was allowed to keep from my Middle School, so it has some sentimental value, since that school died some years ago.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2023-06-11, 01:48:

I don't think you will have issues with 128MB. I have an ESA-486 industrial board that comes with 128MB, and it runs DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1 fine. I think only 64MB is accessible from plain DOS XMS applications though.

Ah, I see. I don't imagine I'd be doing very much that needs so much RAM (I was mostly worried about if all of the options within Phil's DOS Starter pack would work with how much RAM I have), so I think I should be fine with using the default himem? Unless there's a good reason to replace it with something else.

Shadic95 wrote on 2023-06-11, 03:09:

Ah, I see. I don't imagine I'd be doing very much that needs so much RAM (I was mostly worried about if all of the options within Phil's DOS Starter pack would work with how much RAM I have), so I think I should be fine with using the default himem? Unless there's a good reason to replace it with something else.

Some games might not work with "too much" RAM, I do know a base DOS+Windows 3.x will work with your configuration though.

Shadic95 wrote on 2023-06-11, 03:09:

Ah, I see. I don't imagine I'd be doing very much that needs so much RAM (I was mostly worried about if all of the options within Phil's DOS Starter pack would work with how much RAM I have), so I think I should be fine with using the default himem? Unless there's a good reason to replace it with something else.

I actually use both. Like you mention I have had issues with Win 3.1 not wanting to boot with anything other than the stock memory managers. But for pure DOS mode there are games I like to play that need allot of free conventional memory. And HIMEMX simply does a better job of freeing up that conventional memory for me. So in my boot menu I have options for me different DOS modes and then a windows 3.1 option that loads the stock managers. Phil's starter pack is nice, but honestly its worth learning how the boot menu works and making your own, it's really pretty simple. Every computer is different and will need its own tweaks.

As for the sound, yes you can load UNISOUND in your autoexec.bat file. It comes with a good readme that goes over how to use it. It will 100% replace all the creative drivers in DOS. You will need a separate driver for windows, when you install that it will probably edit your dos startup files with its own dos driver calls. Just delete those lines.

FinalJenemba wrote on 2023-06-11, 15:49:

I actually use both. Like you mention I have had issues with Win 3.1 not wanting to boot with anything other than the stock memory managers. But for pure DOS mode there are games I like to play that need allot of free conventional memory. And HIMEMX simply does a better job of freeing up that conventional memory for me. So in my boot menu I have options for me different DOS modes and then a windows 3.1 option that loads the stock managers. Phil's starter pack is nice, but honestly its worth learning how the boot menu works and making your own, it's really pretty simple. Every computer is different and will need its own tweaks.

I might try to look into making my own options, then, and mess with HIMEMX, then. Thanks for your advice on the matter!

FinalJenemba wrote on 2023-06-11, 15:49:

As for the sound, yes you can load UNISOUND in your autoexec.bat file. It comes with a good readme that goes over how to use it. It will 100% replace all the creative drivers in DOS. You will need a separate driver for windows, when you install that it will probably edit your dos startup files with its own dos driver calls. Just delete those lines.

Ah, nice. I wasn't sure if I just had to manually load it everytime I turned on my computer. Good to know that I can just have it in my autoexec.bat. Also good to know that I can just get rid of the DOS driver calls, and have it work within Windows, when that software is installed.

Also, since I'm here, I started installing DOS on a 2GB SD Card, to pass the time while I wait for my CF Card IDE Adapter, Cards, and USB Reader, to all come in. It so far seems to work fine, however, it reminded me of the main issue I've always had with this machine, which is the mouse under Windows. The mouse driver being used is Cutemouse, included in the latest version of Phil's MS-DOS Starter Pack, which I grabbed from his website. The mouse does not work under the Setup, nor does it work in Windows, on either Extended or Expanded memory modes. Should I try to look into a different mouse driver, and attempt to modify the config.sys and autoexec.bat files to work around such driver?

For reference, this is the mouse I am using, a Microsoft Intellimouse 1.1A PS/2 Compatible (Yes, I know this image is big. I don't know how to get spoiler code working):

Are you trying to use that mouse in DOS ? It is not really very DOS compatible, that sort of ended with the Microsoft Intellimouse original AFAIK, yours is a v1.1a and is dual mode PS2 and USB which requires special MS drivers iirc.

update: ok I took my XP box and plugged in a intellimouse mouse v1.1a plugged (like yours) into PS2 port and created and booted from a clean Win98 dos boot floppy, loaded dos msmouse v9.01b and ran a dos base mouse test. It worked just fine.
Attached some pictures... My computer is a quad core Q9650 based and it worked just fine even though it technically should not like dos ;p.
So if using the mouse on a ps2 port it should work in win98 dos with proper mouse driver UNLESS you motherboard has an issue (bad mouse port)....or the mouse is bad.

Horun wrote on 2023-06-12, 00:24:

Are you trying to use that mouse in DOS ? It is not really very DOS compatible, that sort of ended with the Microsoft Intellimou […]
Show full quote

Are you trying to use that mouse in DOS ? It is not really very DOS compatible, that sort of ended with the Microsoft Intellimouse original AFAIK, yours is a v1.1a and is dual mode PS2 and USB which requires special MS drivers iirc.

update: ok I took my XP box and plugged in a intellimouse mouse v1.1a plugged (like yours) into PS2 port and created and booted from a clean Win98 dos boot floppy, loaded dos msmouse v9.01b and ran a dos base mouse test. It worked just fine.
Attached some pictures... My computer is a quad core Q9650 based and it worked just fine even though it technically should not like dos ;p.
So if using the mouse on a ps2 port it should work in win98 dos with proper mouse driver UNLESS you motherboard has an issue (bad mouse port)....or the mouse is bad.

I can assure you that using an USB-PS/2 adapter, a Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse v2.0 (Model 1113) is compatible with DOS 6.2 via mouse.com 8.20.

dormcat wrote on 2023-06-12, 02:38:

I can assure you that using an USB-PS/2 adapter, a Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse v2.0 (Model 1113) is compatible with DOS 6.2 via mouse.com 8.20.

Good to know thanks ! I do know certain later model MS mice have an issue with dos but would expect a PS2 type to work w/o a problem unless using wrong driver/bad ps2 port/bad mouse.
Attached my quickly made (winimage) boot disk with a mouse tester tool...if it does not work proper please let me know.

Horun wrote on 2023-06-12, 00:24:

Are you trying to use that mouse in DOS ? It is not really very DOS compatible, that sort of ended with the Microsoft Intellimouse original AFAIK, yours is a v1.1a and is dual mode PS2 and USB which requires special MS drivers iirc.

For what it's worth, the mouse works fine in DOS. It works in edit, and in DOOM. It just isn't working in Windows 3.1. Should I seek out a different mouse, then? I could seek out a Serial mouse, but then I wouldn't be able to connect my Modem, I don't think? Unless an older PS/2 mouse is all I'd need.

Shadic95 wrote on 2023-06-12, 02:56:

Horun wrote on 2023-06-12, 00:24:

Are you trying to use that mouse in DOS ? It is not really very DOS compatible, that sort of ended with the Microsoft Intellimouse original AFAIK, yours is a v1.1a and is dual mode PS2 and USB which requires special MS drivers iirc.

For what it's worth, the mouse works fine in DOS. It works in edit, and in DOOM. It just isn't working in Windows 3.1. Should I seek out a different mouse, then? I could seek out a Serial mouse, but then I wouldn't be able to connect my Modem, I don't think? Unless an older PS/2 mouse is all I'd need.

Whoa... one step at a time. Don't throw babies out with bathwater.

Windows 3.11 uses its own mouse driver, not the DOS one. So you have a working DOS driver and need a working Win3.11 driver for the mouse. PS/2 mice are supported out-of-the-box so it should be as simple as running Windows 3.11 setup and telling it you have a PS/2 mouse.

If you want a serial mouse after all, you need a second serial port to combine that with the modem. Your motherboard has a 9-pin header for that behind the sound/game ports. If it's not hooked up, get a backplate with DE9 connector, insert it into the header and activate COM2 in BIOS. Note that COM2 needs IRQ3 so you can't use IRQ3 for sound cards. Shouldn't be an issue with a single sound card in your system, as you'll most likely be setting that to IRQ5 (or perhaps 7)

I think I'm going to go down the path of having a second Serial port, just to be as compatible as I can be. I checked under Windows Setup, and even Mouse.INI, and it's both set to PS/2, so perhaps there's just some incompatibility there. A shame, but hey, at least this will push me to get something which I wasn't full aware was a thing on my system.

Would this bracket work? I checked my own machine, and high res pictures online, and noticed there is one pin missing, which I don't know if that'd be an issue: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001Y1F0HW/

Not sure about the bracket but you could try this: http://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?file … 9&menustate=0,0
Is the last dated release of the DOS/Win3x Intellipoint 1.1 software (AFAIK). It may cure your Win3.1 problem or not....