Joakim wrote on 2023-08-29, 20:22:You can use a usb floppy drive in windows 10 at least. (Not sure about 11 as I don't have it.)
Got one on the way, so I'll find out soon 😀
strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-29, 20:10:HDD: Stuck in a dock, spins up fine and recognised by partition magic. Of course, I can't really do anything with it on a Windows 11 machine, can't see what's on it. Unsure whether to format it in FAT32 or leave for now incase it still has the OS etc on it.
Am I missing something here? Windows 11 should be able to mount a FAT16 drive (assuming this thing wasn't running OS/2 or Linux or something else with an unusual file system); note that hard drives do not typically automagically show up, you might have to go into "disk management" (which probably hasn't changed since Win2000) and manually assign the partition a drive letter.
Or you can boot the machine with a bootable Linux disk and try to access the partition that way...
VivienM wrote on 2023-08-29, 21:26:strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-29, 20:10:HDD: Stuck in a dock, spins up fine and recognised by partition magic. Of course, I can't really do anything with it on a Windows 11 machine, can't see what's on it. Unsure whether to format it in FAT32 or leave for now incase it still has the OS etc on it.
Am I missing something here? Windows 11 should be able to mount a FAT16 drive (assuming this thing wasn't running OS/2 or Linux or something else with an unusual file system); note that hard drives do not typically automagically show up, you might have to go into "disk management" (which probably hasn't changed since Win2000) and manually assign the partition a drive letter.
Or you can boot the machine with a bootable Linux disk and try to access the partition that way...
I think it's me that was missing something - I misinterpreted an earlier comment about the difficulty of extracting these executables on modern Windows.
With the old boot floppy's, I tried to read them on a Windows 98 machine just to see what was on them, but I got a "disk not formatted/would you like to format error". I take it that means the data on the discs is lost, rather than just the machine not reading them.
I got the same "disk not formatted/would you like to format" dialogue box for the HDD when connected via a dock. I didn't want to format it right away, in case it was just a reading error in Windows 11 but maybe I do need to wipe it and start afresh. I thought there was maybe a chance that the OS and boot sector were still on it.
As for the battery, it came out easily with just a little bit of heat. The damage on the battery is not from me pulling it, but just where it was clamped with surgical clamps to keep it steady (a very handy tool, normally for small blood vessels - small ratchet like miniature mole grips. Also, since they are metal, they take some of the heat away from whatever you are working on). The trickier thing might be finding a like-for-like replacement. I can't seem to find exactly the same. I wondered about using a 2032 cell in a separate holder. Same voltage, though higher Ah, and I can get a rechargeable one - am I likely to run into any problems with this?
strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-30, 19:37:With the old boot floppy's, I tried to read them on a Windows 98 machine just to see what was on them, but I got a "disk not formatted/would you like to format error". I take it that means the data on the discs is lost, rather than just the machine not reading them.
I got the same "disk not formatted/would you like to format" dialogue box for the HDD when connected via a dock. I didn't want to format it right away, in case it was just a reading error in Windows 11 but maybe I do need to wipe it and start afresh. I thought there was maybe a chance that the OS and boot sector were still on it.
Do you know that your floppy drive is good? If you used the floppy drive with other disks last week and it works fine, that's a sign the disk is bad, but... for example, in my case (I'm still new to this world), the two floppy drives I have... I don't think have been used in over a decade. If I plugged them into something and attempted to read a disk tomorrow, who knows if those drives would still work or if the mechanicals in them would be all dried up and stuck...
As for your HDD, I don't know. I wonder if it's possible a really old drive would just be sad with the USB<->PATA controller in your dock... and it's not like a drive that age will have SMART or anything like that.
Small steps. . .
I tracked down a rechargeable CR2032 battery, accepting that as long as the voltage is the same, in creased capacity shouldn't matter. I picked up a CR2023 holder and soldered the wires from the holder to the board, the voltage readings at the board connections look right and. . . the CMOS error has gone!
Trying to make a bootable floppy has been surprisingly difficult (for me). PowerIso seemed to the be way to go, Windows 11 was suspicious, I tried other applications to no avail, went back to an older version of PowerIso and that seemed to work. But, the machine won't boot from it. However, leading to a non-system disc error. However, of the 5 original boot floppies that I'd kept for all of these years, one of them does seem to initiate a different sequence, rather than going to a non-system disc error the machine goes to a blank screen with a blinking cursor. Putting any of the other boot floppies in takes it back to the non-system disc error, so, that one boot disc, I presume, is the closest I have to something that will work.
I'm stuck, again, but at least with far fewer error messages!
How much money are you prepared to throw at this project? I've never used one, but those floppy USB emulator thingies sound like they could help you out big time here. (Although I have not heard of any for PC compatibles that are anywhere near as nice as the FloppyEmu for Macs which even has a big screen on it) I would think one of those would let you take a floppy image that you can confirm boots a VM or PCem and connect it directly to this system and remove a whole bunch of unknowns.
Is it fair to say that you don't really know if i) your floppy drive(s) are bad, ii) your floppy disks are bad, or iii) something else is bad? And you don't have enough 'known good' parts to isolate the issue?
You are doing nice progress!
I’d say that those old floppies are done, they should be visible in your modern PC. They may recover after formatting them, but probably aren’t that reliable anymore. It is difficult to say about the HDD, it should be visible to modern OS, but maybe it has been wiped out and it has no partitions.
So you can get the machine to boot into something, download for example Win 98 boot disk or DOS 6.22 from REMOVED . They have image files for obsolete OSs. You need actually only the first disk for booting if using DOS, rest is needed only if you install it. Download image file and install WinImage on your modern computer. Plug your external USB floppy drive to it and write the first DOS diskette to a known working floppy with WinImage.
With this floppy, try to boot the computer. It should boot to DOS prompt if floppy and drive is working. You can try to run FDISK and see if HDD has any partitions. If not you can create them and hopefully get the HDD running. If you get HDD running, you can copy the Compaq setup diskette exe to HDD, run the exe from there. It is a while since I’ve done that, but to my recollection they run in DOS mode and after it starts extracting, it asks you to insert empty floppy and it writes the setup diskette.
Looking great! I think there are floppy disk emulators you can get if you can't get any floppies working. I haven't used one myself, but they look pretty cool, and it looks like you can get them for as cheap as $30 (search amazon for floppy drive emulator)
I think you need to have the recovery CD in the CD drive at the same time as you have the recovery floppy in the floppy drive, not totally sure though. I have an image of the recovery floppy downloaded from the internet archive. Not sure about the copyright concerns with posting it here, but if you have any difficulty finding it, I can probably link to it on the internet archive.
Thanks so much for all of the advice - I really appreciate it. I've been a bit slow, too many other things going on, but managed to get a bit of time last night to look at it again. Some more progress! I used powerISO to create a new boot floppy from one of the file archives online, and it worked. I had a feeling that the original floppy drive in the machine was causing problems and somehow corrupting data on previous discs I tried because I would write a disc and it would look good on the modern machine, then I'd test it in the compaq, bring it back and it was no longer readable. Took a floppy drive out of another machine and the latest floppy continues to work so at least I know I now have a good disc and a good drive.
The restoration process even starts. but, it only gets to 2% (after a couple of hours) then the screen goes blank and that's it. I wonder if the HDD is too unreliable, it seems to spin down eventually and CTRL-ALT-Delete restarts the machine but the disc won't spin up until a hard power reset.
I tried to prepare a slightly more modern disc with a 2GB FAT partition but to no avail, so far. Keeps returning with disc errors/no fixed disc etc when I try the more modern drive. Got some lovely old integer errors when I put bigger drives in, too, not seen those in a long time! boots to restore process fine every time with the old drive in, but, as above, only gets to 2%.
It's trying to go. I have a feeling that the HDD might be the final hurdle. I just need to somehow prepare one correctly.
I would really like to get a floppy emulator, I think it would be immensely useful not just for this machine but also the others I'm planning to get going in this little fleet. I just need to figure out which one, I gather they are not all the same in firmware and hardware, and the goteks vary, too.
P.S. sorry for the flicker in the pictures - I don't think the Pixel camera allows me to change the refresh rate as I would need to.
Idk if I have the same IDE controller on my Prolinea, but it will not accept anything larger than 2 GB if I remember correctly, no matter the partitioning or any other work arounds. Not saying it's impossible but just that I gave up after a few late nights of trying.
Joakim wrote on 2023-09-09, 17:10:Idk if I have the same IDE controller on my Prolinea, but it will not accept anything larger than 2 GB if I remember correctly, no matter the partitioning or any other work arounds. Not saying it's impossible but just that I gave up after a few late nights of trying.
Ah, thank you, I was beginning to suspect something like that. So, either another second hand drive as a gamble or, would a <2GB CF drive work? Smallest I have in my pile of old drives is 20GB.
That should work.
It can be a bit picky setting the jumpers correctly (master/slave/cable sel) though, and I don't think all converters even have jumpers. Believe I had problems with that when I tried something similar. (Probably you can solve this by some clever means.)
I tried a pci ide controller and that worked with larger drives if you really want one but I don't have slots for it.
Joakim wrote on 2023-09-09, 18:27:That should work.
It can be a bit picky setting the jumpers correctly (master/slave/cable sel) though, and I don't think all converters even have jumpers. Believe I had problems with that when I tried something similar. (Probably you can solve this by some clever means.)
I tried a pci ide controller and that worked with larger drives if you really want one but I don't have slots for it.
Ah, I do have a PCI IDE controller, I just never thought to try it because I assumed the hardware of the card would be too modern to be picked up natively by the compaq. Perhaps I should give it a try, though I would like to try the CF thing. Similarly as the floppy emulator, I imagine getting used to the CF option will stand me in good stead for other projects in general and the idea of swapping OS installs or transferring games directly to the CF that easily in other machines is very appealing.
Someone has one of these up on ebay right now. It's overpriced, I've seen less nice examples going for $100-200 in the past year, but it seems like they went the extra mile to try to restore it as much as possible. Just wanted to mention it here in case anyone is really desperate for one and has a good chunk of cash burning a hole in their pocket. Having said that, less nice examples do tend to pop up a couple times a year for way less money. But I thought some of you guys might want to know.
Some small progress, but I'm not there, yet - feels so close, so hopefully there's a way to get over the final couple of hurdles
1 - I have the CF-IDE adapter. When I plug this is, I do not get a "no fixed drive" error, so the machine seems happy enough with the interface. When I get into the restore setup, it throws a hard drive error and gets stuck at the beginning. I think this might be because the CF card is not appropriately formatted. I'm waiting for a CF USB reader so that I can check it on the modern PC (I did have a USB CF reader already, must be buried deep in a miscellaneous box, somewhere). Interestingly, when I put the IDE-CF card in, the restore setup asks for a serial number, it's never done this before, and further suggests to me that the machine is happy with the interface and is simply saying "oh, this is a totally new drive I've never seen before". The warranty card is still stuck to the side of the monitor, and the restore setup is happy with the serial number on that.
2 - If I use one of my other HDD to test it, I immediately get a "no fixed drive error" - I take it that this is because the smallest drive I have is 20gb and the machine just doesn't recognize it's existence.
3 - If I put the original drive in, the restore setup starts and runs, over a couple of hours, to 4%, then hangs and the display turns blank. I figure that the most likely cause is the original HDD is dead. Hopefully it's nothing else.
I'm guessing next step is waiting for the USB CF reader, or, making some DOS floppies and trying to format the CF on the machine itself.
the serial number is also on the chasis, i think its on one of the sides.
ok so your problem i think its this, and post#1 has some bomID codes.
https://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1139882
Regarding your inquiry, please note that Compaq does not support hard disk drive upgrades for Presario desktops, nor do we have any BIOS or ROM updates to increase the size of supported hard drives.
It is possible to go to a computer dealer or repair shop in your area and see what third-party equipment they have that may be compatible with your computer. However, Compaq does not test third-party hardware or software and cannot support such a course of action.
Also note that Quick Restore disk will not work after replacing harddrive. If you cannot reinstall the original Compaq hard disk, you need to prepare the new hard disk for QuickRestore. Please be advised that this may not work for all hard disks and you may have unpredictable results for non-Compaq hardware. During the manufacturing process, an identification number (BOMID) is written to the UIA area of the hard disk. The BOMID identifies the model of the computer in which the hard disk is installed. Replacement hard disks do not contain this information. Therefore, when using QuickRestore on a Compaq Presario computer that contains a replacement hard disk, the QuickRestore program will be unable to identify the model of the computer.
SOLUTION
Follow the steps below to write the BOMID to the UIA area of the new hard disk:
1. With the old HD installed go to START/FIND/FILES or FOLDERS.
2. Type info.bom in the 'Named' box, select your HD(C or whatever) in the 'Look In' box, and click 'Find Now'.
3. Open the file with "Notepad".
4. At the very top you'll see a 3-digit number. That is the BOM ID number that has to be installed on the UIA of the drive.
5. With the new HD installed insert the QuickRestore diskette (when applicable) and CD into the appropriate drives, and then restart the computer.
NOTE: If a QuickRestore boot diskette is not included with the QuickRestore kit, you can create this diskette from the BOOTDISK subdirectory on the QuickRestore CD.
6. At the initial screen (Program Language Selection), select "Exit" from theQuickRestore utility.
7. At the A:\>_; prompt, type uiabomwr_xxx (where xxx is the BOMID of the computer), and then press Enter.
EXAMPLE: A:\uiabomwr 201 would store the 201 BOMID (for a Compaq Presario model 8772) into the UIA area of the hard disk.
If the BOMID fails, then your new hard disk does not support the ability to have the BOMID written to it. You cannot run QuickRestore without the BOMID. You should take the computer to a local Compaq Authorized Service Center to have a replacement hard disk installed that supports QuickRestore. This would require the original spare part to be installed.
NOTE: On future versions of QuickRestore CDs, the uiabomwr.exe utility will be located in the TOOLS directory of the QuickRestore CD.
having said that:
Lovely machine, so many memories because i also had it.
With it i played so many great games like warcraft2 and Duke Nukem3d.
I didn´t have more money back then to buy a card...but i think a time period upgrade would be the voodoo1 card
Not sure when compaq released it tho, but since it came with win95 cd it must have been after august 1995.
The keyboard is quite unique because it has a split spacebar key, very rare design. I was able to buy one of those keyboards some years ago with what i think was the original mouse too.
The experience on first boot is also quite unique because from factory or after the restore, windows95 loads and you get a video intro with a program from the Start rek actor who played "Q"
You need to replace the bios battery or solder some wires with coin battery socket because when it runs out it starts to give those blue boxes on boot and not saving setup.
its very noisy too, beacuse of the hard drive.
other thoughts:
-I can´t remember much but i think it uses the old sim edo memory, and i can´t remeber the maximum memory you can install into it, because of that it might be not a good candidate for windows98SE ?
-there was also another slot for some kind of compaq cache upgrade stick, very rare to find.
- I also can´t remember what was the maximum CPU upgrade you could install, mine came with a pentium 133
a lot of more info from someone that got your problems before
SETBLASTER wrote on 2023-09-17, 14:46:a lot of more info from someone that got your problems before
Oh my goodness, what brilliant information - the final piece of the puzzle! And it's a real eye-opener, thinking of what it was like for non-techy families getting computers in the 90s and having no idea about the engineering decisions behind the set ups used on some of the big brands like not having a "proper" BIOS, and this BOM ID limitation for changing drives.
Well, it worked! After formatting the CF in FDISK, I took a BOM ID from (https://discussions.virtualdr.com/showthread. … -Problems/page2) and the machine flew through the restore process! It's really surprisingly snappy now the mechanical HDD isn't in place - Windows 95 runs beautifully on the P120 and the 24mb RAM. I think a PCI Voodoo would just be brilliant, and, not worrying about being too period correct I wonder if a PCI Banshee or Voodoo 3 would run okay in terms of compatability.
Thank you so much to everyone who has contributed. I hope this thread might be useful to somone else who stumbles accross it. Just need properly to clean the machine up now, and get a permanent place for it at my main desk.
strange_loop wrote on 2023-09-17, 15:50:Oh my goodness, what brilliant information - the final piece of the puzzle! And it's a real eye-opener, thinking of what it was like for non-techy families getting computers in the 90s and having no idea about the engineering decisions behind the set ups used on some of the big brands like not having a "proper" BIOS, and this BOM ID limitation for changing drives.
The big brands were quite different prior to the very late 1990s. By and large, they were still trying to make their own 'IBM compatible' computers with lots of custom-designed things. BIOSes with setup programs on floppy, lots of things soldered on motherboards, weird peripherals (e.g. Packard Hell had a combo sound/modem card, IBM had Mwave), creative hardware design (look at the Aptiva 'stealth' series, and I'm pretty sure NEC had a similar system with a separate floppy/CD-ROM/etc module), custom shells (until Microsoft effectively killed those with Win95), etc. I think, particularly in the home computer market, they were trying to find ways to stand out that could appeal to non-techy families.
I would say that the rise of folks like Dell/Gateway/etc making very 'standard' computers off Intel boards with Intel chipsets, PCI/AGP/ISA expansion cards for everything (at least until the i810), Phoenix/AMI BIOS, ATX/microATX cases, was somewhat the end of this.
The other thing, actually, worth noting is that, after a decadeish of some chaos where IBM was no longer setting the standard that others were just cloning, around this time, Microsoft/Intel (and others) really started to standardize hardware design with things like ACPI, PC97/98, ATX, AC97 audio, etc.
strange_loop wrote on 2023-09-17, 15:50:Oh my goodness, what brilliant information - the final piece of the puzzle! And it's a real eye-opener, thinking of what it was […]
SETBLASTER wrote on 2023-09-17, 14:46:a lot of more info from someone that got your problems before
Oh my goodness, what brilliant information - the final piece of the puzzle! And it's a real eye-opener, thinking of what it was like for non-techy families getting computers in the 90s and having no idea about the engineering decisions behind the set ups used on some of the big brands like not having a "proper" BIOS, and this BOM ID limitation for changing drives.
Well, it worked! After formatting the CF in FDISK, I took a BOM ID from (https://discussions.virtualdr.com/showthread. … -Problems/page2) and the machine flew through the restore process! It's really surprisingly snappy now the mechanical HDD isn't in place - Windows 95 runs beautifully on the P120 and the 24mb RAM. I think a PCI Voodoo would just be brilliant, and, not worrying about being too period correct I wonder if a PCI Banshee or Voodoo 3 would run okay in terms of compatability.
Thank you so much to everyone who has contributed. I hope this thread might be useful to somone else who stumbles accross it. Just need properly to clean the machine up now, and get a permanent place for it at my main desk.
Im glad it helped. and that the info is still online after 30 years, when so many sites dissapeared. back then people had the very same problem. perhaps you can share with us more details info on what you did. here is is a list of questions i got for you since now you made it.
1. what CF card did you use, how big is the CF ?, you formatted it to how many Gigs? ( the original pc had i think a 1.3gig hard drive)
2.what bomid number did you use on dos floppy tool.
3. do you know why the site lists 2 kinds of floppy images? i know one is to boot the recovery cd. but the other floppy image i dont know what it is for.
4. maybe share your recovery CD ISO with the specific bomID number that you used, so people in the futute can do it. and a serial of machine like 1111xxxx1111 where the xxxx is whats its really needed for the recovery cd to work as the recovery program asks for it.
5. how many edo memory modules did you install?
6. why do you have 2 quick restore CDs? are those the same or different?
