1 I dont know why Power screen has IDE 1 primary enabled and rest disabled
2 what is inside Boot screen Removable Devices submenu?
3 try disabling HDD on the first screen, then boot with floppy in drive and tell us what you get on the screen
4 try spamming F9 on start, I think this key brings up boot menu
rasz_pl wrote on 2023-08-26, 20:46:1 I dont know why Power screen has IDE 1 primary enabled and rest disabled 2 what is inside Boot screen Removable Devices submen […]
1 I dont know why Power screen has IDE 1 primary enabled and rest disabled
2 what is inside Boot screen Removable Devices submenu?
3 try disabling HDD on the first screen, then boot with floppy in drive and tell us what you get on the screen
4 try spamming F9 on start, I think this key brings up boot menu
Well. . . progress!
I was a bit dubious about this VGA to HDMI converter, even though it was evidently working. I went up to my attic to pull out this old 14 inch Compaq monitor that came with my first PC some time around '97 (funnily enough, I just pulled this monitor out of my mum's attic last week. . .)
The monitor hasn't been plugged in for at least 20 years. Connected it up and. . . bam, there's DOS. The PC had been dutifully booting to DOS ever since I asked it to, but for some reason the signal converter could only pick up the splash screens and bios but not DOS.
Monitor did make some dubious clicking sounds for the first minute but all seems fine, now. If I'm going to keep using it I'll need to check it's not full of dust. But, to be honset, for now I'll need to stick with my modern monitor in the interest of domestic harmony at the shared desk space!
So, back to the real task at hand which is getting a fresh install of Windows 98 onto this, somehow.
Oh, and yes, I have cleaned the monitor, now!
Before I do get to the stage of a fresh install, is there anything I should do to increase the chances of getting things set-up again, afterwards? I'm thinking in terms of less obvious drivers, etc?
strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-26, 22:08:Before I do get to the stage of a fresh install, is there anything I should do to increase the chances of getting things set-up again, afterwards? I'm thinking in terms of less obvious drivers, etc?
Could try a BIOS update (the one on theretroweb isn't right for your system - Pavilion 8550 / D9300) - so the correct one is attached...
There's also a firmware update for a particular CD-RW / DVD drive combo, though not sure it applies (attached anyway)...
"Do you need to update?
Release date: 23-Nov-1999 Version: 2.5c
Description: This firmware update is for French and UK SKUs with the Mitsumi CD-RW and Hitachi DVD drives. It resolves the issue where the Hitachi DVD-ROM GD-2500 was not showing up in BIOS when a Mitsumi CD-RW and Hitachi 6x DVD are in the same system. To install the update: 1) Download the file to the desired directory. 2) After downloading the file, locate it and Double click it to start Setup. 3) Click on Setup. A window appears saying the system needs to be rebooted so the updated modem can be installed. Click Yes to reboot the system and install the patch. "
strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-26, 21:50:I was a bit dubious about this VGA to HDMI converter, even though it was evidently working. I went up to my attic to pull out this old 14 inch Compaq monitor that came with my first PC some time around '97 (funnily enough, I just pulled this monitor out of my mum's attic last week. . .)
The monitor hasn't been plugged in for at least 20 years. Connected it up and. . . bam, there's DOS. The PC had been dutifully booting to DOS ever since I asked it to, but for some reason the signal converter could only pick up the splash screens and bios but not DOS.
What kind of screen were you using on the other side of the VGA to HDMI converter? My guess is that it doesn't support 80x25 text mode DOS output. (I had trouble with this trying to use a DVI->HDMI cable with a TV with a vintage Power Mac G4 - once booted into OS X it would work just fine, but whatever resolution/refresh rate/etc was used for the boot screens was totally foreign to my Samsung 4K TV)
Does this BIOS have a graphical boot screen? If so, my guess would be that the monitor can pick up that display mode, but not the ol' DOS text output.
Make a Windows 98 boot floppy disk using Windows 98. I think its called a recovery disk inside 98.
This will do two things.
1 make sure your floppy drive works
2 make sure your floppy disk is actually bootable.
On the BIOS > Boot
Keep the order as it is, in the sub heading removable devices make sure the floppy disk drive is the preferred option.
With the 98 boot disk in the floppy drive boot the PC.
strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-26, 22:08:Before I do get to the stage of a fresh install, is there anything I should do to increase the chances of getting things set-up again, afterwards? I'm thinking in terms of less obvious drivers, etc?
I would run some tests... like memtest, hdd bad block test (mhdd?), etc. After that, I'd run fdisk and format to create partition(s). Then copy win98 install over to hdd to run setup from there.
Zerthimon wrote on 2023-08-27, 18:55:strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-26, 22:08:Before I do get to the stage of a fresh install, is there anything I should do to increase the chances of getting things set-up again, afterwards? I'm thinking in terms of less obvious drivers, etc?
I would run some tests... like memtest, hdd bad block test (mhdd?), etc. After that, I'd run fdisk and format to create partition(s). Then copy win98 install over to hdd to run setup from there.
Thank you, that's really helpful. What size of partition would be reasonable for just the windows 98 files and installation? I was thinking of putting a fresh drive in it - I remember during the era being amazed by 10gb drives, not that I'll be able to get a new one of those. Second hand mechanical rives are obviously a gamble - I did also consider the options of CF or SSD, but, to be honest, the sound of the mechanical drive is a pretty big appeal, especially since I'm not planning on this being the fastest windows 98 machine. I'm planning an Athlon XP build that will be later-era and maybe not all entirely period-correct, anyway.
ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-08-27, 18:25:Make a Windows 98 boot floppy disk using Windows 98. I think its called a recovery disk inside 98. This will do two things. 1 ma […]
Make a Windows 98 boot floppy disk using Windows 98. I think its called a recovery disk inside 98.
This will do two things.
1 make sure your floppy drive works
2 make sure your floppy disk is actually bootable.On the BIOS > Boot
Keep the order as it is, in the sub heading removable devices make sure the floppy disk drive is the preferred option.
With the 98 boot disk in the floppy drive boot the PC.
I'll give that a go - I did try last night, but I'm not sure if the floppys I had were just dodgy, or the drive. It was reading a few of them fine, though, so seem promising.
VivienM wrote on 2023-08-26, 23:08:strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-26, 21:50:I was a bit dubious about this VGA to HDMI converter, even though it was evidently working. I went up to my attic to pull out this old 14 inch Compaq monitor that came with my first PC some time around '97 (funnily enough, I just pulled this monitor out of my mum's attic last week. . .)
The monitor hasn't been plugged in for at least 20 years. Connected it up and. . . bam, there's DOS. The PC had been dutifully booting to DOS ever since I asked it to, but for some reason the signal converter could only pick up the splash screens and bios but not DOS.
What kind of screen were you using on the other side of the VGA to HDMI converter? My guess is that it doesn't support 80x25 text mode DOS output. (I had trouble with this trying to use a DVI->HDMI cable with a TV with a vintage Power Mac G4 - once booted into OS X it would work just fine, but whatever resolution/refresh rate/etc was used for the boot screens was totally foreign to my Samsung 4K TV)
Does this BIOS have a graphical boot screen? If so, my guess would be that the monitor can pick up that display mode, but not the ol' DOS text output.
It's a 24 inch DELL QHD unit, only with DP and HDMI in. Would a VGA LCD display DOS fine, or are some of the even the pure VGA and DVI ones still too modern to display?
PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2023-08-26, 22:27:Could try a BIOS update (the one on theretroweb isn't right for your system - Pavilion 8550 / D9300) - so the correct one is att […]
strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-26, 22:08:Before I do get to the stage of a fresh install, is there anything I should do to increase the chances of getting things set-up again, afterwards? I'm thinking in terms of less obvious drivers, etc?
Could try a BIOS update (the one on theretroweb isn't right for your system - Pavilion 8550 / D9300) - so the correct one is attached...
There's also a firmware update for a particular CD-RW / DVD drive combo, though not sure it applies (attached anyway)...
"Do you need to update?
Release date: 23-Nov-1999 Version: 2.5c
Description: This firmware update is for French and UK SKUs with the Mitsumi CD-RW and Hitachi DVD drives. It resolves the issue where the Hitachi DVD-ROM GD-2500 was not showing up in BIOS when a Mitsumi CD-RW and Hitachi 6x DVD are in the same system. To install the update: 1) Download the file to the desired directory. 2) After downloading the file, locate it and Double click it to start Setup. 3) Click on Setup. A window appears saying the system needs to be rebooted so the updated modem can be installed. Click Yes to reboot the system and install the patch. "
Thank you, good to know that bios is available. I am worried that with a fresh install I might break some functionality since there's a fair bit of more obscure/propitiatory HP elements to the hardware but I suppose it wouldn't be the end of the world; plan is to have a voodoo 3 in this one and if anything goes wrong with the soundcard/modem set-up I can put a SB card in.
I usually make first partition (C:) to be 2GB (in case I would want to install DOS later), and the rest of hdd's free space I use for the second partition (D:), then I copy win98 setup to it and install windows on it.
Edit: later you can change partitioning scheme, if you need, with Partition Magic or Gparted.
strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-27, 19:55:VivienM wrote on 2023-08-26, 23:08:strange_loop wrote on 2023-08-26, 21:50:I was a bit dubious about this VGA to HDMI converter, even though it was evidently working. I went up to my attic to pull out this old 14 inch Compaq monitor that came with my first PC some time around '97 (funnily enough, I just pulled this monitor out of my mum's attic last week. . .)
The monitor hasn't been plugged in for at least 20 years. Connected it up and. . . bam, there's DOS. The PC had been dutifully booting to DOS ever since I asked it to, but for some reason the signal converter could only pick up the splash screens and bios but not DOS.
What kind of screen were you using on the other side of the VGA to HDMI converter? My guess is that it doesn't support 80x25 text mode DOS output. (I had trouble with this trying to use a DVI->HDMI cable with a TV with a vintage Power Mac G4 - once booted into OS X it would work just fine, but whatever resolution/refresh rate/etc was used for the boot screens was totally foreign to my Samsung 4K TV)
Does this BIOS have a graphical boot screen? If so, my guess would be that the monitor can pick up that display mode, but not the ol' DOS text output.
It's a 24 inch DELL QHD unit, only with DP and HDMI in. Would a VGA LCD display DOS fine, or are some of the even the pure VGA and DVI ones still too modern to display?
Hmmm... QHD, meaning 4K?
I'm starting to agree with you it's probably the adapter. Or HDMI generally. "DOS" 80x25 text mode continues to be in use today, at least on non-UEFI-only systems.
If you had a late-2000s/early 2010s BIOS-based system with a DisplayPort GPU, I'm pretty sure that that monitor (and any monitor that's actually a monitor rather than a TV) would display 80x25 text mode just fine.
That being said, sometimes for compatibility, you want sketchier monitors rather than a new, flagship model from a major brand. e.g. I've had great luck with a recent 1920x1080 15.6" thing from a completely unknown company - I can look up what exactly it is - it has mini-DP, mini-HDMI and USB-C inputs, and it seems to take everything - e.g. with a DVI to miniHDMI, it will happily display the weird resolutions used by OpenFirmware on early-2000s PPC Macs. Meanwhile TVs or a recent Lenovo 2560x1440 won't do some weirder modes...
you can switch a graphics card to another, witch DVI output and use DVI-HDMI cable for better picture quality. those Chinese hdmi converters works very bad. even some PCI VGA cards does have DVI output.
Its nothing to do with the screen or video. If you can see the BIOS you can see the output of the Win98 boot floppy.
Its taking its boot record from the hard disk.
You could take a boot record from the hard disk to do it but it really would be better to boot up using a floppy disk with the tools you require on it.
The answer to your problem is in the BIOS boot options menu and its sub menus.
Bit of a delay (to all my projects, IT or otherwise - new baby is the priority!) but this machine is running nicely, now.
I was worried it would be a real pain to get the hardware working with a fresh OS install, but I knew I wanted a better HDD (still IDE and mechanical, but a fair bit more modern and 4 x the storage at 40GB). Got Windows 98 SE on it no problem, and to my surprise after some fiddling I got the sound and game port etc all working. It took a bit of digging, but it seems this Riptide Sound/Modem thing is an HP special and it does also have an Aureal chip built into that setup. The upshot is, I was able to get it to work by finding the Riptide drivers and the Aureal drivers, then just pointing the driver installer to the required folder whenever it couldn't find e.g. an Aureal file. I'm sure I could have just combined the contents, but, it worked anyway.
The machine was also extremely loud, and it was all CPU fan so I fitted a new fan to the CPU and that is now almost silent, certainly quieter than the PSU anyway (which is itself very quite).
Strange thing happened when I was trying to get all the drivers set up - I used one of the HP updates for the optical drives. This update was for firmware and updated in DOS. This seemed to brick the drives at the time. Not visible in windows, but visible in bios and in the device manager in safe mode. Tried another known good drive - just the same. Only thing I could do in the end was another fresh install but this didn't work either, until I used FDISK to delete the partition and do a fresh install on a fresh partition, then all the drives were visible in Windows again. I don't know what happened, I was worried that I'd done something to the firmware of the drives that I wasn't going to be able to reverse - but, they are fine now.
I've also fitted a Voodoo 3. I think this was a mistake in a way because I'm realising that with my XP build which will be able to run fairly old stuff, and an early Windows 98 build, I don't really need an intermediate Windows 98 build - anything too old for XP will run on the slow 98 machine, and anything too demanding for that will run on the XP machine - at least, I'm fairly sure that will be the case for my specific uses. So, I would have been better with a PCI Voodoo card that could go in my main Windows 98 computer (I have a few processor choices for that, between 1.2 and 1.8ghz Athlon) and then the bulk of my use cases could be covered by two machines. Nevertheless, it was terrific to have it working, and quake and half life looked excellent. Another option would have been the previous motherboard which was in the middle Windows 98 machine but which is subject of the "Have I killed my motherboard" thread - I think that would have worked with the AGP voodoo. Anyway, live and learn, I think a PCI voodoo would be the more flexible option for me so something to think about in the future.
As is the way, the voodoo was very hot so I've mounted a fan with an expansion slot cover. The Voodoo now stays cool to touch (I know, not very scientific). I know that cases of this era were just so different in terms of thermals, and people used to focus on trying to create negative pressure. However, this case is especially cramped and poor for thermals, with no grills at all for additional fans front or back, and the CPU is hidden away really depending upon some exhaust via the side-mounted PSU. The one thing that this case has going for it is that it is wide and so that fan that I've added gets plenty of air from behind it, then with the expansion slots open there's somewhere for that air to go out the back. The fan is also big enough to get some airflow over the back of the card and the southbridge.
I have also modified the drive caddys and moved the HDD position a little - it was a bit of a pain pulling the front out for any changes, but now I can just just pop drives out the front individually and leave the fascia intact.
I still need to work out a solution to be able to view DOS on my main screen - I'm really space limited for pulling out an old display but it is an option when I need it.
Nice working machine, now, just some fine tuning to go and maybe another stick of RAM. It might end up being superseded if I get a glide card in the slightly faster Windows 98 machine but it's great in its own right.
Thanks for all the help - it's been great learning from people on here, lots of new things and also remembering other things I'd forgotten (and some I'd forgotten I'd forgotten).
