VOGONS


First post, by RobbieBenzi

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hello there, I have been recently tasked by my sweet half with the task to clean our garage from my "trashware corner", a little collection of various hardware from the late 90s/early 2000.
After a long and logorating battle we have come to the agreement that I can keep one fully assembled system for PC retrogaming, but coming from the viewpoint of a "trashware as to make old hardware usable again with linux" enthusiast I am in no way an expert in retrogaming hardware, so I need your help in this difficult choice.
I know from reading this forum that the best hardware platform would need one or more ISA ports for the sound card a Tualatin and possibly a PCI vodoo graphic card, but I have neither of those. And I have seen various videos from PhilComputerLab with really "modern" (up to socket LGA 775) hardware, so I am somehow lost.
I would like to be able to run windows 98SE maybe on top of DOS; eventually even Windows XP games but the latter is surely not needed in any way. Knowing that my experience with older DOS games will probably be hampered anyway by the above mentioned lack of an ISA slot and sub par architecture and videocard I am open to emulating those that are lost battle, but I'd like the keep the true experience with good performance with the best possible number of games from the early DOS to the late 98SE/ME(/maybe early XP) era.
Good news is I have at least a Sounblaster live audio card. More details about GPU, more sound card and eventually more peripherals will come in future post, but at the moment I would like to choose at least a core, meaning a Motherboard and a CPU.

This is the hardware currently in my possession (and I don't think I can justify to my special someone buying more hardware while I am supposed to get rid of it =P)

Socket 370
Motherboard
PCChips M758LMRT+ V5.x
CPUs
Pentium 3 1000 SL4C8
Pentium 3 SL45V
Pentium 3 SL4C8
Celeron SL4P8

Socket 462
Motherboard
A7N266 - VM (rev 1.05)
CPUs
AMD Athlon AXDA1800DUT3C
AMD Athlon AXDA1800DMT3C

Socket 939
Motherboard
Foxconn C51GM03A1-2.0-8EKRS
CPUs
AMD Sempron SDA3400DIO2BW

Socket 478
Motherboards
MSI 945GCM MS-7536
ASROCK P4V88
CPUs
Pentium 4 1.7Ghz SL5TK
Pentium 4 1.5Ghz SL5DF
Pentium4 1.8Ghz SL63X
Pentium4 2.6Ghz SL6PP
Pentium 4 2.6Ghz SL6WS
Pentium 4 2.8Ghz SL7DB
Pentium 4 3.0Ghz SL7PM
a Pentium 4 about 1.6Ghz (it's lapped/sanded to copper, so I can't exactly remember the model number ^^' I was working at a low power idle machine and was young and curious,maybe too much of both)

Socket LGA 775
Motherboards
Asus P5S-MX SE
Asus P5V800-MX
Asrock 775v88
CPUs
Pentium 4 SL7PU
Pentium 4 630 SL7Z9
Pentium 4 640 SL7Z8
Pentium D 820 SL8CP
Celeron 1.6Ghz SL9XP
Celeron G1610T SR10M

This in pretty much it. I know that later architectures like those based on LGA 775 will make some purists spit out their dinner but, as I said, this is what I can work with, and I'd like to get the most out of the hardware I'm gonna keep. I don't value XP compatbility that much because it always seemed to me to work pretty well while virtualized. If that's not the case I am also open to an hybrid solution keeping 2 machines, one running DOS/98SE, the other one rocking XP even if that means finding a way of letting one slide under my evil other's nose unnoticed.

Thank you in advance for getting this far in the post to those who will, and even more thanks to those who will give me their opinion and help me decide
Cheers

Reply 1 of 7, by chinny22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Really, it's the graphics card that limits you. 9x and below you want something like a GeForce FX or below for best compatibility, but this limits you for later games.
So it doesn't make sense to install a GF FX on a LGA 775 build, it's not going to hurt but you're not going to see much benefit.

If it was me I'd go with socket 370 and the P3 1Ghz
I find a P3 600 is fast enough for any games that don't play well on XP however faster CPU's don't cause any problems and allow you to play a few extra of those 9x/XP crossover games.

or you can go as fast as possible,
I'm not familiar with the chipsets or how well they work in 98 but both the Asrock LGA775 motherboards have AGP and 9x drivers, the Asus P5V800-MX has AGP but the web page doesn't have any 9x drivers.
Most Win9x games wont care about CPU speed, even the P3 will be too fast for speed sensitive dos games and you could swap the video card from say the Geforce FX to something faster during XP gaming sessions and keep within your 1 PC limit.

Reply 2 of 7, by VivienM

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

You have an interesting assortment of motherboards. Haven't googled all of them, but it looks like a LOT of VIA or SiS chipsets, and your socket 370 board has no AGP. Argh.

What is people's general view on nForce2 for 98SE? I think the general view around here is that for Socket 462 and 98SE VIA chipsets are preferred, but I'm not sure what the details are. I'd be inclined to think the 462 system, assuming the motherboard hasn't failed due to bad caps and assuming no big NF2 dealbreakers, would be the best 98SE bet on your list at least if you're not open to acquiring new motherboards.

That 1GHz socket 370 PIII deserves a great home, but given it's a 133FSB (so no-non-overclocked 440BX board), as are all of your P3s, what might that be? an i815 board? that's missing ISA so it won't have the absolute greatest DOS-friendliness, but otherwise that might make a nice 98SE system. Or if you don't have a great home for it, sell it - those are likely worth a lot more than a random hotburst 478/LGA775...

The other thing is, you might be able to do an unorthodox 98SE system with those newer VIA-chipset hotbursts - are any of your hotburst motherboards AGP?

Reply 3 of 7, by chinny22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

That S370 board does support 133FSB but I missed the lack of AGP. Pair it with say a PCI voodoo card for great 9x system but that's not in keeping with the "trashware corner" theme so have to agree is out of the running.

Personally I like nvidia based motherboards. Maybe not as stable but are a bit different and interesting if you enjoy messing around with old hardware.
However I tend to think once your over the 1Ghz mark it's already crazy fast for 9x so no harm in going faster.

Reply 4 of 7, by analog_programmer

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

S. 370 mobo with PIII 1000. Sell the rest of the "trash" and buy a Voodoo2 (or two for SLI). This PCChips mobo has descent SB-compatible near 100% correct OPL3 FM synthesizer clone build-in sound chip (rebranded CMI8738) and its integrated video will work fine with Voodoo2 for 2D VGA modes.

from СМ630 to Ryzen gen. 3
engineer's five pennies: this world goes south since everything's run by financiers and economists
this isn't voice chat, yet some people, overusing online communications, "talk" and "hear voices"

Reply 5 of 7, by RobbieBenzi

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Back with a few updates, I has finally the time to get back to the Build.

Available soundcards are two Sound Blaster Live 5.1, a SB0100 and a SB0220

Video cards are all AGP:
ATI Rage 128Pro Ultra 32M SDR
nVidia GeForce4 MX440-8X 128MB DDR+TV
GX-G2M4LP/64M/TV
Radeon9600SE 128M DDR V/D/VO
Radeon9600 Pro Advantage 256MB

The Socket 462 decided to let two capacitors blow as soon as I powered It on.

I also have a 775 MoBo with everything compatibile with Windows 2000/XP (and should be also with w98), so the "old" Build purpose have shifted to DOS(mostly) and W98(less important).

Now the question are: would it be worth it to replace the capacitors on the Socket 462 board to hook up one of those cards to the AGP for better performance and compatibility (mostly under DOS, 98 as a bonus) or should I just stick with the Socket 370 MoBo and its integrated GPU (that MoBo has no AGP slot)?
Which SB card would be better?
Given the above is the Socket 939 board a decent fallback option instead of recapping or is it almost the same as a P4 board regarding DOS and 98?

Edit:
I also tried looking for the prices of a Voodoo 3 2000 PCI card, but those are around 200+€, which Is absolutely out of budget, would a TNT2tm64 PCI graphic card give comparable results? The prices for those look far more approachable

Thank you in advance guys

Last edited by RobbieBenzi on 2024-01-25, 14:33. Edited 5 times in total.

Reply 6 of 7, by PC@LIVE

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Personally, when a family member intrudes on my old-HW, it only does great damage, some of my most interesting pieces are vanished, given away or thrown away.
If you wanted to buy them back today, it would be quite expensive, and the search could be complicated.
I couldn't get rid of anything, but the idea of ​​having a PC in place of some, which can simulate the slower ones (obviously), can be correct, if instead you want a not so old PC (775), which simulates all old PCs, well sorry but you lose the charm of the old machine, for example a P4 423 with RIMM, even if a 775 could equal or even improve the performance, for me it's something else, then the idea of ​​selling part of the hw to buy more, it could be done but, for expensive cards it takes a lot, perhaps by finding someone willing to exchange, you could keep your favorite PCs, and get what you need.

AMD 286-16 287-10 4MB HD 45MB VGA 256KB
AMD 386DX-40 Intel 387 8MB HD 81MB VGA 256KB
Cyrix 486DLC-40 IIT387-40 8MB VGA 512KB
AMD 5X86-133 16MB VGA VLB CL5428 2MB and many others
AMD K62+ 550 SOYO 5EMA+ and many others
AST Pentium Pro 200 MHz L2 256KB

Reply 7 of 7, by MikeSG

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
RobbieBenzi wrote on 2024-01-23, 21:13:
... Video cards are all AGP: ATI Rage 128Pro Ultra 32M SDR nVidia GeForce4 MX440-8X 128MB DDR+TV GX-G2M4LP/64M/TV Radeon9600SE 1 […]
Show full quote

...
Video cards are all AGP:
ATI Rage 128Pro Ultra 32M SDR
nVidia GeForce4 MX440-8X 128MB DDR+TV
GX-G2M4LP/64M/TV
Radeon9600SE 128M DDR V/D/VO
...
I also tried looking for the prices of a Voodoo 3 2000 PCI card, but those are around 200+€, which Is absolutely out of budget, would a TNT2tm64 PCI graphic card give comparable results? The prices for those look far more approachable
...

An ATI Rage 128 Pro Ultra, A TNT2M64, and a Voodoo 3 2000 are all around the same performance, with the Voodoo 3 being a lot worse at resolutions > 800x600. Can run Quake 2, Half-Life, but not Quake 3 well.

The Geforce 4 MX 440 is 2-4 times faster than all of those cards, has not very much resale value (worth keeping), and it can also run Quake 3 smoothly.

The Radeon 9600SE is similar in speed to the Geforce 4 MX 440 but can run higher resolution, and more modern games that support DX9.

To run Doom 3 you need something about 4-5x faster again, such as a Geforce 6800, 256MB GDDR3, AGP 8x. The shadows in Doom 3 are a CPU bottleneck.

Depends on where you want to draw the line...