Depends on the game, but it is highly likely you will be GPU limited with a Voodoo 3. Tualatin does not make much sense for the asking price. If you want more CPU and GPU, might I suggest moving or creating a system based on inexpensive Northwood Pentium 4 and a GeForce4 Ti.

For games on Unreal engine, you can be easily CPU limited even with a Voodoo 3 card.

Garrett W wrote on 2024-04-16, 08:28:

Depends on the game, but it is highly likely you will be GPU limited with a Voodoo 3. Tualatin does not make much sense for the asking price. If you want more CPU and GPU, might I suggest moving or creating a system based on inexpensive Northwood Pentium 4 and a GeForce4 Ti.

Thanks for the info. For more cpu and gpu power I am already working on bringing a old p4 family office pc back to life. For the V3 I am just looking for decent new home in case my current Asus is beyond saving.

I have also thought that the Tualatin might be worth the asking price. In case the Asus cannot be saved I am going to look for another socket 370 mobo then. I think I will try to find another Asus or would you recommend another good brand for a 370 mainboard?

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-04-16, 11:07:

For games on Unreal engine, you can be easily CPU limited even with a Voodoo 3 card.

You may be right. While Unreal runs quite well with my p3 800EB some more modern games like Deus Ex runs quite bad despite being well above the minium system requirements for that game.

Well IMO, both voodoo3 and tualatin 1.4s or even coppermine are excellent hardware in their time. The problem is, do they fit for each other?

In short, the Tualatin and Coppermine are worth for way much better GPU, such as GF4, or even GF FX...

The Voodoo3 is absolutely the real replacer of Voodoo2, if you want to feel the charm of early-mid time Glide games, which means the games before 1999. And these games don't need a Coppermine 800Mhz, not to mention the Tualain.
And when you do play the games before 1999 by using the Voodoo3, you'll find the compatible problem of the drivers. Well I won't say the compatibility is terrible, obviously it's still far from the perfection. The latest driver just isn't compatible with the DirectX version before 8.0. For instance, you don't even run Moto Racer 2, unless you install the DirectX 8.0 or 8.1. Even you have installed the DX8.1, you'll still find the texture errors especially in some early Japanese transplanted games, such as the Resdent Evil 1 & 2...

Even you don't care about the little compatible problem, let's face it, the performance of the Voodoo3 3000, is just around Riva TNT2, TNT2 PRO. Yes it offers the resolution of 1024x768, but that is all. The only commen gound between 1024x768 and the Voodoo3 is the Voodoo3 does support this resolution. However, under this resolution, you won't get a decent framerate, especially the games after 1999.
For example. Regarding the NFS III, with the resolution of 1024x768 ( or maybe 800x600, I'm sorry I really don't remember which resolution I selected ), you'll the framerate just better than the Playstaion 1 version. And this is actually a 1998 game.

So, If I were you, I probably won't waste time on the Tualatin thing, unless I replace the GPU to a GF4. With the current configuration, I do not mind to play some mid-later 1990's games with a suiteble resolution. Plus regarding some early Glide games, probably the patches are needed.

quigonhu wrote on 2024-04-16, 17:37:

Well IMO, both voodoo3 and tualatin 1.4s or even coppermine are excellent hardware in their time. The problem is, do they fit f […]
Show full quote

Well IMO, both voodoo3 and tualatin 1.4s or even coppermine are excellent hardware in their time. The problem is, do they fit for each other?

In short, the Tualatin and Coppermine are worth for way much better GPU, such as GF4, or even GF FX...

The Voodoo3 is absolutely the real replacer of Voodoo2, if you want to feel the charm of early-mid time Glide games, which means the games before 1999. And these games don't need a Coppermine 800Mhz, not to mention the Tualain.
And when you do play the games before 1999 by using the Voodoo3, you'll find the compatible problem of the drivers. Well I won't say the compatibility is terrible, obviously it's still far from the perfection. The latest driver just isn't compatible with the DirectX version before 8.0. For instance, you don't even run Moto Racer 2, unless you install the DirectX 8.0 or 8.1. Even you have installed the DX8.1, you'll still find the texture errors especially in some early Japanese transplanted games, such as the Resdent Evil 1 & 2...

Even you don't care about the little compatible problem, let's face it, the performance of the Voodoo3 3000, is just around Riva TNT2, TNT2 PRO. Yes it offers the resolution of 1024x768, but that is all. The only commen gound between 1024x768 and the Voodoo3 is the Voodoo3 does support this resolution. However, under this resolution, you won't get a decent framerate, especially the games after 1999.
For example. Regarding the NFS III, with the resolution of 1024x768 ( or maybe 800x600, I'm sorry I really don't remember which resolution I selected ), you'll the framerate just better than the Playstaion 1 version. And this is actually a 1998 game.

So, If I were you, I probably won't waste time on the Tualatin thing, unless I replace the GPU to a GF4. With the current configuration, I do not mind to play some mid-later 1990's games with a suiteble resolution. Plus regarding some early Glide games, probably the patches are needed.

Thanks for sharing your very interesting thoughts. So far I was lucky though and did not really ran into any compability issues with my voodoo 3.

I have not got any word from the rapair shop about the state of the asus mobo.

I have checked the prices and yes a Tualatin board and even the cpu are not cheap. Too expensive for my liking when just using a Voodoo 3.

In case the mobo cannot be saved I plan to use all the components of the current system.

The p3 800mhz, 256 mb ram and the audigy zs sound card are going to be re used.

The good thing is that I have also found many nice socket 370 boards with cost less then 100 euro which is a good thing.

@all If I have a choice between socket 370 board with a Via Chipset and Intel chipset which one should I pick?

My current Asus board has a Via chipset and I despite the bad reputation of the Via chipsets I did not run into very big troubles—no trouble I could not save with Google search pretty fast.

But in case I am forced to start all over again would be an Intel chipset a safer bet for better compatibility?

Well I have a socket 370 board with a VIA chipset, the Apollo Pro 133T, that works without issues whatsoever.
Specs are:
Asus TUV4X, Tualatin 1133, 512MB PC-133, Radeon 9600 Pro and SBLive! CT4830 with WinME.
I also have a couple Voodoo 3 (AGP and PCI) cards but I actually only use one of them, in a SS7 system.

Just out of curiosity - what country do you live in? I can't think of any place in Denmark, where I could go in and have a 20 year old board diagnosed and definetely not repaired. That would be contacts in the retro community if anything.

And I would always, as in always go for an Intel chipset, based on my own experiences - it's just stability and compatibility.

predator_085 wrote on 2024-04-17, 06:40:

Thanks for sharing your very interesting thoughts. So far I was lucky though and did not really ran into any compability issues […]
Show full quote

quigonhu wrote on 2024-04-16, 17:37:

Well IMO, both voodoo3 and tualatin 1.4s or even coppermine are excellent hardware in their time. The problem is, do they fit f […]
Show full quote

Well IMO, both voodoo3 and tualatin 1.4s or even coppermine are excellent hardware in their time. The problem is, do they fit for each other?

In short, the Tualatin and Coppermine are worth for way much better GPU, such as GF4, or even GF FX...

The Voodoo3 is absolutely the real replacer of Voodoo2, if you want to feel the charm of early-mid time Glide games, which means the games before 1999. And these games don't need a Coppermine 800Mhz, not to mention the Tualain.
And when you do play the games before 1999 by using the Voodoo3, you'll find the compatible problem of the drivers. Well I won't say the compatibility is terrible, obviously it's still far from the perfection. The latest driver just isn't compatible with the DirectX version before 8.0. For instance, you don't even run Moto Racer 2, unless you install the DirectX 8.0 or 8.1. Even you have installed the DX8.1, you'll still find the texture errors especially in some early Japanese transplanted games, such as the Resdent Evil 1 & 2...

Even you don't care about the little compatible problem, let's face it, the performance of the Voodoo3 3000, is just around Riva TNT2, TNT2 PRO. Yes it offers the resolution of 1024x768, but that is all. The only commen gound between 1024x768 and the Voodoo3 is the Voodoo3 does support this resolution. However, under this resolution, you won't get a decent framerate, especially the games after 1999.
For example. Regarding the NFS III, with the resolution of 1024x768 ( or maybe 800x600, I'm sorry I really don't remember which resolution I selected ), you'll the framerate just better than the Playstaion 1 version. And this is actually a 1998 game.

So, If I were you, I probably won't waste time on the Tualatin thing, unless I replace the GPU to a GF4. With the current configuration, I do not mind to play some mid-later 1990's games with a suiteble resolution. Plus regarding some early Glide games, probably the patches are needed.

Thanks for sharing your very interesting thoughts. So far I was lucky though and did not really ran into any compability issues with my voodoo 3.

I have not got any word from the rapair shop about the state of the asus mobo.

I have checked the prices and yes a Tualatin board and even the cpu are not cheap. Too expensive for my liking when just using a Voodoo 3.

In case the mobo cannot be saved I plan to use all the components of the current system.

The p3 800mhz, 256 mb ram and the audigy zs sound card are going to be re used.

The good thing is that I have also found many nice socket 370 boards with cost less then 100 euro which is a good thing.

@all If I have a choice between socket 370 board with a Via Chipset and Intel chipset which one should I pick?

My current Asus board has a Via chipset and I despite the bad reputation of the Via chipsets I did not run into very big troubles—no trouble I could not save with Google search pretty fast.

But in case I am forced to start all over again would be an Intel chipset a safer bet for better compatibility?

Well I have to announce my words only represent myself, it's definetly NOT a general standard.

Regarding your situation, let's just wish your mother borad can be fixed, then nothing have to be changed 😜

In case you're not that lucky, then the problem became which kind of mother board you could choose.

Since your P3 CPU and the memory are still functional, I think you have a wide selection range, which at least contains Intel's 815, 815E, 815ET, VIA's 693, 694 series chipset, or even a 440BX mother board as long as I am doing:P
Of course you could choose a Tualatin borad, and continue to use your current P3 800, or replace to a real Tualatin CPU. That's totally fine, because everything you considered, at last it comes to the MONEY thing.
I don't really have any idea about the retro hardware's price in your contry. Anyway 100 euro for a retro mother borad is just out my imagination. It's just not the problem whether people could afford it, but how people evaluate the value of this retro stuff, and this is totally up to yourself. And of course up to the local price 😁
Compare to the 100 Tualatin boards, I won't mind to choose a reguler 370 board around 30 or even less than 20. Since I expressed in my previous post, the Voodoo3 itself is NOT worth to such a powerful CPUs.

Nevertheless, just keep this in mind, there's NO wrong selection! If you insist to buy a Tualatin, I don't see any forbidden rule.
Just a hint for you, please consider more purchasing channels, maybe you'll find a Tualation board with really really good price~~

@H3nrik V! It's Austria. And we also do have such place in Austria to be frank. It is a semi official stuff. The official function of the store is to sell old hardware parts. But sometimes to boss offers some unoffical repair stuff for selected costomers. I was lucky to be able to request this service thanks to connections. A offical repair store for retro stuff would be a real good thing for the retro community for sure. But I am not sure if there is such place.

@quigonhu Yes of course. It is really hard to determine to vallue of retro stuff. But the prices are what they are. Mainboards can be quite expensive.

Thanks again for sharing a impression again. And yes I am aware that a Tualatin is lot cpu for V3, even with my current CPU the P3 800mhz coppermine is alrady very high end for such card. But I like it that way. With a powerful cpu the V3 card can really shine.

I also have to admit that for collecting purposes alone having A Tualatin mainboard would be nice to have. For gaming purposes as well. It might be too much cpu for V3 but at some poin in the future I might be interested in having a more powerful Win 98SE system. With a Tualatin board I could get a really powerful gpu like a Geforce 3 or 4 to have a real high power Win 98 Se.

The Tualatin is not off the table. Found a Abit ST6 at good price. A board which is supposed to Tualatin ready according to the seller. I need to double check the information first though.

I also won't do anything before getting word from the shop about my current mobo.

predator_085 wrote on 2024-04-18, 06:44:

@H3nrik V! It's Austria. And we also do have such place in Austria to be frank. It is a semi official stuff. The official funct […]
Show full quote

@H3nrik V! It's Austria. And we also do have such place in Austria to be frank. It is a semi official stuff. The official function of the store is to sell old hardware parts. But sometimes to boss offers some unoffical repair stuff for selected costomers. I was lucky to be able to request this service thanks to connections. A offical repair store for retro stuff would be a real good thing for the retro community for sure. But I am not sure if there is such place.

@quigonhu Yes of course. It is really hard to determine to vallue of retro stuff. But the prices are what they are. Mainboards can be quite expensive.

Thanks again for sharing a impression again. And yes I am aware that a Tualatin is lot cpu for V3, even with my current CPU the P3 800mhz coppermine is alrady very high end for such card. But I like it that way. With a powerful cpu the V3 card can really shine.

I also have to admit that for collecting purposes alone having A Tualatin mainboard would be nice to have. For gaming purposes as well. It might be too much cpu for V3 but at some poin in the future I might be interested in having a more powerful Win 98SE system. With a Tualatin board I could get a really powerful gpu like a Geforce 3 or 4 to have a real high power Win 98 Se.

The Tualatin is not off the table. Found a Abit ST6 at good price. A board which is supposed to Tualatin ready according to the seller. I need to double check the information first though.

I also won't do anything before getting word from the shop about my current mobo.

Ah, if you plan to replace a more powerful GPU in future, looking for a Tualatin board is totally reasonble. The Tualatin itself is really a master piece of Intel anyway!

Nevertheless, I'm not sure about one thing. IIRC, the Voodoo3 is a AGP 2X card, meanwhile the 815E, 694T chipset support AGP 4x, is that possible to plug a 2x card into a 4x mother borad, and running totally fine? I tried to find the answer from internet, the result makes me more confused -- It is said that depends on the mother board itself. Ha, this is like saying nothing...

Anyway, just get the fact straight before you go for the Tualatin. And I'm sure you will get a lot of fun~

quigonhu wrote on 2024-04-18, 09:50:

Ah, if you plan to replace a more powerful GPU in future, looking for a Tualatin board is totally reasonble. The Tualatin itself […]
Show full quote

predator_085 wrote on 2024-04-18, 06:44:

@H3nrik V! It's Austria. And we also do have such place in Austria to be frank. It is a semi official stuff. The official funct […]
Show full quote

@H3nrik V! It's Austria. And we also do have such place in Austria to be frank. It is a semi official stuff. The official function of the store is to sell old hardware parts. But sometimes to boss offers some unoffical repair stuff for selected costomers. I was lucky to be able to request this service thanks to connections. A offical repair store for retro stuff would be a real good thing for the retro community for sure. But I am not sure if there is such place.

@quigonhu Yes of course. It is really hard to determine to vallue of retro stuff. But the prices are what they are. Mainboards can be quite expensive.

Thanks again for sharing a impression again. And yes I am aware that a Tualatin is lot cpu for V3, even with my current CPU the P3 800mhz coppermine is alrady very high end for such card. But I like it that way. With a powerful cpu the V3 card can really shine.

I also have to admit that for collecting purposes alone having A Tualatin mainboard would be nice to have. For gaming purposes as well. It might be too much cpu for V3 but at some poin in the future I might be interested in having a more powerful Win 98SE system. With a Tualatin board I could get a really powerful gpu like a Geforce 3 or 4 to have a real high power Win 98 Se.

The Tualatin is not off the table. Found a Abit ST6 at good price. A board which is supposed to Tualatin ready according to the seller. I need to double check the information first though.

I also won't do anything before getting word from the shop about my current mobo.

Ah, if you plan to replace a more powerful GPU in future, looking for a Tualatin board is totally reasonble. The Tualatin itself is really a master piece of Intel anyway!

Nevertheless, I'm not sure about one thing. IIRC, the Voodoo3 is a AGP 2X card, meanwhile the 815E, 694T chipset support AGP 4x, is that possible to plug a 2x card into a 4x mother borad, and running totally fine? I tried to find the answer from internet, the result makes me more confused -- It is said that depends on the mother board itself. Ha, this is like saying nothing...

Anyway, just get the fact straight before you go for the Tualatin. And I'm sure you will get a lot of fun~

Yes if Voodoo 3 is going to work wth a AGP4x board is another thing I need to double check before considering the that board. I do not know if it would work or if would no work but I am aware that this might present a problem. That's why more research is required before considering the abit.

Intel 815 and Via 694t chips support AGP 4x, but if the board has a universal AGP slot, then it should be backwards compatible with AGP 2x and 1x cards.

"4x" boards are frequently 4x/2x boards, but boards that do 4x/8x won't do 2x. It's best to research each and every board though for specific capabilities, they can sometimes fit the "wrong" slot that prevents physical insertion even though the spec says it works, or conversely fit the slot that fits without the electronics that match. There's a page around called "AGP compatibility for sticklers" which gives you the whole story blow by blow.

I think for CPU, the performance of a V3 tends to plateau after 900 or so Mhz, with a few games that happens to as low as 600 and a few where it's more like 1200. If you are aiming to wring every last tenth of a frame per second out of a V3, then a Tualatin is "substantially adequate" without going super silly. But it will be said that if you want to wring every last tenth of a frame per second out of the Tualatin, then you can do much better for graphics.

As it turns out, I just recently upgraded my Slot 1 system to a 1.4GHz Tualatin Celeron. I had a Voodoo 3000 AGP in it, but after some benchmarking vs some nVidia cards I had, it was pretty evident that it was not the right GPU for the system:

So the question is, I guess, what is the sweet spot CPU for a Voodoo 3? I'm thinking upper-end SS7 system, or a Katmai PIII?

Depends on games and expectations. I ran Athlons 1200-2000MHz with overclocked Voodoo3 3000 in early 2000s, but I almost exclusively played UT99 and UT99 mods. V3 3000 is perfect for UT99, 60fps in 1024x768. I remember trying different low end chips and nothing was able to beat V3 in fps/$ category.

rasz_pl wrote on 2024-04-18, 19:27:

Depends on games and expectations. I ran Athlons 1200-2000MHz with overclocked Voodoo3 3000 in early 2000s, but I almost exclusively played UT99 and UT99 mods. V3 3000 is perfect for UT99, 60fps in 1024x768. I remember trying different low end chips and nothing was able to beat V3 in fps/$ category.

That's probably not true in 2024 given the price premium for Voodoo cards?

(Realistically, the best FPS/$ for UT99 is probably to run it on a modern system with the OldUnreal patches. Somewhat ironic, isn't it, that such an era-defining game requires vintage hardware a lot less than most others... and actually, you're now tempting me to try it on an 11th-gen Intel laptop with Iris Xe graphics...)

Your always going to have a bottleneck. For me I'd prefer it to be the GPU over the CPU.

That said you could get a P4 motherboard with AGP and it'll do everything a Tualatin could do for much cheaper price.
Yes it'll be held back by the V3 but it's not going to hurt anything if money is tight.

On the flip side do you have any games been held back by the existing P3 800?
I know none of my 9x games require anything more than a P3 600. Once games start to struggle on that system, they are better off on my XP rig with more modern D3D Nvidia card.

If it's just a case you want a Tualatin because it'll make you happy and nothing to do with performance then thats totally fine as well. Thats why most my PC's are built!

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-04-18, 18:10:

I think for CPU, the performance of a V3 tends to plateau after 900 or so Mhz, with a few games that happens to as low as 600 and a few where it's more like 1200. If you are aiming to wring every last tenth of a frame per second out of a V3, then a Tualatin is "substantially adequate" without going super silly. But it will be said that if you want to wring every last tenth of a frame per second out of the Tualatin, then you can do much better for graphics.

Thanks for the interesting info. Yes my plan would be indeed to max out the V3 as much as possible. But just out of curiosity whichh GPU would be suitable to max out a Tualatin?

@pixel_workbench Thx for info about the Universal AGP slot

chinny22 wrote on 2024-04-19, 00:38:

On the flip side do you have any games been held back by the existing P3 800?
I know none of my 9x games require anything more than a P3 600. Once games start to struggle on that system, they are better off on my XP rig with more modern D3D Nvidia card.

If it's just a case you want a Tualatin because it'll make you happy and nothing to do with performance then thats totally fine as well. Thats why most my PC's are built!

Have not played all the games I want to play but so far I was very happy with the old arragement. Except 1 Game (Deus Ex) all the games I had tried run very well.

And es of course the nice to have factor is the main reason for wanting a Tualatin. There is no real practical reason for wanting one. Like you said if more power is wanted aiming for a Pentium 4 would be a more ecconomical solution.

Just a side note: AMD Athlon XP are normally not expensive either. Might not have the nice circle around the logo, though ... 😉