They are very different, SC-88 is a sound Canvas. Its a wavetable based general Midi compatible module, its a successor of the SC-55, which is a well known standard.

The CM64 is a combination of the CM-32L with the sample-based CM-32P.
CM-32L is basically a MT-32 and its not general midi compatible. Its A linear synthesizer. I dont think the CM-32P has seen any use for video games. Basically, for games, a CM64 pretty much equals a MT32. If you want to make music with it though the CM64 has many more possibilities.

The CM-64 has more sound effects than the MT-32. I have heard that when playing some games on a CM-64 you hear more sounds. Is this really true and if so, which games?

As for old pc gaming, is there a huge difference between a CM-64 and a SC-88?

The CM32 (and thus the cm64) has more sound effects. I know for a fact that Ultima Underworld makes use of that but only the water/river sound.

Also, I seem to recall reading something about some Sharp x68000 games making use of the CM32 modules but i did not know about any PC games.

trist007 wrote:

As for old pc gaming, is there a huge difference between a CM-64 and a SC-88?

They are not really interchangeable, ideally you'd need both. Most common combination is the SC-55 and MT32 though. There is a mt32 mode on the SC modules but its not really accurate.

So is there any real different for pc gaming between a mt-32/scc-1(sc-55) and a sc-88? Are there more sound effects or better quality sound?

-Tristan

Of course there is a real difference

The thing you need to understand is that LA synthetizer modules such as the MT32, CM32, CM64 are not General midi compatible and if the game does not specifically have support for MT32 or another said LA module you simply cannot use it. They do not have a standard patch mapping and they use system exclusive data to program the sounds. It is VERY different than how a general midi module like the SC-88 works

The SC-XX like sc55 and sc88 are general midi (GM) compliant modules. This means that if a game can uses general midi it will work fine. There is also a possibility that a game will use the Sound canvas in a more specific way but most games are simply using the GM part. In this case the options will not specify General midi but rather "Sound Canvas".

Some games will offer support for both General midi and Mt32, Dune2 for exemple. In this case you can use either by configuring the options properly but they will sound quite different. One is usually more preferable than the other, depending on what the composer of the music favored.

Most games will only offer one or the other though, GM or MT32, so you need the proper module in each case, they are not interchangeable as i said earlier.

Now when it comes to general midi modules, which one is better is very relative. SC88 is more recent than SC55 and has higher quality sounds but the games have usually been composed with the SC55 in mind so it might actually sound better or more "authentic" with the SC55 even though in theory SC88 is "better".

If you want to learn more about general midi : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI

I see. However, a Roland SCC-1 is just a SC-55 but in a ISA slot no? However, I read that the SCC-1 is only 8-bit while a SC-55 is 16-bit. So the sound quality on a SC-55 would be better than a SCC-1?

-Tristan

And another question. So say a pc game let's me select General Midi, I could get a sound module like a Roland Fantom XR, which supports General Midi and have at it?

-Tristan

Yes SCC-1 is a SC-55 on an ISA card. The 8 bit refers the the ISA interface being 8 bit, not the bit depth of the samples. There should not be any differences between them.

However the external SC-55 likely has a generally cleaner circuitry and sound, being a more professional oriented machine. I never tried the Scc-1. Nowaday it has become quite rare, its actually easier to find the external module.

trist007 wrote:

And another question. So say a pc game let's me select General Midi, I could get a sound module like a Roland Fantom XR, which supports General Midi and have at it?

-Tristan

Yes, any General midi device will work, at some point i even used a Casio WK-3000 keyboard as a general midi module to play some games.

This being said, it will not always sound optimal, Channel volume issues and simply some patches may not quite fit the "original intend" of the composer.

Dune 2 is a good exemple, while it is General midi complient, it will sound quite bad on anything but a real sound canvas.

trist007 wrote:

The CM-64 has more sound effects than the MT-32. I have heard that when playing some games on a CM-64 you hear more sounds. Is this really true and if so, which games?

That's correct! The CM-32L, CM-64 and CM-500 all support 33 extra sound effects.

Lure of Temptress is a good example, so is Ultima Underworld as mentioned or for example the spitting sounds in Monkey Island 2 sound different.

However on the other hand many games create custom sounds (Sierra and Dynamix did this heaps) and program the Roland MIDI module to produce these sounds. And in such cases differences in MIDI modules can totally destroy such a sound.

So many games only sound 100% right on the very first MT-32.

My recommendations for LA MIDI games are getting the original MT-32 and the CM-32L or CM-64.

For General MIDI the Roland Sound Canvas or Yamaha range of products are very popular. With DOSBox you can also use Sound Fonts.

Good stuff, thanks for the great info.

-Tristan

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

My recommendations for LA MIDI games are getting the original MT-32 and the CM-32L or CM-64.

I did not mention this but as Mau1wurf1977 said, if you want total coverage you'd ideally need two LA synths. I personally have the MT32(old) and the CM64 .

There are two versions of the MT32, lets call em Old/New.
An easy way to differentiate them is the fact that the new MT32 has an earphone jack and the Old doesnt.

The thing is that there are some "bugs" on the Mt32 (old) that were considered by game developers when they created their effects. Those "bugs" were fixed in the "new" version. Hence, the "new" module no longer reacts in the intended way. All the later modules CM32L, CM64 are not "bug" compatible either. For some games, you need the mt32 Old for 100% accurate compatibility. So basically a MT32 (old ) + a CM32L/CM64 or CM500 covers pretty much everything LA wise.

About the CM500, its basically a CM64 and a SC-55 in one, its GM AND MT32 compatible. However its quite rare and expensive, usually its cheaper and easier to get a CM64 and a SC-55.

Small Addition. The CM-500 doesn't have a CM-64 inside but, let's call it that for lack of better words, third and final revision of the MT-32. It introduced a new bug, a faster vibrato.

But yes, it's unique combination of GM and LA make it very desirable with collectors.

Note that the CM-64 and CM-500 have two PCBs inside that get mixed together which means they have a somewhat higher power draw and are a little bit noisier.

The CM-32L and LAPC-I are the same devices, one external, the other one internal. The CM-32L is single PCB and has the cleanest output of all LA options.

Nice. This is what I have so far(some on the way).

MT-32(old)
CM-64
CM-32P
SCC-1(SC-55)
Yamaha DB50XG
LAPC-I
SB AWE64 Gold

So my mobo has two ISA slots. How should I set it up to play old dos games with MT-32?

I was thinking, have the AWE64 in one slot and the SCC-1 in the other, then have the MT-32 connected to the SCC-1. What configurations would you guys recommend? Would I connected the DB50XG to the AWE64 Gold?

Then for the newer dos games replace the MT-32 with the CM-64?

-Tristan

Yes that sounds like a very good idea (SCC-1+AWE64 Gold+MT-32)!

If you also want to use the Yamaha wavetable module you need to replace the AWE64 Gold with something else. Preferably something non Creative because of the hanging note bug.

But personally I would just stick with the Roland and Creative combo.

You can connect both mt32 and cm64 with the passthru plug in the devices and then you only have to switch their audio out when needed.

If I may ask, how is a SC55 connected to a pc and is that working with modern machines?

Dominus wrote:

SC55 connected to a pc and is that working with modern machines?

Any MIDI interface really. Can be an internal Sound Card or a USB MIDI interface.

I use a USB MIDI interface which allows me to use all my Roland MIDI modules with DOSBox, ScummVM, Z-Doom or whatever else passed through MIDI signals.

so you can have all three, mt32,cm64 and sc55 in one chain? hmm, maybe I need to look out for a sc55 as well 😀