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AWE64 Gold weirdness

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First post, by kuparikettu

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I have been now for a while having problems with my AWE64 Gold and today yet another problem emerged. However, before I go and toss this card and replace it with a SB16, I'd like to hear your comments and at least try to solve the problems I'm having.

I'm running a Pentium 233 MMX, SBC with a passive ISA plane (Amiga 2000). I have been able to install the card and it does work to some extent. Blaster values are set, diagnose.exe shows everything is okay and I have heard sound from some games.

However, some things just won't work.
1) FM / wavetable synthesis. When in Diagnose.exe I try to play synth music, the card is silent. aweutil.com gives me "ERR012: AWE32 initialization failed".
2) CTCU -- If I try to run this program, I get a teal screen with mouse cursor.
3) Latest and quite puzzling one: when playing games, only one of the line out channels is outputting sound. Other is silent. This includes also the line-in thru for my MT-32, even when playing Monkey Island with softmpu. Is this right? Diagnose can play 8bit and 16bit sound from both channels. Most of the games however, including Duke Nukem 3D, do not output anything to one of the channels.

Is this card broken or is there some secret I'm unaware of?

Reply 1 of 20, by 5u3

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3) could be a muted channel. Did you check the mixer settings?
2+1) getting CTCU to work is most probably the key to fix the problem with aweutil, which in turn should solve the FM/wavetable issue.

Reply 2 of 20, by ReeseRiverson

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Which AWE64 Gold model is this card?

Reply 3 of 20, by kixs

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Clean the ISA contacts on the card. Try other ISA slot.

Last edited by kixs on 2014-12-19, 06:02. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 4 of 20, by PhilsComputerLab

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I would try the card on a test bench style system before drawing any conclusions. Use the drivers from the Creative site.

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Reply 5 of 20, by orcish75

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Do you have a normal PC motherboard that you can test it on, just to be sure it is the card and not the Amiga 2000? The Amiga 2000 power supply isn't very powerful and the ISA bus on the A2000 is very noisy. If you've got an accelerator and SCSI etc controllers, it makes the situation worse. I've spent hours on my A2000 with a 286 bridgeboard and getting the ISA cards to play nicely. I swapped out the internals of the A2000 PSU with a 300W PC power supply and it made a huge difference. Try putting the AWE64 in an ISA slot right next to the SBC and see if it helps.

Reply 6 of 20, by kuparikettu

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orcish75 wrote:

Do you have a normal PC motherboard that you can test it on, just to be sure it is the card and not the Amiga 2000? The Amiga 2000 power supply isn't very powerful and the ISA bus on the A2000 is very noisy. If you've got an accelerator and SCSI etc controllers, it makes the situation worse. I've spent hours on my A2000 with a 286 bridgeboard and getting the ISA cards to play nicely. I swapped out the internals of the A2000 PSU with a 300W PC power supply and it made a huge difference. Try putting the AWE64 in an ISA slot right next to the SBC and see if it helps.

Many thanks everyone!

I just bought an ISA backplane (http://www.ebay.de/itm/034-XinE-034-Backplane … cvip=true&rt=nc) and am going to test my system on it as soon as I receive it and find a power supply to use with it. I agree that A2000 motherboard is the most probable cause since the stereo problem I had with my AWE64 was there even with my Soundblaster 16 (synth, however, did work).

Any suggestions on the power supply?

Reply 7 of 20, by orcish75

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You'll need a power supply with a -5V rail. Just about all the modern PSU's no longer have the -5V rail unfortunately as it was used on the ISA bus and not on the PCI bus. Not sure if you'll be able to find an older ATX or PC/AT power supply that still works well, you might need to replace the capacitors as most power supplies from that era suffered from the dreaded capacitor plague.

Reply 8 of 20, by 5u3

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orcish75 wrote:

You'll need a power supply with a -5V rail.

Not for an AWE64. Only very few cards need -5V, most notable the SB 2.0 and the LAPC-I.

Reply 9 of 20, by PhilsComputerLab

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Yes 5u3 is correct 😀

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Reply 11 of 20, by raymangold

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The only disadvantage of the AWE64 is that it uses software "CQM" and not real FM synthesis. So it's not designed to play Adlib and things like Adlib tracker (you'll get a bunch of very bad squealing). EMU seemed to have designed it around the licensed instrument set Microsoft uses in windows for OPL3.
So for all intents and purposes, a SB16 is a far better choice than an AWE64 if you plan on listening to OPL3. The early AWE32 cards had some sort of defective output design despite having a real YMF262 making them sound FLATTER THAN A PANCAKE! Absolutely terrible.... Creative can't design proper sound outputs sometimes.

Reply 12 of 20, by Cloudschatze

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raymangold wrote:

The only disadvantage of the AWE64 is that it uses software "CQM" and not real FM synthesis.

Not to be pendantic, but CQM isn't software-based.

Reply 13 of 20, by raymangold

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Cloudschatze wrote:
raymangold wrote:

The only disadvantage of the AWE64 is that it uses software "CQM" and not real FM synthesis.

Not to be pendantic, but CQM isn't software-based.

Nope, EMU programmed it in software despite if it changes on which ICs it's burned into.

Reply 14 of 20, by Eep386

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I think what he means, is it's implemented using microcode on a FPGA. This makes sense actually since I've noticed that different generations of CQM can sound very different. The CQM in the Vibra16C chip used on the CT4180 is arguably the best of all the ones I heard, but it's still distinctly lousy on FM stuff (incorrect sample rate used to calculate the waveforms, incorrect ADSR, wrong waveforms, etc. etc.) The result being that it makes FM sound chirpy, screechy and out of tune.

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Reply 15 of 20, by kuparikettu

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My plan is to put both cards, AWE64 Gold and SB16 in this computer. SoftMPU will be run on the first card which is then also connected to MT-32. For SB16 I have a TopWave32 (Korg) daughterboard which will be used as well. That way I'll get OPL3, GM and MT32 and can just configure different games to use different cards.

Reply 16 of 20, by carlostex

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kuparikettu wrote:

My plan is to put both cards, AWE64 Gold and SB16 in this computer. SoftMPU will be run on the first card which is then also connected to MT-32. For SB16 I have a TopWave32 (Korg) daughterboard which will be used as well. That way I'll get OPL3, GM and MT32 and can just configure different games to use different cards.

Get an AWE32 instead and you'll save an ISA slot.

Reply 17 of 20, by kuparikettu

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carlostex wrote:
kuparikettu wrote:

My plan is to put both cards, AWE64 Gold and SB16 in this computer. SoftMPU will be run on the first card which is then also connected to MT-32. For SB16 I have a TopWave32 (Korg) daughterboard which will be used as well. That way I'll get OPL3, GM and MT32 and can just configure different games to use different cards.

Get an AWE32 instead and you'll save an ISA slot.

Would that work? Using SB16 I wasn't able to get any output to my MT32 through gameport if I had daughterboard connected. If I want to have both do I not need two cards?

Reply 18 of 20, by ik777

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kuparikettu wrote:

Would that work? Using SB16 I wasn't able to get any output to my MT32 through gameport if I had daughterboard connected. If I want to have both do I not need two cards?

You should manually set your cards' resource not conflicting.

If your SB16 uses A220 I5 D1 MIDI 330 AWE64 must not use them. (for example AWE64 uses A240 I7 D3 MIDI 300)
Any of your card is not PNP, there's lots of jumpers setting in it.

After doing this, set up your game configuration as your choice if voice is A220 I5 D1 and midi is 300 it works voice in SB16 and MIDI is AWE64.
FM part is not use IRQ so BOTH cards will work so.

Reply 19 of 20, by Cloudschatze

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raymangold wrote:
Cloudschatze wrote:
raymangold wrote:

The only disadvantage of the AWE64 is that it uses software "CQM" and not real FM synthesis.

Not to be pendantic, but CQM isn't software-based.

Nope, EMU programmed it in software despite if it changes on which ICs it's burned into.

Most chips are designed and programmed in software. Your position seems nonsensical.

Eep386 wrote:

I think what he means, is it's implemented using microcode on a FPGA.

The CT1978 and its integrated core equivalents may very well be FPGAs. This isn't any less a hardware solution than using an ASIC.

This makes sense actually since I've noticed that different generations of CQM can sound very different.

This would be something interesting to run by Dave Rossum. Per the patents (dated Apr. 1995 and Jul. 1996, respectively), there are at least two CQM implementations. That said, I'd actually be curious to hear a comparison of the ViBRA 16C against a card having Crystal's FM variant...