VOGONS


Reply 160 of 3172, by bristlehog

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I have ExpertColor MED3201 and Compaq Ultrasound 32 Pro here. They both work, however, I misflashed the latest and it produces silence instead of sound.

The Compaq card is based on AKC revision of AMD Interwave, while MED3201 is based on KC. Note that MED3201 has no onboard RAM, while Compaq has 512K + ability to install 4MB SIMM.

If you need either for the ongoing project, I can donate.

Last edited by bristlehog on 2015-03-05, 14:13. Edited 1 time in total.

Hardware comparisons and game system requirements: https://technical.city

Reply 161 of 3172, by shock__

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The Compaq Ultrasound 32 Pro might come in handy at one point. So if you wanna donate it (I'd at least pay your shipping) I'd really appreciate that.
The MED3201 is uninteresting due to using the AM78C200KC which is the non-PnP version of the InterWave (I've actually recently parted ways with one of those cards).

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

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Reply 163 of 3172, by shock__

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Done 😀

Just one general thing to all contributors ... I hope you're all okay with having your nickname on the card, rather than your real names - if you either don't want your nickname on the card or your real name instead feel free to PM me.

Also: I've signed up for a livejournal for posting minor (and of course major) updates
http://guspnp.livejournal.com/

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention ... wielding a hot air gun soon-ish ... I'll be able to provide even more 512kb SOJ RAM-chips for free (they're still on some junk graphic cards I got for free a few years ago) in case those make it onto the board.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

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Reply 165 of 3172, by hard1k

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Marmes wrote:

A good option would be rom in DIP and 2 soj to make 1mb. no need for extra memory. It should be simple 😀

Just can't agree with you... 16Mb makes it possible to load Utopia Sound Bank.
While in Win9x, the RAM-loaded bank will sound in games running in DOS-window mode. And Utopia does deserve the right to be supported by the final product.
Of course, this is still to be decided later, but limiting the final release to only 1mb doesn't make much sense, IMO.
Sorry for derailing the thread again into this RAM size discussion 😀

shock__ wrote:

I'd say get it in any case 😉
Waiting for CHiLL72 to reply to my PM right now, if it works out you can keep that GUS PnP for yourself, otherwise I might be interested (also in the "waste" PnP from SPb).

Kinda goes with my experience, when it comes to cloning/redeveloping hardware (I've really dug into ZX Spectrum clones in the past) there are no better supporters than folks from Russia 😀

Well, I won't ask him to give away his GUS PnP if it just goes to myself. Only for the project 😀
And thanks for mentioning folks from Russia, we're really pleased to hear that!

Fortex, the A3D & XG/OPL3 accelerator (Vortex 2 + YMF744 combo sound card)
AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted on Amibay)

Reply 166 of 3172, by Marmes

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It would be nice to have all that, but for the sake of simplicity. DIP rom and 2 soj for 1 mb would be fine. I would add all features later when we feel confortable with the current design.
the philips card doesn't have option for ram, now the compaq ultrasound 32 is another story 😀.

hard1k wrote:
Just can't agree with you... 16Mb makes it possible to load Utopia Sound Bank. While in Win9x, the RAM-loaded bank will sound in […]
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Marmes wrote:

A good option would be rom in DIP and 2 soj to make 1mb. no need for extra memory. It should be simple 😀

Just can't agree with you... 16Mb makes it possible to load Utopia Sound Bank.
While in Win9x, the RAM-loaded bank will sound in games running in DOS-window mode. And Utopia does deserve the right to be supported by the final product.
Of course, this is still to be decided later, but limiting the final release to only 1mb doesn't make much sense, IMO.
Sorry for derailing the thread again into this RAM size discussion 😀

shock__ wrote:

I'd say get it in any case 😉
Waiting for CHiLL72 to reply to my PM right now, if it works out you can keep that GUS PnP for yourself, otherwise I might be interested (also in the "waste" PnP from SPb).

Kinda goes with my experience, when it comes to cloning/redeveloping hardware (I've really dug into ZX Spectrum clones in the past) there are no better supporters than folks from Russia 😀

Well, I won't ask him to give away his GUS PnP if it just goes to myself. Only for the project 😀
And thanks for mentioning folks from Russia, we're really pleased to hear that!

Reply 167 of 3172, by hard1k

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Marmes wrote:

It would be nice to have all that, but for the sake of simplicity. DIP rom and 2 soj for 1 mb would be fine. I would add all features later when we feel confortable with the current design.
the philips card doesn't have option for ram, now the compaq ultrasound 32 is another story 😀.

But Philips card does have option for RAM - the place for SOJ - the whole memory bus is present there (including 2 BKSEL lines, I guess, but that still needs to be confirmed looking at how the original Philips card sees a soldered SOJ)! The only thing needed to be added consists in the other 2 BKSEL lines from the InterWave IC, and they can be just taken off the IC contacts and routed directly to corresponding SIMM contacts. Well, we'll see later 😀 But personally I don't think it's somewhat complicated to replace the existing SOJ with a SIMM72 socket given that every datasheet and pinout is readily available (even in this thread already).

Compaq Ultrasound 32 can also be expanded, but there one will have to solder directly to the InterWave IC (in case of a regular GUS we have all needed BKSEL lines on JP8), and it's not that simple and elegant.

Fortex, the A3D & XG/OPL3 accelerator (Vortex 2 + YMF744 combo sound card)
AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted on Amibay)

Reply 168 of 3172, by QBiN

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hard1k wrote:
Yesterday I made some attempts to find GUS PnP cards and it seems I've found one dead beyond repair in St. Petersburg! Current o […]
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Yesterday I made some attempts to find GUS PnP cards and it seems I've found one dead beyond repair in St. Petersburg!
Current owner is willing to donate it to the project free of charge, but:
1. He won't deal with shipping, it'll be my part.
2. I have to get it from him somehow (from SPb to Moscow).
3. The owner says the card has taken part in "a donor program" leaving it as almost bare PCB. But I guess even a naked PCB will help with some certain aspects of the project 😀

So don't rush to solder other GUS PnP that's still alive and I'll keep you informed.

Tell the police in SPb that the card is part of a Ukrainian sympathizer plot. Then the card will dissappear and re-appear in a Moscow jail cell where you can pick it up after convincing the authorities that the card is actually a Putin loyalist. Then you can ship it. 🤣

EDIT: Just don't walk across any bridges while in possession of the card.

Reply 169 of 3172, by shock__

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Last post reported ... aren't politics as a topic banned on here?
Even if not, totally uncalled for - regardless on one's stand on the issue.

Hello, I'm QBiN, I sell trolling and trolling accessories.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

[Z?]

Reply 171 of 3172, by Hyperborean

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QBiN wrote:

appear in a Moscow

Fortunately, things are not that bad in Russia as you imagine. I can pick the card here in SPb and send it to hard1k. I also have hot air station and can unsolder the card and make high resolution scans of top and bottom layers.

Reply 173 of 3172, by hard1k

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Marmes wrote:

@hard1k

Tell me, if we have 16mb on board can we still use the 512kb for gravis compatibility?

Of course!

Fortex, the A3D & XG/OPL3 accelerator (Vortex 2 + YMF744 combo sound card)
AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted on Amibay)

Reply 174 of 3172, by shock__

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hard1k wrote:
Marmes wrote:

@hard1k

Tell me, if we have 16mb on board can we still use the 512kb for gravis compatibility?

Of course!

Wouldn't that mean, that one bank holds 4.5mb or is this assuming the 512kb chip is disabled when using the full 16MB?

In an ideal case I can see us/myself slapping a 16MB RAM chip onto the board, allowing one to set the banksizes via jumpers ... maybe 0kb (no ram - even tho would that make any sense? Even for debugging and/or testing), 1MB (256kb per bank), 4MB (1MB per bank), 16MB (4MB per bank) and maybe a 9MB setting (512kb on Bank 0 & 1 each, 4MB on Bank 2 & 3 each).

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

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Reply 175 of 3172, by alexanrs

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My original idea was to have a separate 512KB chip disabled when using full 16MB. But if you can set bank sizes through jumpers, even better. One think to consider is price and availability... I haven't looked into it, but there is a possibility that getting suitable 8MB chips is easier or even cheaper, and in that case it might make sense to go for that even on the initial board revision.

Reply 176 of 3172, by hard1k

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shock__ wrote:

Wouldn't that mean, that one bank holds 4.5mb or is this assuming the 512kb chip is disabled when using the full 16MB?

In an ideal case I can see us/myself slapping a 16MB RAM chip onto the board, allowing one to set the banksizes via jumpers ... maybe 0kb (no ram - even tho would that make any sense? Even for debugging and/or testing), 1MB (256kb per bank), 4MB (1MB per bank), 16MB (4MB per bank) and maybe a 9MB setting (512kb on Bank 0 & 1 each, 4MB on Bank 2 & 3 each).

Let somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC InterWave chip can operate in two modes: native InterWave mode (thereafter - native mode) and classic GF1+CS4231A mode (thereafter - GF1 mode).
In native mode it doesn't require any RAM at all. It is the only mode that can be used on RAM-less cards such as the mentioned Expertcolor MED3201 or Philips PCA761AW with no SOJ soldered onboard.
In order to use GF1 mode the card has to bear some RAM, at least 256Kb in one bank. All other known cards utilise this option to some extent (either having a SOJ and/or 1 or 2 SIMM30 sockets). The main difference between original GUS PnP and PnP Pro versions consists in that Pro is GUS compatible out of the box as it already has 512Kb SOJ onboard, while GUS PnP (non-Pro) requires at least one SIMM30 installed (please refer to section E of the attached GUS PnP Manual).
While InterWave is in GF1 mode, only up to 1Mb of installed RAM (no matter - SOJ, SIMM30, SIMM72, etc.) is available to software. The patches are loaded into this available RAM in the same manner as they used to be loaded to original GF1-based GUS. All RAM exceeding the 1Mb limit is invisible to software written for original GF1-based GUS.
While InterWave is in its native mode, up to 16Mb of installed RAM (no matter - SOJ, SIMM30, SIMM72, etc.) becomes available. User may load large soundbanks (including the genuine 4Mb GS soundbank created by VoiceCrystal or other 3rd party soundbanks such as Utopia). Using the patch caching technique InterWave can upload to its local RAM only those parts of the soundbank it needs to play a specific composition.
Speaking about various memory configurations and their compatibility the following issue should be mentioned.
Official InterWave memory configurations do not include a series of alternatives that have proven to be functional, such as 8,5Mb, etc. Nevertheless, one can not be 100% sure that such configurations will be 100% compatible, even if they ran well with some games or software.

To sum up, the answer to your question might be: one bank can't hold 4,5Mb (such combination can be achieved by using a 4Mb SIMM30 together with the onboard 512Kb SOJ resulting in 3 occupied banks, and this combination will be an unofficial one), and in order to get full 16Mb (4 banks of 4Mb per each one) the onboard 512Kb SOJ should be disabled.
Regarding your proposed options for jumpers I would suggest the following (if putting 16Mb onboard):
1. 0Kb RAM - for debugging and hardware limiting the chip to native mode (might be used if a user has another GF1-based GUS in his system willing to use the replica in native mode in DOS while keeping the GF1 mode for the original card - an extremely doubtful scenario, but why not).
2. 8Mb RAM (2 banks of 4Mb per each one) - the maximum configuration that was realised by Gravis (for possible compatibility issues with 16Mb, however I can't recall a specific problem at the moment, but remember hearing about some in the past).
3. 16Mb RAM (4 banks of 4Mb per each one) - the ultimate configuration (default).
The easiest way to create such list of combinations (and even 2 more) would be to put 4 jumpers on the card. Each jumper would short one BKSEL line responsible for 1 4Mb bank.
Thus JP0 would toggle the Bank0, JP1 - Bank1, JP2 - Bank2, JP3 - Bank3, making available the following combinations: 0Kb, 4Mb, 8Mb, 12Mb, 16Mb.
All this can be achieved by either putting full 16Mb directly onboard, or putting a single SIMM72 (thus providing for possible other combinations, let's have a look:
- for 1Mb SIMM72: 0Kb, 256Kb, 512Kb, 768Kb, 1Mb - just what all GF1-concerned users may want,
- for 4Mb SIMM72: 0Kb, 1Mb, 2Mb, 3Mb, 4Mb,
- for 8Mb SIMM72: 0Kb, 2Mb, 4Mb, 6Mb, 8Mb,
- for 16Mb SIMM72: 0Kb, 4Mb, 8Mb, 12Mb, 16Mb.
Of course, all this has to be tested, but the SIMM72 socket would provide much wider choice of options even for the debugging phase. And removing the onboard SOJ will add simplicity to the final design (both for the PCB layout and for the jumper options).

Please, have a look at great article already mentioned here: http://web.archive.org/web/19980709192759/htt … pia/16mbgus.htm
It explains InterWave memory support quite well.

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Fortex, the A3D & XG/OPL3 accelerator (Vortex 2 + YMF744 combo sound card)
AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted on Amibay)

Reply 177 of 3172, by Marmes

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This what I understand from what hard1k said and gus pnp pro card config:
Gus pnp pro can only handle 8mb because 2 banks are reserve for 512kb for Gf1 compatibility and the other 2 control the rest.
Am I correct?
But If you make total use of 16mb it will use all 4 banks. So there is no need for soj. GUS will only adress up to A19. I don't think there is the need for jumpers, since it has the adress limitation.
Is this correct?

Reply 178 of 3172, by awgamer

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You guys realize there are tons of interwave cards available, and with a memory expansion slot, you just need to know how to look, "compaq 240112-001" "interwave 240112-001"

$19.99 http://de.picclick.com/Vintage-new-compaq-240 … 1121757535.html
$28.75 http://www.pinnaclemicrogb.co.uk/newcart/sear … &m=Compaq&c=REF
$39.95 http://www.rakuten.com/prod/compaq-240112-001 … /208945267.html
$42.90 http://codemicro.com/store/search.php?psearchparm=240112-001
$46 http://www.upgradebay.com/Products/ProductInf … uctID=144288429
$50.77 http://www.ambry.com/240112-001.html
$51 http://www.upgradexperts.net/240112-001.html
$53 http://www.buyhpupgrades.com/more-upgrades-mu … ound-cards.html
777 pieces: http://www.abtronics.ru/components/240112001_ … ood_1751272962/
etc.

Reply 179 of 3172, by shock__

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Okay awgamer, project cancelled 😁

For the rest ... current progress (adding polygons), this time in 3D
xETKjgE.png

Last edited by shock__ on 2015-03-06, 15:55. Edited 1 time in total.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

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