VOGONS


First post, by King_Corduroy

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Hello guys, I know a few of you guys are really into the old Roland sound and I was wondering what models can you actually hook up to these old computers and how exactly would one go about doing that. My main PC is a Packard Bell Platinum 55 with a 200MMX CPU,32 MB RAM, 3GB HDD, 8MB Voodoo 2, Belkin 5 port PCI USB controller, and I'm using a Sound Blaster 16 CT2910. It's running Windows 98SE.

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Reply 1 of 19, by Jepael

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Do you want a list, or is it enough to say every external sound module with MIDI input?

If a game supports MIDI output, different games basically could have different MIDI tracks to get the sound exactly right with specific models, or they might just have one General MIDI track. But it does not prevent connecting, it might sound a bit odd (back in the days I had Korg sound module which was general MIDI so MT-32 games had wrong instruments at times.

Also some Sound Blasters exhibit a bug where it occasionally drops a MIDI byte, which can corrupt the music playing in various ways. This is called the "Hanging Note" bug as corrupted note off events leave notes on, but it can also cause notes not to turn on or virtually any event can be missing.

Reply 2 of 19, by Logistics

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I've wondered the same thing, for instance: The MT-200 is a bit more of a professional recording device, but it appears it could do what an MT-32 does and more, but I haven't seen anyone use one in practice so I don't know.

Reply 3 of 19, by King_Corduroy

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Well what do I have to do to get it to route it through the midi device? I have a Gameport to Midi cable already if that's what I need.

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Reply 4 of 19, by chrisNova777

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you can use any midi module that supports GM General Midi map.
The "SC" sound canvas + "MT" units were popular only because of the entry level prices at the time.
if u dont have a midi module u could even wire the sound into any windows machine that includes a GM/GS Wavetable Synthesizer but most people think that sounds like crap!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_GS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_synthesizer
theres other software versions that u could use to replace the GM/GS wavetable synth in any windows machine, or
u could use a VSTi plugin even of some sort... midi is midi.. is midi;) it can be routed to whatever u want to route it to.

http://www.oldschooldaw.com | vintage PC/MAC MIDI/DAW | Asus mobo archive | Sound Modules | Vintage MIDI Interfaces
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Reply 5 of 19, by King_Corduroy

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Yeah but exactly how do I get it to play the midi through this other device? Do I need anything special? Some people on the internet are saying you need an MPU 401 card and a MPU device for Roland MT-32 and stuff. 😒

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Reply 6 of 19, by PhilsComputerLab

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How much time have you got? 🤣

Roland MT-32 CM-32L CM-64 CM-500 Ultimate Tutorial

SoftMPU wasn't out then, so your options today are a bit better.

I can advise what you need if you can be more specific about what you want to do.

What games do you want to play? What MIDI devices do you want to use? Do you prefer internal or external devices? MMX 200 is a very fast machine, do you want to play 386 era games?

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Reply 7 of 19, by Jepael

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King_Corduroy wrote:

Yeah but exactly how do I get it to play the midi through this other device? Do I need anything special? Some people on the internet are saying you need an MPU 401 card and a MPU device for Roland MT-32 and stuff. 😒

Plug the joystick-to-MIDI cable between your MT-32 and SB16, and configure games to use MT-32 (or whatever Roland card type or General MIDI it is called to get them use the MPU401 kind of external MIDI interface). SB16 has MPU401 kind of interface so most games will work. SB16 just does not implement the "intelligent mode" processing, it only implements the "uart mode". Review settings that SB16 midi port lives at IO address 0x330 as that is the default, some games do not allow to change it.

Reply 9 of 19, by ynari

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but all that's needed for Roland support in virtually all games is a new model MT32 (including the CM32 sound effects - equivalent to an LAPC-I) or an SC55 (equivalent to an SCC1)? Anything later will produce technically better sound, but probably isn't what the game was tested against.

This is possibly a good thing, because last time I looked an SC-88 was damned expensive, and it took a little waiting to find a reasonably priced MT32 and SC55. The CM modules are more difficult to find, and have less buttons and no LED display. The LAPC-I/SCC1 are hens teeth these days, and why bother when you can run a SoundBlaster with an external module and SoftMPU?

Reply 10 of 19, by stamasd

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ynari wrote:

why bother when you can run a SoundBlaster with an external module and SoftMPU?

SoftMPU requires EMM386, won't work on a PC/XT/286-class machine and even on many 386 because they're not fast enough. On those machines you'll still need a MPU-401 if you want intelligent mode.

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And a read and a write,
I/O, I/O

Reply 11 of 19, by ynari

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Good point.

Does it not work at all if intelligent mode isn't available? I have the recollection of running WC2 off an AWE32 with MT32 and the music still working, but it has been a while.

Reply 13 of 19, by firage

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ynari wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all that's needed for Roland support in virtually all games is a new model MT32 (including the CM32 sound effects - equivalent to an LAPC-I) or an SC55 (equivalent to an SCC1)? Anything later will produce technically better sound, but probably isn't what the game was tested against.

This is possibly a good thing, because last time I looked an SC-88 was damned expensive, and it took a little waiting to find a reasonably priced MT32 and SC55. The CM modules are more difficult to find, and have less buttons and no LED display. The LAPC-I/SCC1 are hens teeth these days, and why bother when you can run a SoundBlaster with an external module and SoftMPU?

The new MT32 still didn't come with the CM-32L effects, those are LAPC-I/CM-32L/CM-64/CM-500, etc, only. There are also two generations of Sound Canvas, SC-55/SCC-1 and then SC-55 Mk. II/SCC-1A/B/SCB-55, etc. The second generation had extra features, but there are some older games that use a deprecated feature called capital tone fallback.

Theoretically you might want a CM-32L for its sound quality and extra sounds in later games, an MT-32 (old) for authentic sound in older games and its LCD display, and a second generation SC for General MIDI.

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Reply 15 of 19, by firage

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Yes, for GM as distinct from the extended Sound Canvas "Roland GS" support. 128 tones vs. 317 or 354.

Last edited by firage on 2015-09-03, 19:43. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 17 of 19, by PhilsComputerLab

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PeterLI wrote:

Most games have Sound Canvas as an option but the MIDI is GM only.

Yes, I believe they added a Sound Canvas option because many people wouldn't associate it with General MIDI. Doom is one game that has an option for General MIDI and Sound Canvas, but there is no difference, the same driver is used 😀

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Reply 18 of 19, by brassicGamer

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philscomputerlab wrote:

How much time have you got? 🤣

This is a subject I know next to nothing about but would like to know more. Started watching it but I don't have 3 hrs right now! Definitely some other time though.

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Reply 19 of 19, by firage

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Here's an old post collecting some info about non-standard Sound Canvas stuff in games: Sound Driver Enhancement Hacks - General MIDI

No idea just which parts non-GS modules actually can or can't handle.

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