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Strange problems with DOS memory.

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First post, by xstraski

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Hi guys.

I have some strange problems, and I think they are connected somehow between each other.
These problems appear when I am using 486/Pentium motherboards of 94-96-era.
On Pentium 97-98 motherboards everything OK, but only if I am using DIMM memory.
I've searched the whole internet for any information that might help me solving this, but there's nothing helpful.

The problems:
1) Borland C++/Turbo C++, any version that uses DPMI(not TKERNEL), does not run. Depending on whether I enable EMM386 RAM, NOEMS, or no EMM386 at all, I got one of these messages:
* DPMI server initialization error->insufficient memory available to initialize application.
* DPMI server initialization error->dies trying to shrink memory.
* DPMI server initialization error->not enough memory for PM init.
and then:
Memory allocation error.
Cannot load COMMAND, system halted.

2) If I run Smartdrv.exe with EMM386 loaded, when I start any other application, I get EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #01 (sometimes #00).

3) Some games just get stuck. F.e. Monkey Island 2 gets stuck right after "copy protection check using manual". Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis gets stuck just right after I load it. But DOOM, DOOM II, Wolf3D works fine.

I've tried playing with Memmaker, didn't help much (except that the conventional memory is a bit more free now).

Right now I am using Amptron PM-8900 motherboard + Pentium 150Mhz, 16Mb RAM SIMM.

---------------- My CONFIG.SYS ----------------

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=40,0
FILES=80
STACKS=9,256
LASTDRIVE=F
FCBS=4,0

DEVICEHIGH /L:1,16800 =C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE

DEVICE =C:\DRIVERS\CTCM\CTCM.EXE
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,38496 =C:\DRIVERS\CDROM.SYS /D:CDROM000
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,55168 =C:\DRIVERS\MOUSE.SYS

SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM /P

---------------- My AUTOEXEC.BAT ----------------

LH /L:1,27952 C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:CDROM000 /L:D

SET SOUND=... bla bla bla SB16 definitions...
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\MIXERSET /P /Q
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\CTCU /S

PROMPT $p$g
SET PATH=...
SET TEMP=...
CLS
VER

---------------- My MEM output ----------------

Memory Type Total = Used + Free
------------------------ -------- -------- --------
Conventional 634K 25K 609K
Upper 91K 73K 18K
Reserved 0K 0K 0K
Extended (XMS)* 15,269K 501K 14,768K
------------------------ -------- -------- --------
Total memory 15,995K 599K 15,395K

Total under 1 MB 725K 98K 627K

Total Expanded (EMS) 15,680
Total Extended (XMS) 15,008

* EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.

Largest executable program size 609K
Largest free upper memory block 18K

Last edited by xstraski on 2016-08-22, 08:22. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 54, by Jorpho

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If you've already ruled everything else out, it might be worthwhile to try a virus scan.

Reply 2 of 54, by xstraski

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Which program should I use?

Reply 4 of 54, by clueless1

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xstraski wrote:

Which program should I use?

It might be easiest to just pull the DOS hdd out, plug it into a Windows PC and use its virus scanner (or something like Malwarebytes) on the DOS drive.
I think also that something like Hirens Boot CD might have some DOS-based A/V scanners on it, but don't know how up to date the definitions are. If there is malware, and if it is old malware (from the 90s) chances are the definitions will work. But if perchance the there is malware and it is more modern, then I'm not sure. I've never tried that myself.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 5 of 54, by Stiletto

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Moved to Marvin, deleted duplicate thread

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 6 of 54, by xstraski

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OK, thx, I'll try to scan the drive then.

Reply 7 of 54, by xstraski

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I've scanned them, nothing found.

Reply 8 of 54, by krivulak

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Memtest for sure, something like V2.0 should work.

Reply 9 of 54, by kixs

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Have you tried clean boot - F5 or F8 (depends on DOS version) with no drivers loaded and then with just himem?

Requests are also possible... /msg kixs

Reply 10 of 54, by xstraski

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Yep, no difference.

Reply 11 of 54, by Jo22

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Faulty cache chips perhaps ?

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 12 of 54, by darry

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krivulak wrote:

Memtest for sure, something like V2.0 should work.

I second that .

Reply 13 of 54, by xstraski

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Jo22 wrote:

Faulty cache chips perhaps ?

Should I remove all of them and test the PC without cache chips at all?

Reply 14 of 54, by darry

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Should I remove all of them and test the PC without cache chips at all?

I would try disabling L2 (level 2) cache either in the BIOS setup, if possible or using a DOS utility such as this one otherwise instead of physically removing the cache chips .
http://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=74

As mentioned before, running a memory test with a variant of one the Memtest utilities would be a good test as well . Here is a link to an older version that should run under DOS . Newer versions usually need to be booted from floppy, CD or USB flash drive.

http://www.memtest.org/download/4.20/memtest86+-4.20.exe.zip

Reply 15 of 54, by xstraski

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Okay, fresh news 🙁
Memtest86+ 2.0 says everything's good.
Disabling CPU internal\external cache does nothing. I've tried changing BIOS settings, and I've tried ICD.exe from the link above. Nothing.
wtf...

Reply 16 of 54, by tayyare

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"Conventional 634K 25K 609K"

Why is your total conventional memory is 634KB? I think there is a problem.

GA-6VTXE PIII 1.4+512MB
Geforce4 Ti 4200 64MB
Diamond Monster 3D 12MB SLI
SB AWE64 PNP+32MB
120GB IDE Samsung/80GB IDE Seagate/146GB SCSI Compaq/73GB SCSI IBM
Adaptec AHA29160
3com 3C905B-TX
Gotek+CF Reader
MSDOS 6.22+Win 3.11/95 OSR2.1/98SE/ME/2000

Reply 17 of 54, by xstraski

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tayyare wrote:

"Conventional 634K 25K 609K"

Why is your total conventional memory is 634KB? I think there is a problem.

Well, I don't know. Any thoughts?

mem shows 634K total conv.
mem/c/p shows 649,216 total conv.

booting pure dos without ANY drivers loaded and running MEM shows 634K of conv.mem too.

btw the bios (award bios) says [standard cmos setup -> base memory] = 640K.

May be it's all because of my IDE controller? (GoldStar Prime 2C 9444)
UPD: I've changed to some UMC controller, MEM still says conv.mem is 634.

Reply 18 of 54, by clueless1

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Maybe running MSD.EXE will give you some clue where that 6K of conventional is going.

xstraski wrote:

These problems appear when I am using 486/Pentium motherboards of 94-96-era.
On Pentium 97-98 motherboards everything OK, but only if I am using DIMM memory.

Do you always use the same hard drive on these builds? Have you tried a different hard drive and fresh DOS install to see if it still shows 634K?

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 19 of 54, by xstraski

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clueless1 wrote:

Maybe running MSD.EXE will give you some clue where that 6K of conventional is going.

xstraski wrote:

These problems appear when I am using 486/Pentium motherboards of 94-96-era.
On Pentium 97-98 motherboards everything OK, but only if I am using DIMM memory.

Do you always use the same hard drive on these builds? Have you tried a different hard drive and fresh DOS install to see if it still shows 634K?

I've tried 2 hard drives, ~800Mb and ~1G, both LBA.
I also have 130 and 170Mb, and I'm going to try them.

MSD shows 634 too.

UPD: I've tested Quantum ProDrive LPS 200Mb and other really old HDD 170Mb.
With the second one I get 640KB, and EMM386 works well with Smartdrv.

So, maybe there's something wrong between these old motherboards and LBA?
I've played with the mode of my 800Mb HDD, changing it to LARGE or NORMAL, didn't help.

Last edited by xstraski on 2016-08-22, 15:43. Edited 5 times in total.