Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Discussion about old PC hardware.

Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby agent_x007 » 2017-2-16 @ 20:41

kenrouholo wrote:Intel 440BX chipset is probably a little more compatible with DOS games and can take Pentium 2 and Pentium 3 (not the latest P3 generation Tualation, though, as far as I am aware - but that's fine).
9800 XT 440BX + Tualatin mini.png
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby kenrouholo » 2017-2-16 @ 20:50

agent_x007 wrote:
kenrouholo wrote:Intel 440BX chipset is probably a little more compatible with DOS games and can take Pentium 2 and Pentium 3 (not the latest P3 generation Tualation, though, as far as I am aware - but that's fine).
9800 XT 440BX + Tualatin mini.png
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And this is why I made sure to point out that I was not certain. But thanks for the information, good to know.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-16 @ 22:00

kenrouholo wrote:All AT power supplies were inefficient and none of them ever ran cool.

AT PSUs actually tended to run their fans at max speed all the time and there are actually Tualatins available that are pin-modded to work in Coppermine boards right away.

Not all Slot 1 boards support Coppermine.

Efficiency isn't really a concern with the very old rigs as these use way less power compared to modern rigs anyway.
meljor wrote:So far:

ti4200 came in agp 4x and 8x flavors. Check your model.

Don't use a card like that in a super socket 7 board, it is a bit risky as it might draw a bit too much from the agp slot for some boards. And it is complete overkill speedwise.

Yes, k6-2, k6-3 etc runs best on super 7 boards (100fsb) but they work also fine on a lot of normal socket 7 boards using the 66 or 75mhz fsb. THAT is what the 2x mult =6x multi is for, so you can use the 66mhz fsb x6 setting and still enjoy 400mhz on an old board. Around twice the speed of a normal pentium.

Not only Intel made great boards, a lot of manufacturers did. I prefer Asus.

When it comes to Bios options, you better stay away from Intel, Compaq, Dell etc.

No brand will give you guaranteed good caps, also not Intel.

Don't make a big deal about the caps. Yes, this stuff becomes old and caps do not live forever. And yes, a lot of times when they LOOK allright they might be, but they can also be non functional.
I have around 40+ retro motherboards and allmost all of them have only original caps and work 100% I Also have a lot of old psu's, AT and ATX and they work fine with original caps still.
Got 100+ graphics cards all working with original caps. So yes, check them, but don't worry too much.

Learn how to recap yourself, so you can fix things cheap and fast in the future.

Enjoy!

^Agreed

OEM boards have way fewer options in BIOS, but for people who don't really care about overclocking and care more about stability over a little bit extra speed, OEM boards may actually be a very good deal (especially when it comes to prices).
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-2-16 @ 23:02

kenrouholo wrote:I'm not aware of any Teapo or Capxon lines that look like that, but there are other bad brands out there. Teapo was one of the most commonly used bad capacitor brands.


Teapo is actually a mid grade capacitor when used appropriately. Certainly not as good as quality Japanese capacitors (absent those few bad batches), definitely not as bad as Chhsi and Fuhjyyu.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby sketchus » 2017-2-16 @ 23:40

Again, thanks for everything everyone. Lots of great information here.

I've actually found an AB BH6 motherboard with CPU for £35. The CPU is only a PII but I'm thinking that's not an issue, in that I can easily swap it out for cheap if needs be. Board looks in good condition + 2 ISA slots, AGP and 5 PCI.

This could be the one to go for?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, my 4200 is actually AGP 8X
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby kenrouholo » 2017-2-17 @ 04:02

sketchus wrote:Again, thanks for everything everyone. Lots of great information here.

I've actually found an AB BH6 motherboard with CPU for £35. The CPU is only a PII but I'm thinking that's not an issue, in that I can easily swap it out for cheap if needs be. Board looks in good condition + 2 ISA slots, AGP and 5 PCI.

This could be the one to go for?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, my 4200 is actually AGP 8X


That board should be OK and will take a P3.

Does your video card have an AGP 3.3v key in addition to the 1.5v one, or only 1.5v?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerat ... Keying.svg

I think Geforce 4 series should still accept 3.3v.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby sketchus » 2017-2-17 @ 09:18

My card has both slots available on the bottom.

EDIT

Went ahead and bought the board. Offered less than asking and they accepted so I'm pretty happy really.

Need to sort out a case and a PSU, i have an old Dell Dimension 2400 case I could use if needs be.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby tayyare » 2017-2-17 @ 12:57

sketchus wrote:My card has both slots available on the bottom.

EDIT

Went ahead and bought the board. Offered less than asking and they accepted so I'm pretty happy really.

Need to sort out a case and a PSU, i have an old Dell Dimension 2400 case I could use if needs be.


Case is the easiest to acquire. Virtually any ATX case since the beginning to today will accept your board happily, as long as it is big enough to hold your board (there are small form factor cases specifically build to accept mini and micro ATX boards, and cannot hold anything bigger).

ATX PSUs are similar in that way, but a bit more complicated to choose from. I'll suggest a modernish ATX PSU, preferably one that can give 20A+ on its 5V rail (for a non AMD build, even this is not that critical, but will be nicer and safer to have). I'm using Thermaltake TR2 500W in both of my retro builds (Pentium MMX and Pentium IIIs) happily, jut to give you an example. If you won't use one of the few specific ISA sound boards that require -5V (Soundblaster 16 and later does not need that for example) you don't need to worry about the lack of -5V output in newer ATX power supplies, either.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby kenrouholo » 2017-2-17 @ 14:37

tayyare wrote:
sketchus wrote:My card has both slots available on the bottom.

EDIT

Went ahead and bought the board. Offered less than asking and they accepted so I'm pretty happy really.

Need to sort out a case and a PSU, i have an old Dell Dimension 2400 case I could use if needs be.


Case is the easiest to acquire. Virtually any ATX case since the beginning to today will accept your board happily, as long as it is big enough to hold your board (there are small form factor cases specifically build to accept mini and micro ATX boards, and cannot hold anything bigger).

ATX PSUs are similar in that way, but a bit more complicated to choose from. I'll suggest a modernish ATX PSU, preferably one that can give 20A+ on its 5V rail (for a non AMD build, even this is not that critical, but will be nicer and safer to have). I'm using Thermaltake TR2 500W in both of my retro builds (Pentium MMX and Pentium IIIs) happily, jut to give you an example. If you won't use one of the few specific ISA sound boards that require -5V (Soundblaster 16 and later does not need that for example) you don't need to worry about the lack of -5V output in newer ATX power supplies, either.


You're right to check the 5v rail but also look at the combined wattage for 3.3v+5v. On some new supplies that is under 100 watts, like say 80 or so. 80 watts is 16 amps at 5v and that would be if you had no load at all on the 3.3. Some aren't quite that bad; you can still get around 120w 3.3+5v with some supplies but that's about as good as it gets currently.

~5 year old Seasonics are around 130w which is fine, and the ATX12v 1.3 Enermax Noisetaker has something like 180w on that for the 285w model and that is SFX (and its 12v is good enough for most retro systems)! It has like 240w on the 375w model. You don't need that much but hey it's pretty good.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby Deksor » 2017-2-17 @ 15:39

Somebody should make a small adapter that would sit in between the PSU 20/24Pins cable and the 20 pins connector of the motherboard so it would re-create -5V and make the 5V rail able to deliver more than what it can nowadays. This would allow us to buy less overkill PSUs and so having them cheaper
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby sketchus » 2017-2-17 @ 16:54

Alrighty, thanks for the info all.

Had a bit of a stroke of luck in that a friend is willing to give me a 2010?ish PC, works fine etc (enthusiast build, not OEM). I'm hoping the PSU and case are useable.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby sketchus » 2017-2-18 @ 13:12

Just one thing,

My TI4200 is AGP8X, does that matter? It has both slots on the bottom.

Additionally, from what I gather the board I have is best not to put sticks of 512mb in, and I'm better off with 128mb. Otherwise is there any other considerations with RAM?
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby sketchus » 2017-2-19 @ 23:14

Sorry for the triple post, but just looking at a sound card.

It's a Atrend ATC-6631

Seller says they have two available, with two variations:

YMF719E-S 9742 ADNA
YMF719E-S 9737 ZATA

Any reason to pick one over the other?

Thanks.

EDIT

Just found our old Windows 98 SE disc tucked away in a cupboard. Nice little bonus.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-20 @ 00:37

sketchus wrote:Just one thing,

My TI4200 is AGP8X, does that matter? It has both slots on the bottom.

Additionally, from what I gather the board I have is best not to put sticks of 512mb in, and I'm better off with 128mb. Otherwise is there any other considerations with RAM?

Which board do you have? If it's a 440BX it will likely work with 256MB SDRAM modules that have 8 (or 9 if ECC) memory chips each side. Make sure you're getting at least PC-100 (PC-133 is fine most of the time) as you will probably be running your BX board with 100MHz FSB.

SDRAM with higher density memory chips will probably kinda work, but at best you'll have only half the total amount of memory detected (and in worse cases your system might be unstable, especially when mixing all kinds of different modules).

And avoid those special server DIMMs, try to get the standard SDRAM.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby sketchus » 2017-2-20 @ 01:46

AB BH6

From what I've read everything you said about the RAM is right, where unless it's the correct density RAM 256MB sticks won't work or won't work properly.

Unfortunately when shopping on ebay I found sellers tend not to specify which type it is.

For now I've bought 2x128mb sticks for super cheap which I know should work, and will try to phase them out as and when I can find sticks I know will work.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-20 @ 09:23

If you intend to build more retro rigs, 256MB PC-133 is always nice to have laying around anyway :)
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby Deksor » 2017-2-20 @ 09:58

I just got my abit BH6 and it works fine with 128MB stick ^^ I did not test other RAM sticks though since as I said, I don't think I need more than 128MB for that build.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby sketchus » 2017-2-20 @ 23:05

Excellent, my RAM should be here tomorrow as well so that's another step toward it!

Got my ISA and PCI soundcards on the way too. Ordered a SBLive! PCI one and the previously mentioned ISA card.

The motherboard itself is mounted in the case and the thing switches on so that's something (haven't connected the GPU yet).

I've also ordered a P3 Coppermine cpu, as it was cheap and will install that as and when.

Something that makes me laugh is googling and seeing people in 2003 using the BH6 and calling it ancient etc.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby sketchus » 2017-2-22 @ 15:45

Well the PC switches in and the memory works etc but...

This Mobo doesn't seem to support HDDs larger than 30 something GB. All I have is 40+. Damn.

Apparently a BIOS update will help but to do that you need a floppy drive which I don't have (other than in this PC).

Bugger.
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Re: Getting started on a Win98 gaming build.

Postby ODwilly » 2017-2-22 @ 16:08

You should be able to pick up a usb floppy drive pretty cheaply. Also alot of later ide HDD's have a jumper setting for 32gb to get around that limitation. For example I have a pair of 200gb Seagate Barracudas with that option.
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