VOGONS


First post, by JTD121

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Recently got myself a Dell Dimension 4100. PIII @ 933MHz, 512MB RAM (apparent max for chipset, 1 DIMM installed), 80GB hard drive, and an ATi Rage Pro 128, 16MB for the video.

Also has some kind of Creative Labs sound card (haven't plugged in any speakers, so I don't know how it sounds/works, etc).

Installed Windows 98SE on it for a bit, and couldn't get it to use a WiFi card I happened to have on-hand, so I tried Windows XP. Currently it's installed, but looks almost like it did an in-place upgrade (not what I wanted to do) or dual-booting 98/XP with XP as default? Not 100% sure on that at this point, it just boots to XP.

Anyway, for some retro gaming that isn't super intensive (DooM, Oregon Trail, Carmen Sandiego, etc) the ATi card in there should be adequate. Not sure why I'm thinking about upgrading it further, other than I can.

I do have a Voodoo 5 5500, which I got for free years ago. I can get the computer to boot with it, but there is something (physically) wrong with the card, so it doesn't display anything. Until now I've had nothing to even attempt to plug it into, so that's not too much of a surprise.

I was thinking either a GeForce 3 Ti500, or GeForce 4 Ti4600 (this only has an AGP 4x slot, so going for the 4800-level cards is kind of moot). Not sure what was equivalent on the ATi side at the time; maybe 9700/9800 Pro/XT?

Reply 1 of 18, by kixs

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I'd go for anything Geforce 4 Ti - even 4200Ti is good enough. ATI had 9500 Pro and 9700 Pro, later 9800 Pro and XT.

Requests here!

Reply 3 of 18, by clueless1

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I have that exact PC. 😀 Mine came with a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card, but otherwise, it's got the same P3-933, 512MB. I can tell you that my 9800 Pro does not work in this system. I'm not sure if the universal AGP slot doesn't pull enough power, but I do know this card works in other systems. Just a heads up for you.

I have a bunch of benchmark results on this system with different video cards (including a Rage 128 Pro). I'd post them, but the spreadsheet format is not conducive to screenshotting. I can PM the spreadsheet to you if you like.

Out of the cards I tested, the GF3 Ti200 is fastest, followed closely by the FX5200 128-bit. But I haven't tested a Ti4xxx, which I'm sure would be the fastest.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 4 of 18, by i486_inside

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clueless1 wrote:

I'm not sure if the universal AGP slot doesn't pull enough power, but I do know this card works in other systems. Just a heads up for you.

I believe the 9800 Pro is an 0.8v AGP 3.0 card, which has the same connector as a 1.5v agp card and would mechanically fit in a 1.5v keyed or universal AGP slot but is not electrically compatible.

Reply 5 of 18, by The Serpent Rider

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Original Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb is an 3.3v/1.5v AGP 8x card.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 6 of 18, by clueless1

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The Serpent Rider wrote:

Original Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb is an 3.3v/1.5v AGP 8x card.

This is the card I have.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 7 of 18, by i486_inside

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I guess there is just something weird with the design of the R(V)350 core 9000-series radeons where they just don't like some older boards, I have a 9600PRO in my possesion but I don't currently have any proper AGP systems, so I tried it in my cheap 845GV box with an "AGP Express" slot and it wouldn't work, AGP express is really just an AGP slot connected to an AGP to PCI bridge of some sort. The motherboard manual says it will work with older 9000 series radeons based on the R300 core like the 9500 and 9700 but not newer cards like the 9600 and 9800. However FX series geforce cards seem to work fine in it.

Reply 8 of 18, by nforce4max

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Safe bet is a GF3 Ti or a GF 4 Ti as anything faster is going to bottleneck much like my dual p3 rdram systems do with my 9800 xt and 7900 gs agp. If you decide to go with newer cards please don't use the uber low end cards like the fx 5200 that had countless millions of budget gamers regretting life.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 9 of 18, by i486_inside

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nforce4max wrote:

If you decide to go with newer cards please don't use the uber low end cards like the fx 5200 that had countless millions of budget gamers regretting life.

P3 will probably be the biggest bottleneck , wouldn't an FX5200/FX5500 be more than enough for a Pentium III.

Reply 10 of 18, by nforce4max

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FX5200/5500 are ok for dx7/8 era games but they are weak sauce and rather use a fancier and faster 4400 or 4600 Ti.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 11 of 18, by i486_inside

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nforce4max wrote:

FX5200/5500 are ok for dx7/8 era games but they are weak sauce and rather use a fancier and faster 4400 or 4600 Ti.

While I don't disagree with that, a 128bit fx5200 or fx5500 would be pretty well on par with a Geforce 3 which is probably about the fastest GPU I would put in a Pentium III system. I would think that a fast Geforce4 card would be bottle necked by the Pentium III and would find better use in a P4 or AXP machine.

Reply 12 of 18, by clueless1

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i486_inside wrote:
nforce4max wrote:

FX5200/5500 are ok for dx7/8 era games but they are weak sauce and rather use a fancier and faster 4400 or 4600 Ti.

While I don't disagree with that, a 128bit fx5200 or fx5500 would be pretty well on par with a Geforce 3 which is probably about the fastest GPU I would put in a Pentium III system. I would think that a fast Geforce4 card would be bottle necked by the Pentium III and would find better use in a P4 or AXP machine.

Agreed. The 128-bit FX5200 works well on this system. I've used it quite a bit and it's on par with the GF3 Ti200, and cheaper and easier to find. It should handle any game that you'd play on a P3-933 system.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 13 of 18, by JTD121

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Ah, so my thinking was correct. I'm not really in this for necessarily a 'period correct' retro computer, though it does lend itself to not pushing any of its stats higher than it can handle.

I'll be on the lookout for a GF3/4 higher-end Ti card then.

Would anyone want this (physically) broken Voodoo 5 5500, then? I know it's physically broken because I can see it; can take pictures if you'd want it as a project. I don't know enough about the electronics to fix the one thing I can see is not working.

Reply 14 of 18, by nforce4max

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How broken is it? I am one of those people who even take systems that have been left out in the rain.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 15 of 18, by appiah4

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Radeon 8500 is time appropriate for the system and both faster than the Ti4200 and looks better (better AF and mipmapping). Get that.

Reply 16 of 18, by Unknown_K

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I purchased a new P3-733 when I purchased my Voodoo 5500 back in the day. Well I had P3-450 but the 5500 would not fit in that old case so figured if I needed a new case might as well buy a new system also.

Anyway when the P3-1000 was popular you would have an ATI 8500 or equivalent Geforce. The 5500 was not around for all that long and died a quick market death. IF you like being different a Kyro 2 would be an alternative.

Collector of old computers, hardware, and software

Reply 17 of 18, by JTD121

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nforce4max wrote:

How broken is it? I am one of those people who even take systems that have been left out in the rain.

Well, it looks about 90% alright, besides some dust. Again, the system booted, and beeped a bunch (didn't look up beep codes) but went on to boot with no display.

Here is the physically broken area that I can see:

kzViCrdl.jpg

Didn't realize this thing was 'broken' so much as just bent a bit? Upon closer inspection after removal, I saw this was actually not bent, but more cracked and tilted? Not sure if repairable, but if you (collective you) want it, just cover shipping. I'll have to find an anti-static bag large enough for it; have plenty of packing material floating about 😀