Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-11 @ 17:13

According to the manual my board supports IDE LBA and IDE 32-bit mode. I'm assuming that would give me at least 2gb with LBA enabled as long as the controller I use doesnt have a separate bios, so my Caviar 1.8gb should work, correct?

The bios (according to the documentation i have) is dated 7/1995, so this boards bios is quite "new" for a 486 VESA board as far as I know. I would expect support for larger than 500mb drives by then, but who knows :cool:
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby jade_angel » 2017-10-11 @ 17:27

Yeah, that should do the trick. That's newer than my JX30GC, which does have LBA support. (It has an integrated VLB disk controller, however.)
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-10-11 @ 22:36

28 bit LBA could be limited to 8.4G, 32G, or 137G depending on the BIOS implementation.
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-12 @ 16:13

Awesome, I should be able to run my old drives then. I also noticed I have a 4 gig compact flash sitting in a camera i never use because the flash bulb died.. Maybe I'll order an ide to flash adapter

137 gigs would be hilarious for a dos lol. Does win95 support fat32? Just curious, this machine is for dos + windows 3
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby jade_angel » 2017-10-12 @ 16:30

Win95 doesn't, but Win98 does (and Win98 will run on a 486, but make sure you have enough RAM, 32MB+). There are a few DOS variations that do too, but all of them have various caveats and limitations. (Also, you get FAT32, you don't get LFN support, mostly.)

You *can*, however, have the first 8GB diced up into partitions for DOS and have the rest allocated to OS/2, Windows NT or something else that groks big disks.
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby chinny22 » 2017-10-12 @ 16:45

If you get a CF adaptor that mounts on a I/O bracket you can swap CF cards like console a cartridge if disk space gets to be an issue.
That's how I do it. C:\ small noisy drive for retro boot sound goodness.
D:\ CF card for games when I'm not actually interesting in hearing the drive
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby KCompRoom2000 » 2017-10-13 @ 05:15

BeginnerGuy wrote:Does win95 support fat32? Just curious, this machine is for dos + windows 3

jade_angel wrote:Win95 doesn't, but Win98 does (and Win98 will run on a 486, but make sure you have enough RAM, 32MB+).

Actually, Windows 95 OSR2.x has built-in FAT32 support. I can confirm this because my OSR2.1 CD formats hard disks larger than 2GB as FAT32 which allowed me to make full use of my 6.4GB and 13GB hard drives without any empty partition space.
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-13 @ 06:15

jade_angel wrote:Win95 doesn't, but Win98 does (and Win98 will run on a 486, but make sure you have enough RAM, 32MB+). There are a few DOS variations that do too, but all of them have various caveats and limitations. (Also, you get FAT32, you don't get LFN support, mostly.)

You *can*, however, have the first 8GB diced up into partitions for DOS and have the rest allocated to OS/2, Windows NT or something else that groks big disks.


That could be fun, though I really have no need to push this system that far since I already have a Slot 1 rig and probably soon S7. Could be interesting to fool around with OS/2 or NT though, that's something I haven't thought about. No matter what though, this computer will only be running one drive as the case I bought is super small, the only space for a hard drive is in the floppy cage unless I get a 5.25 drive bay, but I want a 5.25 floppy too. So I like the idea of one larger drive split up into a couple of 2GB partitions.. Not that I really need that much space :blush:
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-13 @ 06:16

chinny22 wrote:If you get a CF adaptor that mounts on a I/O bracket you can swap CF cards like console a cartridge if disk space gets to be an issue.
That's how I do it. C:\ small noisy drive for retro boot sound goodness.
D:\ CF card for games when I'm not actually interesting in hearing the drive



Is there one like that you can recommend that should work? I've read it's a bit of a gamble with IDE to CF cards, and then another gamble depending on which CF card you use. Hopefully I can buy a combo that works. This idea really stands out to me now that I've seen how tiny the case I'm using is, any space saving will be very nice.

Untitled.png


Here's a quick look at my new case.. It didn't come cheap, but I think that dual bay PCMCIA drive may be worth a decent amount of money if I resell it. The SCSI bay up top doesn't have the caddy in it sadly.

I'm flat broke right now, so it's going to be a bit until I can get anything else (I still need a HDD controller, GPU, and mouse). I'm going to strip out whatever is in this case now and retrobrite it with some salon hair products in the mean time :cool: ...

Oh and any turbo wizards want to take a crack at this for me?? :
photo.jpg


Looks like two columns of 11 jumpers, the left row is labeled D-N and the right is labeled 4-14. There are also two more sets of 3 jumpers down the bottom. I've never seen a setup like this before, I can't think of how it works off hand. So far all I know is that turbo off seems to be set to 08, not sure about on.
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby chinny22 » 2017-10-13 @ 16:26

That case looks like the ones we had in high school, and have shown up here a few times as well.
You can just mess round with the jumpers with the PC turned on. It wont hurt anything.

I don't think My CF adaptor is anything special, It does have a jumper for primary or slave, it was listed as
"40-pin IDE Connector (male) CF to IDE Compact Flash Card Adapter Bootable" but typical Chinese seller isn't on ebay anymore, I got mine 2 years ago
CF cards I got were Sandisk 4GB Ultra, but if your using a real HDD for C:\ then the whole bootable thing isn't an issue anymore anyway!
One thing is AutoDetect doesn't work on my 486, I do have to manually set the parameters in BIOS
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-14 @ 00:20

I'll mess around with the turbo and see what happens.

I've narrowed down that PCMCIA drive to a Sun Microsystems Swapbox PNP dual PCMCIA reader. I tested it out in windows 98 and it auto detected and installed itself once I plugged the SCSI cables into the drive, but it doesn't seem to want to read the one card that I have which is a Trendnet TEW-421PC (wireless G adapter). The Trendnet card works in my Thinkpad with Win98SE but I'm just seeing "slot empty" on this. My luck streak continues :blah:, or maybe this card just doesn't work with it? It says this drive takes Type II and III PCMCIA. I know nothing about these though.

Edit: Got the segmented display set up to 08 / 66.. Was disturbingly easy compared to my old one. Right column controls turbo off segments, left column turbo on. Off to the side are 2 banks of 3 jumpers each which control the top 3 segments for on and off. Ahh.
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-28 @ 00:00

Sigh. No post, no beeps, no nothin. I'm out a lot of money this year and STILL no DOS pc :(. VLB boards are ridiculously expensive on ebay, so I'll have to spend another X amount of time hunting deals and by then I'll lose any chance of returning other parts I just bought.

So I finished out the build by ordering the following:
-Orchid EZ VLB (Cirrus logic GD5430)
-Promise EIDE2300PLUS VLB (IDE controller)
-230W Startech PSU (brand new)

The graphics card and controller are guaranteed to work but now I have very limited time to test them.

- I tested the power supply under stress with a friends pentium mmx 166 (AT board), no problem
- I tested the 16 MB memory I had from my original 486, many passes of memtest, no problem (will post pics of it soon, I'm pretty sure it's double sided non parity FPM 72 pin, will add pics).

I have no way of testing the AM5x86 133, I have no other socket 3 processors or boards on hand and I still don't have a multimeter to test the vrm. Same goes for the controller and video card.

When I started through the manual to check the jumpers, I noticed straight away it was configured absolutely wrong and set for 5v (with the 5x86 in the socket). This board (and all of my parts) were sold to me guaranteed to work, this board was listed as "pulled from working machine". Seller must have been lying, but I bought this way too long ago to do anything about it now. Bios chip gets hot, CPU warms up, power supply fan and my socket 3 heatsink fan power on, lights on keyboard flash one time.

I've tried cleaning and re-seating the bios chip, no dice (does the bios look upside down to you? I can't find any markings to discern it's proper orientation). I've shorted clear CMOS, replaced the CR2032, verified all jumpers multiple times, reseated ram, powered on with nothing, CPU only, CPU + RAM, not so much as a beep. I pulled the board out of the case and tried on a box to make sure it wasn't shorting against the case, nothing.

Sigh, anybody have any miracle potential ideas? I've about had it with my quest for a retro PC but I have to get this one working after all the money invested in the case, PSU, and VLB components.

Will edit with pictures shortly.
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-28 @ 00:43

Here's a couple pictures. I've about had it with this for the day though. I'm assuming I just got myself another dead board :blah:. Sorry for bad pictures, my camera phone is nearly broken and the lighting in this house is a joke. Just posting this all on the off chance somebody can spot something I did wrong.

Documentation on the board: http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboard ... -1-75.html

I've highlighted the cache and bus jumpers, which should reflect 128k l2 cache and 33mhz fsb
boardfront.jpg


Here's the bios.. I get's pretty hot to the touch. There is a notch on the right hand side of the chip, if memory serves me that would put pin 1 at the top right.
bios.jpg


CPU Jumpers.. set for am5x86 133 per the manual that was included with the board.
cpujump.jpg



16MB FPM? Tested working in another PC
ram.jpg


The new VLB cards.. no way to test them, both guaranteed working by sellers.
cards.jpg
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BitWrangler » 2017-10-28 @ 01:39

You seem to have a keylock header, it might need center pins shorting.

edit: yeah damn, according to the socket and the silkscreen the BIOS is upside down. No clue whether it's even the right chip, I HAVE seen "too big" sockets for 64/256kb chips, but no clue if it goes top or bottom or even if this was one and you have the right chip.
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-28 @ 01:49

BitWrangler wrote:You seem to have a keylock header, it might need center pins shorting.

edit: yeah damn, according to the socket and the silkscreen the BIOS is upside down. No clue whether it's even the right chip, I HAVE seen "too big" sockets for 64/256kb chips, but no clue if it goes top or bottom or even if this was one and you have the right chip.


Thanks, I just tried shorting the keylock header but to no avail. I had that plugged in when it was in the case, according to the manual pin 4 is keylock and pin 5 is ground.

Upside down bios.. This is some "pulled from a working unit" board I got myself into :lol: .. Perhaps that explains why it gets so hot when it starts. That prom is getting hotter than the CPU does to the touch. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try to rotate the chip around.

Just found this M912 V1.7 pic online, different marking but looks like the chip is flipped around (unless the sticker on mine is upside down :blah: )
m912v17.jpg



Edit: Flipping around the bios chip as above (left 4 pins open) yields no change and the chip no longer heats up (CPU still heats up). I also tried removing all l2 cache and testing without, still nothing.

I can hear Dr. McCoy in my head telling me it's dead :blush:
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BitWrangler » 2017-10-28 @ 02:27

if you look close the notch in that chip is facing upwards. I think your bios chip could be dead from reverse insertion though because it looks a bit like a burn blister on it, in the close ups from before.
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-28 @ 02:48

BitWrangler wrote:if you look close the notch in that chip is facing upwards. I think your bios chip could be dead from reverse insertion though because it looks a bit like a burn blister on it, in the close ups from before.


Seems like it's just the sticker peeling off a bit, the top of the chip is still smooth. Either way that could explain it. I'm figuring either that or the previous owner fried the CPU running 5v through it. There are no signs of obvious damage anywhere, the entire board seems in immaculate condition. I wish I had equipment for further testing, but it would probably be cheaper for me to just grab a replacement. I was looking forward to messing with a 5x86 on a vlb board :blah:
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby PcBytes » 2017-10-28 @ 05:38

BeginnerGuy wrote:
BitWrangler wrote:if you look close the notch in that chip is facing upwards. I think your bios chip could be dead from reverse insertion though because it looks a bit like a burn blister on it, in the close ups from before.


Seems like it's just the sticker peeling off a bit, the top of the chip is still smooth. Either way that could explain it. I'm figuring either that or the previous owner fried the CPU running 5v through it. There are no signs of obvious damage anywhere, the entire board seems in immaculate condition. I wish I had equipment for further testing, but it would probably be cheaper for me to just grab a replacement. I was looking forward to messing with a 5x86 on a vlb board :blah:

Not all hope is lost. You could track down the MB model and flash another EEPROM for it and check if it's alive.

There's a 5x86 BIOS for the M912 you can grab from here and flash onto a spare EEPROM using another motherboard. You'll have to take care of the orientation though. Looking at your board, the PIN1 notch is on the left, so the notch on the EEPROM must be oriented to the left. This is one reason why the BIOS chip you have in there might be dead for good - it was oriented in reverse and thus recieved voltage on the wrong pins, causing it to burn up, even if you don't see any burn marks.
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2017-10-28 @ 07:09

Thanks for the reply, I'm considering what I'm going to do. I think for now I'm just going to go back to hunting ebay for an affordable board and see what I can do for this one in the future when I have more spending cash. Also another board would make diagnosing parts a bit easier. I don't have an EEPROM burner or any spare boards remotely from this era.

I'm messaging the seller just to point out that it obviously was not a "working pull" too.. :blah:
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Re: Help me pick parts for Socket 3 486 rig (HDD controller, graphics)

Postby CkRtech » 2017-10-28 @ 07:49

Ouch. BeginnerGuy - you have been through a lot of pain with your system work. I've been through a few of your threads, and you face adversity with your parts & just soldier on. So - words of encouragement here for you, because man... sometimes these parts just seem out to get you (didn't you have a case that held a charge and buzzed you when you touched it?).

I am curious what the seller is going to say. Despite the ability to just write another EEPROM in attempt to get going again, the fact of the matter is what you just stated - not a "working pull."

I know that buyer/seller communication can be like walking on pins and needles when it comes to situations like this, but I would push hard for a full refund.
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