VOGONS


First post, by Almoststew1990

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I've got an itch to play DOS games to experience the genesis of Doom, Wolfenstein 3D and Duke Nukem 3D on a real DOS machine. I've built a fairly standard Windows 98 PC (Slot A 800MHz, SBLive, TNT2/Voodoo 3 2000) and had a go at installing and running these games through DOS within Windows. This worked, sort off (rubbish video of some gameplay below)

https://youtu.be/kRU7fnhYzVo

Basically some CPU bound games play too fast, the Soundblaster Pro / 16 emulation seems quite off (for both OPL2 and 3) and and some games wouldn't install at all (although of course the shareware versions I downloaded may be tinkered with). So I want to build a DOS machine! And here is where I need your help:

Should I go with Slot 1 and put a 233 (which I think is the slowest CPU) in it? This would be preferable as I have built a few of these now and can they use ATX powersupplies and cases, PS/2 keyboards and mice, support AGP cards and I have a few coolers hanging around if the CPU doesn't come with one Or would a PC this modern this lead to compatibility issues?

Should I go with Socket 7 and put something like a pentium 100 in it (maybe 166MMX)? I don't have any experience with this era of hardware, can I get an adapter to make my ATX PSUs work with the older style? Would a 166MHz CPU / PCI graphics and 32MB RAM give me maximum compatibility but also smooth framerates?

Should I go "fully retro" and make a 486 (not even sure what socket this is), or would that then be too slow for DN3D etc

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Reply 1 of 9, by badmojo

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New machine time! Fun!

IMO a 486 is fun but parts are harder to come by and not even the fastest 486 can handle SVGA very well - not even a 166MMX can make Duke3D shine at the higher SVGA resolutions.

None of the games you listed should have speed issues and Voodoo3's have great compatibility so what you have actually sounds pretty good to me - sound would be a problem though without an ISA slot.

Of the machines you listed I'd say the Slot 1 would be the most useful for late DOS games - here's what I use to cover that period if it helps:

Pentium 166MMX tower of power
A Voodoo 3, Vortex 2, Slot 1 based Glide machine

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 2 of 9, by Kamerat

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For games supporting general MIDI through a MPU401 interface select MPU401 instead of Sound Blaster for music.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
YouTube channel

Reply 3 of 9, by gdjacobs

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If you had a GFD for your Slot A machine, it would cover a fairly broad speed range for Win98/late DOS game work. I'm actually not sure what the minimum clock would be. If you ever need to look at something slower, socket 7 with a PMMX is excellent due to the wide variety of speeds available and immunity to software like Ultima 7, which is resistant to normal cache tricks.

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Reply 4 of 9, by jheronimus

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What games are you having speed issues with? I don't think any of the builds you've listed will be free of them.

Also, wow SB Live!'s OPL3 emulation sounds weird! Descent's music misses like half the notes, and Doom sounds like there is a hanging note bug of some sort (even though it's not MIDI).

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Reply 5 of 9, by BeginnerGuy

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Consider super socket 7 with a k6-iii+. You can disable l1 and l2 cache as you go to get a huge range of compatibility with CPU bound games. It should cover anything from a 386 all the way up to 9x games.

486 is great if you have the money and the time to hunt for the parts 😊 .. It took me a year to get mine to a half decent state

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Reply 6 of 9, by clueless1

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I second SS7 platform with some fast AMD cpu (K6-2, 2+, III+). I'd take this over a slot 1 because you may need to slow the system down for some games, and slot 1's slow down too much usually (think slow 386). My personal favorite is a 200 or 233MMX Pentium. These have lots of slowdown options, their only weakness is not quite enough horsepower at the top end for some of the latest DOS games in SVGA. So that's why I suggest an AMD K6. Something around 500Mmhz should make those SVGA resolutions more playable, but still be able to slow down at least into 486 territory.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 7 of 9, by gdjacobs

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I agree with clueless, except I'd recommend something with more top end grunt (like your Athlon). Running Duke3d, for example, at high res is very CPU intensive.

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Reply 8 of 9, by amadeus777999

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If you have a CRT at hand you can use a fast 486(133+) since you have the 320x200 option without blurring. Or use an overclocked P1 or standard P2/K6 for something like 640x400(+fastvid or mtrrlfbe) which is high-res but still has a nice crispy look.
On LCDs requiring 1280/1600 you should have a really beefy CPU at hand... an Athlon seems right. I would opt for the highest clockspeed you can find for a cheap price.

Reply 9 of 9, by clueless1

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On the subject of late DOS games, Strike Commander and Stonekeep would be two good choices.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks