VOGONS


First post, by Kampfkoloss

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Hello, I'm planning to build an old Windows 98-PC for gaming (mainly 2D strategy games, Monkey Island 1⁺2, Commander Keen 4-6, but some 3dfx-supported titles like POD, Tomb Raider and Screamer 2 too). Resolution will be at least 800x600, but normally I try to get it to 1280x1024, since that's my monitor's native resolution (19'' HP LP1965 LCD). I know my DOS-Games don't support such high resolutions, but I try to get this running for my Windows-Games. 32bit-color is preferable for me, I set it to 16bit only if I have to.

What I need is some advice what would be smarter in the long run, because future upgrades are possible, once I can afford it again.

Here's the Hardware I have:

Mobo/CPU/RAM:
Aopen AX6BC-EZ (440ZX, Slot1, FSB 66 and 100 only, 512 MB RAM max) and a P3 Katmai 500, 256 MB PC133 SDRAM
Asus CUV4X (Apollo Pro 133A, Socket 370) and a P3 Coppermine 800 (FSB133), 256 MB PC133 SDRAM

Graphics:
ATI Rage128 GL 16 MB
MSI GeforceFX 5200 128
Radeon 8500LE 64MB
Creative Voodoo2 (8MB) for backwards compatibility.

Sound:
Terratec ESSOLO1 PCI (OEM, no Wavetable-Connector!)
SB Live! (first edition with golden contacts, PCI, Digital I/O board is missing)

HDDs:
one 40 GB Seagate
one 80 GB ExcelStor,

Both are IDE100, so it's probably smart to connect the system-HDD to an extra PCI-IDE-Controller (I still have kicking around somewhere)? To boot from that one, I have to set the primary boot device to SCSI, don't I? I've read ExcelStor HDDs suck, because they'd tend to fail pretty often. Has anybody here experience with these?

PSU: Fortron FSP 250W (refurbished, electromyne)

Final thoughts:
The Aopen-Board is a solid one, but it lacks a few features and the Asus, well it has a VIA-Chipset, but it sure is flexible with S370, FSB133-Support (but no Tualatin...) and universal AGP. This one would be nice to build a Voodoo5-System. Both ATI cards have the scrolling bug in commander keen, which is one of my favorite games, so they both have to go... they could be replaced with an Asus V7700 (GF2 GTS) 32, Medion (Aldi) MSI Geforce 3 TI 200 64, or a GF 4 MX 460 64 depending on what CPU I can get in the future (Coppermine 700 to 1000). They are all easy to get cheaply here (Germany). But I think the FX should do an okay job, too. It's just not period correct and it's actually slower than some older cards like GF 4 TI 4200 or GF 3 TI 500. The MX 460 is in between them. The Voodoo is definitely part of the machine. I hope I can get another matching one to build a SLI. Alternatively I'm going for a Voodoo 3 3000 (PCI) for Glide only.

All opinions and any help are highly appreciated. Thanks in advance 😀

Last edited by Kampfkoloss on 2018-06-17, 08:22. Edited 5 times in total.

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Reply 1 of 15, by dionb

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The CUV4X has a Via 686A southbridge. Although not to the same extent at the 686B, it is not very compatible with the Sound Blaster Live. So if you want to use that, the AX6BC-EZ would be a better choice. If the AX6BC-EZ supports Coppermine it would be the better choice, if not, choose what is more important.

Reply 2 of 15, by Kampfkoloss

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Hey, thanks. I didn't know that. The live is one of that components I definitely wanted to use, because it runs well with games in dos-mode. And yes, the mainboard supports Coppermine with the latest BIOS-Update. So I guess this MoBo would make the best base for my system.

Last edited by Kampfkoloss on 2018-06-15, 13:49. Edited 2 times in total.

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Reply 3 of 15, by SW-SSG

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Kampfkoloss wrote:

... I've read ExcelStor HDDs suck, because they'd tend to fail pretty often. Has anybody here experience with these?

These mostly are re-labeled IBM/Hitachi Deskstars, produced after the 75GXP fiasco, and as such should perform well. However, my impression is that they are produced "lower-grade" than equivalent Hitachi models, which tend to be very reliable. tl;dr I'd personally go with the WD.

Reply 4 of 15, by Kampfkoloss

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@SW.SSG Thanks for your advice. I'm going to resell the ES-Hard Drive then.

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Reply 5 of 15, by brostenen

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You really need real OPL for those Dos games. And as you want to play Win98 games, then ditch that SB-Live and go for an YMF-724.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
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Reply 6 of 15, by Kampfkoloss

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brostenen wrote:

You really need real OPL for those Dos games. And as you want to play Win98 games, then ditch that SB-Live and go for an YMF-724.

Thanks. What do you think about this one? It has a yamaha synthesizer (YMF744B) and supports Direct-Sound 3D, A3D and Sensourus 3D-Dynamic-Positioning. The price is pretty good compared to some soundblaster AWE ^.^

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Guillemot-Maxi-Fortis … QgAAOSweEFbH6dR

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Reply 7 of 15, by brostenen

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Kampfkoloss wrote:
brostenen wrote:

You really need real OPL for those Dos games. And as you want to play Win98 games, then ditch that SB-Live and go for an YMF-724.

Thanks. What do you think about this one? It has a yamaha synthesizer (YMF744B) and supports Direct-Sound 3D, A3D and Sensourus 3D-Dynamic-Positioning. The price is pretty good compared to some soundblaster AWE ^.^

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Guillemot-Maxi-Fortis … QgAAOSweEFbH6dR

Looks ok. Personally I prefer the 724, as it is an stereo card. I have absolutely no nostalgic reason for surround. Actually never games with anything else than a two speaker setup. Taste differs though, and surround might be what other people are looking for.

Other than that, then I normally use YMF-718/719 cards, when we are dealing with YMF cards. Like Audician32. Both 718/719, 724 and 744 have OPL core build into the chip, and they deliver sound to rival those Yamaha external midi modules. I find them better than AWE32/64, when running Win9x. In MS-Dos-6.22 I like to use eighter AWE64 or Audician32+DreamblasterS1.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 8 of 15, by gdjacobs

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The ESS Solo 1 is also an excellent DOS sound card for a PCI slot. The Terratec cards should have both a PC/PCI connector and a wavetable header, although they might not both be populated. Fortunately, that's a fairly easy fix -- just break out the iron.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 9 of 15, by Kampfkoloss

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gdjacobs wrote:

The ESS Solo 1 is also an excellent DOS sound card for a PCI slot. The Terratec cards should have both a PC/PCI connector and a wavetable header, although they might not both be populated. Fortunately, that's a fairly easy fix -- just break out the iron.

I'm not sure, if I've understood you correctly, but are you suggesting that I should solder a wavetable-header onto my card?^^ I could try - the soldering-spots are marked, but I've never used a soldering iron before xD

Short update with the parts I'm going to use: I've managed to get a P3 Coppermine 900 MHz with a MSI Master- Slot1-adapter for 16 € (including shipping). I've got a spare copper cooler I'm going to use. That's a quite strong CPU for such a PC. Which Geforce would be best considering, I'm trying to get high resolutions under Windows? I've got an FX5200 (128) right here, but I'm looking for something more period correct.

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Reply 10 of 15, by gdjacobs

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Kampfkoloss wrote:

I'm not sure, if I've understood you correctly, but are you suggesting that I should solder a wavetable-header onto my card?^^ I could try - the soldering-spots are marked, but I've never used a soldering iron before xD

Short update with the parts I'm going to use: I've managed to get a P3 Coppermine 900 MHz with a MSI Master- Slot1-adapter for 16 € (including shipping). I've got a spare copper cooler I'm going to use. That's a quite strong CPU for such a PC. Which Geforce would be best considering, I'm trying to get high resolutions under Windows? I've got an FX5200 (128) right here, but I'm looking for something more period correct.

I don't want to push you into doing something you're uncomfortable with, but soldering is a great skill to have in this racket. If you have some old scrap boards, I recommend practicing so you can become comfortable with heat management, solder behavior, etc.

Also, you'll want a PC/PCI cable if you want to use the AOpen board with either the Solo or a YMF-PCI card. That's the best option for compatibility.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 11 of 15, by Kampfkoloss

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This is the Hardware I'm going to use now.

Pentium 3 Coppermine 900 MHz FSB 100 on MSI Master Slot1-Adapter (Rev. 2) = 17,50 €
Aopen AX6BC-EZ (440ZX) free (Part of my old Siemens-Office-PC, from mid 1999)
512 MB SDRAM (PC133 with CL2) free
Nvidia Geforce 2 GTS 32 MB (Green-Reference PCB in color with mainboard) --> seems to be manufactured by Nvidia themselves, analog signal is pretty good 7 € refurbished
Creative 3D Blaster II 8 MB (Voodoo²) free
Creative SB Live! free
Intel Pro 1000MT NIC 5 €
Seagate 40 GB UDMA 100 HDD on TX100 IDE-PCI-Controller
1x LG CD-RW 5 € (old CDROM only opened when it feeled like it)/ 1x LG DVD-ROM free
Fortron FSP 250W PSU 10 € refurbished
Case: Original Siemens Xpert-Miditower from my old Office-PC free
Display: HP LP1965 (19 inch LCD), don't have room for a CRT now... 🤣
Mouse: MS Intellimouse 1.3A ps/2
Standard ps/2 keyboard
sound: Logitech Z623 🤣

Thanks for your suggestions. If you are interested I can upload some pictures, when I'm on vacation in july. Is it possible to mark this as solved?

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Reply 12 of 15, by oeuvre

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all looks solid to me! have fun

HP Z420 Workstation Intel Xeon E5-1620, 32GB, RADEON HD7850 2GB, SSD + HD, XP/7
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Reply 13 of 15, by chinny22

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Looks like good late dos WIn9x crossover PC
SBLive may still cause problems for dos, but you have an ISA slot to fall back on, but wouldn't worry about it till you've tested all your games.

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Reply 14 of 15, by okenido

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isn't 512MB too much ? I remember back in the days I had a pretty high end W98 setup with 128MB of ram and a PIII 650mhz

Reply 15 of 15, by Kampfkoloss

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Actually you're right: Around 1999 to 2001 128 to 256 were pretty much the maximum already. But I think 512 should be fine. I sure won't run into any memory shortage then 🤣

I was able to get a sb awe64 value ISA-Card (CT4520) for cheap with a year warranty to free up one PCI-Slot - in my last plan they were all occupied, so there wasn't any room for a second voodoo2 😠

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