VOGONS


First post, by athlon-power

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Because none of my Pentium III builds have been working for the past 287.652 years, I've decided to switch gears. I've burned my eyes out completely on Slot 1 based motherboards and CPUs. I've seen so much Slot 1 in my time working with vintage computers that I might as well just specialize in Slot 1 systems at this point and throw all other x86 eras, sockets, and form-factors in the garbage because the only thing I see when I close my eyes are Slot 1 CPU sockets and card CPUs.

The last part is (probably) an exaggeration, but you get my point. Unfortunately, this also means no more Half-Life. I've spent a year and a half trying to build a time-accurate system that can "smoothly," play Half-Life WON, which I nearly was able to do once I got my 32MB TNT2 (non-M64). At this rate, I've been cursed with Slot 1 motherboards, as I now have five of these things in my possession, all of which are in various states of failure and death, or in various states of gaining sentience and craving recycling after realizing that they are being used far out of their prime, and are tired, thus, acting out in ways which they foresee will cause their demise.

I'm in the mood for a PC that uses Windows 95, however, that covers such a broad spectrum that saying I want "a windoz ninti fiv computur," helps nobody. I don't think I want a 486-era machine as if I ever wanted to ever attempt to play GLQuake, or a similar game, I would be met with 15fps gameplay. So, I'm looking at something Socket 7 based, as getting a Socket 5 system with my budget and situation seems to be about as easy as acquiring an M1A1 Abrams tank. I was originally going to build an earlier Pentium II based system, but with the luck I have with Slot 1 motherboards, and the fact that I am honestly getting nearly sick of getting them and having them die for no apparent reason or having them just crash at any opportune time, or having them be essentially DOA. I'm nearly going insane trying to work on this Pentium III build that apparently refuses to work no matter what I do. If I were to keep working on my current project, I'd probably end up ripping my hair out and living out the entirety of the rest of my projected lifespan trying to fix it.

To be honest, this may not even be specific to Slot 1 motherboards. I've also worked on a 2008-era computer, which you would expect to work as it's far more modern, but I somehow buy the components that are just incompatible enough with each other to cause insanity in those who attempt to work on them when they are combined. Maybe I should just buy OEM systems and use them as they were 20 years ago. I still haven't had much bad luck with projects like that, knock on wood. Maybe I should instead ask, "What old OEM systems would you recommend that performed well during their time, in the late-ish Windows 95 era?"

Where am I?

Reply 1 of 6, by Sedrosken

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In my experience Slot-1 as a platform was bulletproof. If you're having such awful issues with it, I have some bad news for you... 😵

Yeah, a Socket 7 machine wouldn't be a bad idea. Be aware of storage pitfalls -- most BIOSes will have issues with drives >~8GB if not even less, and DMA modes are pretty much non-existent on anything less than a PIIX3. But then, you probably already knew that. As for OEM machines, maybe something from Gateway? I don't have any particular models in mind. My PPro machine is a rebuilt G6-180 that's been heavily upgraded to the point that it's not even really a Gateway anymore -- different case, different drives, different cards, different PSU, different CPU... it even has a generic Intel BIOS instead of the customized Gateway one.

Nanto: H61H2-AM3, 4GB, GTS250 1GB, SB0730, 512GB SSD, XP USP4
Rithwic: EP-61BXM-A, Celeron 300A@450, 768MB, GF2MX400/V2, YMF744, 128GB SD2IDE, 98SE (Kex)
Cragstone: Alaris Cougar, 486BL2-66, 16MB, GD5428 VLB, CT2800, 16GB SD2IDE, 95CNOIE

Reply 2 of 6, by athlon-power

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Sedrosken wrote:

In my experience Slot-1 as a platform was bulletproof. If you're having such awful issues with it, I have some bad news for you... 😵

Yeah, a Socket 7 machine wouldn't be a bad idea. Be aware of storage pitfalls -- most BIOSes will have issues with drives >~8GB if not even less, and DMA modes are pretty much non-existent on anything less than a PIIX3. But then, you probably already knew that. As for OEM machines, maybe something from Gateway? I don't have any particular models in mind. My PPro machine is a rebuilt G6-180 that's been heavily upgraded to the point that it's not even really a Gateway anymore -- different case, different drives, different cards, different PSU, different CPU... it even has a generic Intel BIOS instead of the customized Gateway one.

That's the issue. No matter what angle I try to go at it, something goes wrong with every Slot 1 motherboard I've used, in order of aqcuisition:

1st Slot 1 board I ever got was a Socket 370/Slot 1 combo. Bad caps that make the sound card that's integrated and every other sound card go funky. Pentium III Coppermine SL43E (600MHz) Build Biostar M6TWL Refuses to Work With any Sound Card

2nd Slot 1 motherboard is the Gateway Tabor III that crashes at the first bootup with Windows 98 setup even though I've tried every possible avenue of fixing said issue. It was just fine before I started using it recently, after Slot 1 motherboard #3 died. Had the Tabor III for a little over a year now. Windows 98 Setup Crashes on "First Startup"

3rd Slot 1 motherboard was my flagship, an Intel SE440BX-2, in its box. It is dead due to unknown reasons. Just died. It was fine until recently. Power Supply Turns on by Itself

4th Slot 1 motherboard was from a Compaq Presario of some kind. It won't go past the Compaq logo before freezing. Assuming this one to be DOA.

5th Slot 1 motherboard from a Dell Dimension V333c. Likely killed by poor knowledge by myself and poor design by Dell. Dell Dimension V333c- Dumb Proprietary PSU

So yeah, every single vintage system I have is non-functional right now. I might as well be where I was 3 or so years ago at this point, with no vintage PCs but wanting them badly, just with all the "knowledge," I've accumulated during that time period I have now. I would say I know a whole lot more about vintage PCs now, except for the fact that I appear to kill every single piece of vintage hardware within a ~30km radius of myself.

I could look into getting an OEM PC from eBay but they're very expensive, averaging USD$200 at the lowest end of prices, and much, much higher as prices go up. The fact that I can't get anything working is beginning to make me believe that I somehow acquired a curse recently, causing any vintage hardware that comes under my ownership to die. While that's not true, this has been quite maddening, and it's as good as an explanation as any, unless I look at negligence caused by myself, in which case I am inadvertently damaging dwindling amounts of vintage hardware due to my own ignorance and idiocy.

Where am I?

Reply 3 of 6, by FFXIhealer

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If you're interested in something to run the original Half-Life, why not go faster than Slot 1? Why not build an Athlon XP system... or a Pentium 4 system? I heard Pentium 4s are "cheap as chips", as Phil likes to say in his videos. Stick a GeForce 2 or even a GF4 in there and be wicked-fast with Half-Life maybe? Granted, Athlon XP motherboards would probably need a re-cap job like I did on my Socket 476 board, but after that it was rock-solid stable like it was brand new.

The only Slot 1 system I have is my ORIGINAL one from 1999, and it still works perfectly. Then again, I just HAPPENED to have bought one of the best Slot 1 MBs ever made: the ASUS P2B. It uses the 440BX chipset. Swapped the original 350 Pentium II for a 600 Pentium III and threw in dual Voodoo2 cards with a TNT2 and it's a gaming beast for the time period.

My Athlon XP system had a 1.54GHz CPU but I swapped it out to a 2.6GHz one, quadrupled the ram from 512MB to 2GB... but I'm having trouble finding a GOOD AGP graphics card that will work in an AGP 4x slot, because that's all I have. Everything else is PCI-Express.

Got my hands on an old used Micro-ATX 775 motherboard with a Pentium Dual-Core in it. I can easily swap in a proper Core 2 Duo or even this modded Xeon E5450 quad-core as I've already modded the BIOS with the microcode for it. I just don't have another 4GB of DDR2 memory lying around, so it's stuck at 2GB for the moment. Would make a POWERFUL Windows XP gaming rig if I got an old graphics card, like an 8800GTX or even a GTX 260. If I had 4GB I could install Windows Vista and have a powerful Vista gaming rig too.

See? There's lots of "retro" systems. You don't have to limit everything to "486", "Socket 7", etc.

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Reply 4 of 6, by athlon-power

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FFXIhealer wrote:
If you're interested in something to run the original Half-Life, why not go faster than Slot 1? Why not build an Athlon XP syst […]
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If you're interested in something to run the original Half-Life, why not go faster than Slot 1? Why not build an Athlon XP system... or a Pentium 4 system? I heard Pentium 4s are "cheap as chips", as Phil likes to say in his videos. Stick a GeForce 2 or even a GF4 in there and be wicked-fast with Half-Life maybe? Granted, Athlon XP motherboards would probably need a re-cap job like I did on my Socket 476 board, but after that it was rock-solid stable like it was brand new.

The only Slot 1 system I have is my ORIGINAL one from 1999, and it still works perfectly. Then again, I just HAPPENED to have bought one of the best Slot 1 MBs ever made: the ASUS P2B. It uses the 440BX chipset. Swapped the original 350 Pentium II for a 600 Pentium III and threw in dual Voodoo2 cards with a TNT2 and it's a gaming beast for the time period.

My Athlon XP system had a 1.54GHz CPU but I swapped it out to a 2.6GHz one, quadrupled the ram from 512MB to 2GB... but I'm having trouble finding a GOOD AGP graphics card that will work in an AGP 4x slot, because that's all I have. Everything else is PCI-Express.

Got my hands on an old used Micro-ATX 775 motherboard with a Pentium Dual-Core in it. I can easily swap in a proper Core 2 Duo or even this modded Xeon E5450 quad-core as I've already modded the BIOS with the microcode for it. I just don't have another 4GB of DDR2 memory lying around, so it's stuck at 2GB for the moment. Would make a POWERFUL Windows XP gaming rig if I got an old graphics card, like an 8800GTX or even a GTX 260. If I had 4GB I could install Windows Vista and have a powerful Vista gaming rig too.

If I wanted to do something like that, I have large amounts of spare Pentium 4 and Pentium 4 based systems. A Dell Dimension 3000, with everything at stock (at least, in the configuration I have), 2.4GHz P4-Based Celeron, 256MB DDR 400MHz, and Intel GMA graphics of some kind, can run HL1 amazingly. The point of this project in particular was to use period-correct hardware for the GOTY release of Half-Life WON. I also like 90's systems a lot in general- it's very distressing for me to see these old things die, let alone under my own care. That SE440BX-2 was gold to me, which is why I worked on it for days, long after it probably should've been diagnosed dead.

Half-Life may be a component, but having these systems to just use and goof off with is a large reason why I attempt to build these things. I've spent up to two hours listening to MP3s on the SE440BX-2 system I used to have while coding HTML for absurdly old standards or using Visual Basic 6.0 to make crappy applications.

Hell, I even managed to start a stupid "Vintage Gaming Club" at my school where I had my SE440BX-2 system, my Tabor III system, my Dell Dimension 3000, and some Core2Duo Dell Optiplex system hooked up over a LAN where I'd play stuff like Half-Life, Quake III, and GLQuake together with friends who liked older games but didn't really know anything about the old computers themselves in the school library before the end of my Senior year in May.

I had a good run where I had the Tabor III using a Pentium III Coppermine 600MHz, and the SE440BX-2 using the Pentium III Katmai 500MHz. Both systems seem to be non-working now, and it's not like they ended up kicking the bucket for any definitive reason, either; the Tabor III may be fine, but having the amount of failures I've had within the span of a week doesn't make me very optimistic. I have wanted to do an Athlon XP build for a while, but it's a decent upfront cost seeing as I don't have a Socket 462 CPU or motherboard. The first and last time I had a working Socket 462 system, it looked like this:

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I didn't have any spare cases at this point, let alone vintage cases. I wanted a Windows XP era system, what can I say?
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I also learned to apply thermal paste to CPUs with this system. Unsurprisingly, I put the heatsink on backwards, and it cracked the CPU die of an Athlon XP 3000+. While trying to remove the heatsink, my screwdriver also slipped and scratched the motherboard pretty bad, taking a few small components with it. It was a HP OEM board. Think I had a GeForce 5200 256MB AGP card in it and like 512MB or so of PC3200 DDR, and a 40GB WD400 drive.

No, this picture wasn't taken in 2004, it was taken in January of 2018. I'm beginning to miss my old builds like this more and more as time goes by.

[EDIT]

I once built a system to play the 2005 PC release of Juiced. It was an IBM Thinkcentre M52. Capacitors ended up blowing up on this one later on. I still have the motherboard hanging on my wall.

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GeForce 6200 PCI with 512MB of RAM (it really took out of the system RAM), 2GB of DDR2 of some kind, a 160GB WD1600 SATA drive, I believe. Pentium 4 HT 3GHz. Built this sometime in 2016.

Last edited by athlon-power on 2019-07-31, 04:12. Edited 2 times in total.

Where am I?

Reply 5 of 6, by Windows9566

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athlon-power wrote:
That's the issue. No matter what angle I try to go at it, something goes wrong with every Slot 1 motherboard I've used, in order […]
Show full quote
Sedrosken wrote:

In my experience Slot-1 as a platform was bulletproof. If you're having such awful issues with it, I have some bad news for you... 😵

Yeah, a Socket 7 machine wouldn't be a bad idea. Be aware of storage pitfalls -- most BIOSes will have issues with drives >~8GB if not even less, and DMA modes are pretty much non-existent on anything less than a PIIX3. But then, you probably already knew that. As for OEM machines, maybe something from Gateway? I don't have any particular models in mind. My PPro machine is a rebuilt G6-180 that's been heavily upgraded to the point that it's not even really a Gateway anymore -- different case, different drives, different cards, different PSU, different CPU... it even has a generic Intel BIOS instead of the customized Gateway one.

That's the issue. No matter what angle I try to go at it, something goes wrong with every Slot 1 motherboard I've used, in order of aqcuisition:

1st Slot 1 board I ever got was a Socket 370/Slot 1 combo. Bad caps that make the sound card that's integrated and every other sound card go funky. Pentium III Coppermine SL43E (600MHz) Build Biostar M6TWL Refuses to Work With any Sound Card

2nd Slot 1 motherboard is the Gateway Tabor III that crashes at the first bootup with Windows 98 setup even though I've tried every possible avenue of fixing said issue. It was just fine before I started using it recently, after Slot 1 motherboard #3 died. Had the Tabor III for a little over a year now. Windows 98 Setup Crashes on "First Startup"

3rd Slot 1 motherboard was my flagship, an Intel SE440BX-2, in its box. It is dead due to unknown reasons. Just died. It was fine until recently. Power Supply Turns on by Itself

4th Slot 1 motherboard was from a Compaq Presario of some kind. It won't go past the Compaq logo before freezing. Assuming this one to be DOA.

5th Slot 1 motherboard from a Dell Dimension V333c. Likely killed by poor knowledge by myself and poor design by Dell. Dell Dimension V333c- Dumb Proprietary PSU

So yeah, every single vintage system I have is non-functional right now. I might as well be where I was 3 or so years ago at this point, with no vintage PCs but wanting them badly, just with all the "knowledge," I've accumulated during that time period I have now. I would say I know a whole lot more about vintage PCs now, except for the fact that I appear to kill every single piece of vintage hardware within a ~30km radius of myself.

I could look into getting an OEM PC from eBay but they're very expensive, averaging USD$200 at the lowest end of prices, and much, much higher as prices go up. The fact that I can't get anything working is beginning to make me believe that I somehow acquired a curse recently, causing any vintage hardware that comes under my ownership to die. While that's not true, this has been quite maddening, and it's as good as an explanation as any, unless I look at negligence caused by myself, in which case I am inadvertently damaging dwindling amounts of vintage hardware due to my own ignorance and idiocy.

I'm sorry that your retro PCs are dropping like flies, IDK why they are. I had similar issues with my Tabor III, it just wanted to die one day similar to your SE440BX-2. i recycled it and threw in a ASUS P2B into my Pentium 2 400 build.

Last edited by Windows9566 on 2019-07-31, 04:23. Edited 1 time in total.

R5 5600X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3060 TI, Win11
P3 600, 256 MB RAM, nVidia Riva TNT2 M64, SB Vibra 16S, Win98
PMMX 200, 128 MB RAM, S3 Virge DX, Yamaha YMF719, Win95
486DX2 66, 32 MB RAM, Trident TGUI9440, ESS ES688F, DOS

Reply 6 of 6, by athlon-power

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Windows9566 wrote:

I'm sorry that your retro PCs are dropping like flies, IDK why they are.

Thanks, I hope I'll be able to prevent more of this from happening once I get new parts. All in all, this has been nearly USD$200, if the Tabor III really is gone. It may have been spent a long time ago, but it still has been bothering me quite severely lately. I think this post was made more to whine about all of my stuff dying than to get ideas for new builds more than anything else.

I may make an Athlon XP build of some kind, though. I'm open to other ideas as well, as I'm now essentially starting from scratch.

Where am I?