Celerons 400s are fine. I have one with that served as the home ppp gateway. Still have it. You can replace the cpu at some stage if you feel you need to. You can make 98FE the equivalent to SE and a bit more by installing the unofficial fixpack the universal usb mass storage update. But depending on what any of them were used for the OS may well be a mess over time. Though I never had to reinstall 98FE on my system over the 8 years it was in use. The P166MMX will cover most Dos stuff and early Win9x.

Are you sure those horizontal desktops have AT motherboards? That period and design suggest LPX would be more likely. This is relevant as AT is easily interchangeable whereas LPX boards are rarer and have non-interchangeable riser cards, so if you want/need to replace motherboard things are far more complicated than with AT or ATX.

If that's the case (pun intended), the two minitowers are probably better ideas. Given that they are also the cheapest it strikes me as a no-brainer.

One other point is motherboard. Do you have any info on that? That determines the answer to questions 1 and 3. If the video is soldered onboard, you're stuck with it (or need PCI VGA cards), it's the motherboard that determines upgrade options. Celeron 400 could be on a nice new BX board with coppermine support and AGP, or a crappy PPGA motherboard with LX/EX chipset and that S3 Trio onboard.

As for Windows, the P1 needs more RAM (Win98 wants at least 24MB and likes over 64MB), but SE is always preferable over FE in my opinion.

dionb wrote:

Are you sure those horizontal desktops have AT motherboards? That period and design suggest LPX would be more likely. This is re […]
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Are you sure those horizontal desktops have AT motherboards? That period and design suggest LPX would be more likely. This is relevant as AT is easily interchangeable whereas LPX boards are rarer and have non-interchangeable riser cards, so if you want/need to replace motherboard things are far more complicated than with AT or ATX.

If that's the case (pun intended), the two minitowers are probably better ideas. Given that they are also the cheapest it strikes me as a no-brainer.

One other point is motherboard. Do you have any info on that? That determines the answer to questions 1 and 3. If the video is soldered onboard, you're stuck with it (or need PCI VGA cards), it's the motherboard that determines upgrade options. Celeron 400 could be on a nice new BX board with coppermine support and AGP, or a crappy PPGA motherboard with LX/EX chipset and that S3 Trio onboard.

As for Windows, the P1 needs more RAM (Win98 wants at least 24MB and likes over 64MB), but SE is always preferable over FE in my opinion.

Hi, thanks for the feedback.
Yes, the ad says AT mobo and also from the photo i think it's correct, it's not a very clear one but that's what it appears to be.
If i put WIN95 on the P1 MMX , the 16MB RAM should be enough, right?

kasper21 wrote:

Hello all, […]
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Hello all,

I plan on getting some retro PCs and would like some opinions and ideas on some setups I have found.
The setups are as following:

COMPUTER 1 : - Pentium MMX 166Mhz / Cirrus Logic 5430 1MB PCI card / 16 MB SDRAM / HDD 2.4GB / CDROM. running WIN98 FE.
- apparently it does not have a Sound Card so I will have to get one as well.
- AT type motherboard in a MiniTower
- 40$ price

This board will be fine as a period correct Win9x machine, but it's even better if you want to maximize compatibility. The PMMX CPU has registers that can be tweaked to achieve a whole bunch of intermediate speeds, all the way down to a mid-range 386 equivalent.

gdjacobs wrote:

kasper21 wrote:

Hello all, […]
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Hello all,

I plan on getting some retro PCs and would like some opinions and ideas on some setups I have found.
The setups are as following:

COMPUTER 1 : - Pentium MMX 166Mhz / Cirrus Logic 5430 1MB PCI card / 16 MB SDRAM / HDD 2.4GB / CDROM. running WIN98 FE.
- apparently it does not have a Sound Card so I will have to get one as well.
- AT type motherboard in a MiniTower
- 40$ price

This board will be fine as a period correct Win9x machine, but it's even better if you want to maximize compatibility. The PMMX CPU has registers that can be tweaked to achieve a whole bunch of intermediate speeds, all the way down to a mid-range 386 equivalent.

Yes, indeed, adjusting the Caches to achieve lower compatibility for 386/486.
Should i increase the RAM on it for WIN95? maybe at least 32megs?
My goal is to use some old software also , not just games. Old graphics programs like Photoshop, CorelDRAW, PageMaker and others, just want to play around with the old versions, so compatibility and stability as a Retro Workstation is also on my mind.

kasper21 wrote:

Yes, the ad says AT mobo and also from the photo i think it's correct, it's not a very clear one but that's what it appears to be.
If i put WIN95 on the P1 MMX , the 16MB RAM should be enough, right?

If the ad just says 'AT mobo', then expect to get something crappy (i.e. feature/quality/condition wise). If it's any good, then the seller would certainly advertise the model name, unless the seller doesn't know what he's doing.

Yes, 16MB RAM is enough for Win95, but you might need 32-64MB for some games (although the Pentium MMX is probably going to struggle with such demanding games). RAM is cheap, so it's not an issue.

kasper21 wrote:

Yes, indeed, adjusting the Caches to achieve lower compatibility for 386/486.
Should i increase the RAM on it for WIN95? maybe at least 32megs?
My goal is to use some old software also , not just games. Old graphics programs like Photoshop, CorelDRAW, PageMaker and others, just want to play around with the old versions, so compatibility and stability as a Retro Workstation is also on my mind.

Not just caches. TR12 flags can disable half the integer pipeline and branch prediction as well.

As for RAM, there's no reason not to go up to the cacheable limit. For VX and TX chipsets (which were the chipsets Intel had for socket 7 that supported SDRAM), that limit is 64mb.

kasper21 wrote:

My questions would be: 1. What should I choose between the P2 machine and the Celeron machine? The Celeron seems more packed wit […]
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My questions would be:
1. What should I choose between the P2 machine and the Celeron machine? The Celeron seems more packed with parts and is also a little cheaper but I never had one and know that people have mixed feelings about Celerons. WHat do you think? I am trying to be relatively periodically correct so I am thinking of getting the Pentium MMX and Pentium III for sure but can't decide on the middle Pentium II vs Celeron...
2. for OS my plan is to put WIN95 on the 166MMX, WIN98 for the P2 and WINME for the P3. question: should i bother switching from WIN98 FE to SE if the machine already has FE ? is it worth it?
3. In case I get the Pentium II machine, is the Matrox video card right for it? does it need a higher FSB Deschute Pentium2 for it?

I would go for the PMMX and a fast PIII (maybe you can upgrade the CPU of the Fujitsu). Anything in between is just 'nice' to have for nostalgic reasons (leaving a SS7 system out of the equation for this moment).

1) This Celeron can be under- and overclocked (underclocking only with software), so that's a plus. Same is true for the PII 333. Both are quite competitive compared with contemporary AMD CPU's and perform well in contemporary games.
2) GIYF
3) It will work fine as it is.

Thanks so much guys!
I will definitly try and get the 166MMX and the P3, and try to find out more about that P2 just to analyze properly.
The seller seems to know his stuff but probably didn't care that much at the moment and put out a sloppy ad, without much tech details. I will reach out to him to find out more. The good news is that it's not in trashy condition, everything has been cleaned, reconditioned or replaced, so at least it's in good working shape, even if it's probably a crappy cheap motherboard. If so i will probably try and upgrade it with time as i find more parts and oportunities.

Just as a fun fact, I really want to get that MMX setup because it has the exact same case as my first PC i got back in '96-97 except it had a Cyrix 6x86 CPU. Never seen a case like that ever since and this one just caught my full attention. Instant flashback !

This is the machine, probably you guys seen a lot of these over time but I personally never saw one the same since then.

Boosting Win95 up to 32megs or even 64megs. Application you mentioned will benefit from it. The stuff is as cheap as chips. My current P166MMX set up has 256megs 😀 The case looks neat. Good to see you are interested in using these systems for more than gaming 😀

One thing to remember is if you want decent usb support the better route is win98SE with USB mass storage upgrade. It can be trimmed down quite easily in size comparative to Win 95 OSR 2.* quite easily. Handy if you add a USB 2.0 pci adapter which I have done.

Caluser2000 wrote:

Boosting Win95 up to 32megs or even 64megs. The stuff is as cheap as chips. My current P166MMX set up has 256megs 😀 The case looks neat. Good to see you are interested in using these systems for more than gaming 😀

One thing to remember is if you want decent usb support the better route is win98SE with USB mass storage upgrade. It can be trimmed down quite easily in size comparative to Win 95 OSR 2.* quite easily. Handy if you add a USB 2.0 pci adapter which I have done.

THank you for the heads up, I definitly want to make some storage addons later for more quick and easy file transfer, I don't want to go back to burning hundreds of CDs like back in the day just to test programs or games. So I am thinking of getting one of those USB PCI adapters or maybe a CF card - IDE one. or an SD card to IDE maybe? the cards will be for an extra partition, I will install the OS on the local HDD and swap the cards for file transfer. Btw, which option do you think is best, install the OS on the good ol' HDD (most likely IDE or SCSI) or try and put the OS on a CF / SD card? i should be able to make that happen with one of those adapters but I kind of want to keep it oldschool somehow regarding the OS. For File transfer definitly going for one of the options above.

If you have spare spinning rust capable of being run on the system I'd use it. Just make sure once set up to your liking make a couple of backups. Smaller SSDs are getting cheaper so one of these and a suitable adapter would be well worth it in the long run. I don't like using SD or CF cards as boot drives but that is just me. For storing data and back ups fine.

Easy file transfers? add a network card, Some cheap 100MB will be more then fine for Dos/Win9x. Personally I find its easier/more reliable then USB.
I found I missed the sound of a HDD spinning at boot so always install windows on a real HDD.
For old systems with small HDD limits (Like the MMX) I have a 2nd drive for games on a CF card.
For the other systems in your list if you don't have any IDE drives already I'd go down the IDE to Sata adapters and use Sata HDD's as they are much easier to find and cheaper $1 to MB ratio then CF.

Thinking of getting one these kits instead of the P3 500mhz machine.
What do you guys think on these 2 kits:

KIT 1 : - CPU Intel Pentium 3 700Mhz, FSB100, 256k L2, Coppermine + cooler
- MB ATX socket370 - Wincor Nixdorf WN-EMB 1.0, chipset VIA Apollo 133A, 1xAGP, 5xPCI, 1xISA, 3xSDRAM, 2xIDE, INTEGRATED SOUND & VIDEO
- 256MB SDRAM PC133
- price aprox. 16$

KIT 2: - CPU Intel Pentium 3 800Mhz, FSB 133Mhz, 256k L2, Coppermine + cooler
- MB ATX socket 370 - Intel Desktop Board D815EEA, chipset Intel 815EP, 1xAGP4X, 5xPCi, 2xIDE ATA66, 1xFDD
- 256MB SDRAM PC133
- price aprox. 21$

Are these decent motherboards?
I am inclining towards the 800mhz kit because of the 133 FSB that goes with the 133 RAM also.
Will it be too much for full 90s-early 2000s compatibility? or should i stick to a lower clock speed to have that ?
Also what Video Cards would you recommend to add to these kits, I always wanted a VOODOO3 3000 but I can't seem to find one in good shape and reasonable price. Any other decent variants to be period correct for these P3 kits?

The second kit is an i815 and will have no ISA slots so it will be slightly problematic to get working with DOS games (You will need to find some select PCI sound cards for the purpose). The first kit is a more backwards compatible chipset but it's also a rather problematic chipset; I personally like it despite its quirks but you will have more trouble finding cards that play well with its AGP implementation.

kasper21 wrote:

Thinking of getting one these kits instead of the P3 500mhz machine. What do you guys think on these 2 kits: […]
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Thinking of getting one these kits instead of the P3 500mhz machine.
What do you guys think on these 2 kits:

KIT 1 : - CPU Intel Pentium 3 700Mhz, FSB100, 256k L2, Coppermine + cooler
- MB ATX socket370 - Wincor Nixdorf WN-EMB 1.0, chipset VIA Apollo 133A, 1xAGP, 5xPCI, 1xISA, 3xSDRAM, 2xIDE, INTEGRATED SOUND & VIDEO
- 256MB SDRAM PC133
- price aprox. 16$

Something not right here. The ApolloPro133A chipset doesn't have integrated video. Possibly there is onboard video on the motherboard, but in that case there probably wouldn't be an AGP slot.

Edit:
Looks like this ad:
https://www.olx.ro/oferta/kit-sk370-intel-pen … html#351df25403

If so, it does have integrated video and an AGP slot. Conclusion must be that it's not an ApolloPro133a, rather a Via ProSavage PM133 chipset. I'm not aware of its performance - using integrated video it will be crap as always, without integrated video it might be as good as ApolloPro133A, but not sure of that. It certainly supports 133MHz FSB.

In any event the ISA slot is very nice.

KIT 2: - CPU Intel Pentium 3 800Mhz, FSB 133Mhz, 256k L2, Coppermine + cooler - MB ATX socket 370 - Intel Desktop Bo […]
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KIT 2: - CPU Intel Pentium 3 800Mhz, FSB 133Mhz, 256k L2, Coppermine + cooler
- MB ATX socket 370 - Intel Desktop Board D815EEA, chipset Intel 815EP, 1xAGP4X, 5xPCi, 2xIDE ATA66, 1xFDD
- 256MB SDRAM PC133
- price aprox. 21$

Better stuff. Intel boards are famously stable and fast enough at default settings - just few options to do anything outside of those defaults, however that Nixdorf board isn't an over/underclockers dream either. This will definitely be faster, its only disadvantages are no ISA and the 512MB RAM limit of the i815(EP) chipset.

Also what Video Cards would you recommend to add to these kits, I always wanted a VOODOO3 3000 but I can't seem to find one in good shape and reasonable price. Any other decent variants to be period correct for these P3 kits?

Depends on desired OS and performance. Voodoo3 would be period correct, but would cost at least EUR 65 or so. You can get other stuff cheaper, a TNT2 would be period-correct and faster, just no Glide. Or you could go for a Matrox G400 for EMBM and similar performance.

Ok, I don't want to overclock / underclock this system because for DOS games i will be using the 166MMX to cover that period.
So for later 90s, early 2000s games and software is the INTEL board a good choice ? this will be the more "modern" machine from the bunch.

kasper21 wrote:

So for later 90s, early 2000s games and software is the INTEL board a good choice ?

It's a really solid option for running a P3 and arguably better than the VIA board. However, the 815 chipset came along at a time that AMD was beginning to eat Intel's lunch with Athlon / Socket A options.

This is just me, but I would prioritize the case first, then worry about the guts. You seem set on the MMX, which I agree would be a great machine to have in any retro setup. So that leaves the PII/III...

If that Celeron mini-tower is a standard form factor, that would sway me that direction. But, if the Intel PIII is in a case you like, that's the clear winner, IMO. I know you're not enthusiastic about having to fish for more parts down the road, but mobos, CPUs, video cards, sound cards, HDDs.. they come and go, and you can always piece together stuff as you find it. A case... a case is forever! 😁

Wouldn't worry about lack of ISA on a PIII. You have the MMX for DOS. Windows won't care, and PCI is technically the better option for everything except (way-)backwards compatibility. Grab an SB Live! and you're good to go.

CF vs HDD is a religious debate. IMO, it's not retro if it doesn't have a hard disk, but either gets the job done, and even I'll admit that when you're listening to bearings fail and watching Scandisk count clusters going bad, flash does have some kind of appeal.