Your question would be easier to answer if you could provide an actual part number off the BIOS chip .

Programming an EEPROM is usually quite easy with a compatible programmer .

darry wrote on 2020-07-20, 05:16:

Your question would be easier to answer if you could provide an actual part number off the BIOS chip .

Programming an EEPROM is usually quite easy with a compatible programmer .

So what I actually want to do is swap this AMI bios with a socket-compatible AWARD bios, so I can go from a Compaq bios to the board manufacturer (FIC) BIOS. Think it's possible? I have found AWARD chips on ebay that look socket compatible.

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 05:36:

darry wrote on 2020-07-20, 05:16:

Your question would be easier to answer if you could provide an actual part number off the BIOS chip .

Programming an EEPROM is usually quite easy with a compatible programmer .

So what I actually want to do is swap this AMI bios with a socket-compatible AWARD bios, so I can go from a Compaq bios to the board manufacturer (FIC) BIOS. Think it's possible? I have found AWARD chips on ebay that look socket compatible.

That looks like a bog-standard PLCC32 EEPROM. To flash you need an EEPROM flasher and PLCC32 adapter.

As for the EEPROM chip, most important thing is to get the size right. Most BIOS from this era are 1, 2 or 4Mbit. Check the image file size and choose accordingly. "Award" and "AMI" are BIOS software companies, not chip types - and you're going to flash whatever's on the chip off it, so completely irrelevant what kind of BIOS (if any) was previously on it.

And will it work? One way to find out... sometimes it does (MSI MS-6168 can work equally well with Packard Bell Award BIOS and retail AMI), sometimes it does not (Dell SE440BX boards do not like retail Intel BIOS - it screws up device ID of onboard devices). But if you still have the working original BIOS, there's no reason not to try.

Then again: what do you expect to gain with a retail BIOS?

dionb wrote on 2020-07-20, 07:38:

That looks like a bog-standard PLCC32 EEPROM. To flash you need an EEPROM flasher and PLCC32 adapter. […]
Show full quote

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 05:36:

darry wrote on 2020-07-20, 05:16:

Your question would be easier to answer if you could provide an actual part number off the BIOS chip .

Programming an EEPROM is usually quite easy with a compatible programmer .

So what I actually want to do is swap this AMI bios with a socket-compatible AWARD bios, so I can go from a Compaq bios to the board manufacturer (FIC) BIOS. Think it's possible? I have found AWARD chips on ebay that look socket compatible.

That looks like a bog-standard PLCC32 EEPROM. To flash you need an EEPROM flasher and PLCC32 adapter.

As for the EEPROM chip, most important thing is to get the size right. Most BIOS from this era are 1, 2 or 4Mbit. Check the image file size and choose accordingly. "Award" and "AMI" are BIOS software companies, not chip types - and you're going to flash whatever's on the chip off it, so completely irrelevant what kind of BIOS (if any) was previously on it.

And will it work? One way to find out... sometimes it does (MSI MS-6168 can work equally well with Packard Bell Award BIOS and retail AMI), sometimes it does not (Dell SE440BX boards do not like retail Intel BIOS - it screws up device ID of onboard devices). But if you still have the working original BIOS, there's no reason not to try.

Then again: what do you expect to gain with a retail BIOS?

It's newer than the Compaq one, and I hope might support legacy audio (has ess solo on board) as well as Via C3 processors. The retail board uses AWARD so I guess it must support it. Is there nothing else on the board which affects which bios? Like a jumper or something?

You could use a pen knife to carefully peel off the sticker partially to read the part number off the chip. Then just buy a compatible one and "hot flash" it. If anything goes wrong just pop back in the old one.

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 07:51:

[...]

It's newer than the Compaq one, and I hope might support legacy audio (has ess solo on board) as well as Via C3 processors. The retail board uses AWARD so I guess it must support it.

If the board is 100% identical it might, but again, if they use different PCI IDs, you might not be able to load any drivers.

Is there nothing else on the board which affects which bios? Like a jumper or something?

You might want to share info on exactly which board we're talking about when asking questions like that...

dionb wrote on 2020-07-20, 08:35:

If the board is 100% identical it might, but again, if they use different PCI IDs, you might not be able to load any drivers. […]
Show full quote

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 07:51:

[...]

It's newer than the Compaq one, and I hope might support legacy audio (has ess solo on board) as well as Via C3 processors. The retail board uses AWARD so I guess it must support it.

If the board is 100% identical it might, but again, if they use different PCI IDs, you might not be able to load any drivers.

Is there nothing else on the board which affects which bios? Like a jumper or something?

You might want to share info on exactly which board we're talking about when asking questions like that...

Oh it's a FIC CE31-A. Information, including manuals, is hard to come by. It's a Compaq OEM version. The bios I want to load is 2Mbit. not sure how big the current chip is. I will look at a PLCC32 programmer on eBay. I am planning on running pure DOS on this one, so not so concerned about drivers, but I take your point.

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 08:57:

[...]

Oh it's a FIC CE31-A. Information, including manuals, is hard to come by. It's a Compaq OEM version.

Awful board, but looks like it's possible https://www.elhvb.com/ctechinfo/model/CE31-A/CE31-A.php

The bios I want to load is 2Mbit. not sure how big the current chip is.

Doesn't matter, unless you want to flash that chip - which I wouldn't recommend: keeping a known-good backup option is a very good idea.

I will look at a PLCC32 programmer on eBay.

The TL866II Plus is generally the best option. It has a DIP-socket on top, but is usually sold with various adapters including PLCC32.

I am planning on running pure DOS on this one, so not so concerned about drivers, but I take your point.

The ESS Solo-1 chip is a PCI chip and requires drivers under DOS, so it can still go wrong.

dionb wrote on 2020-07-20, 10:21:

Awful board, but looks like it's possible https://www.elhvb.com/ctechinfo/model/CE31-A/CE31-A.php […]
Show full quote

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 08:57:

[...]

Oh it's a FIC CE31-A. Information, including manuals, is hard to come by. It's a Compaq OEM version.

Awful board, but looks like it's possible https://www.elhvb.com/ctechinfo/model/CE31-A/CE31-A.php

The bios I want to load is 2Mbit. not sure how big the current chip is.

Doesn't matter, unless you want to flash that chip - which I wouldn't recommend: keeping a known-good backup option is a very good idea.

I will look at a PLCC32 programmer on eBay.

The TL866II Plus is generally the best option. It has a DIP-socket on top, but is usually sold with various adapters including PLCC32.

I am planning on running pure DOS on this one, so not so concerned about drivers, but I take your point.

The ESS Solo-1 chip is a PCI chip and requires drivers under DOS, so it can still go wrong.

Thanks I'll look at that. I understood that legacy audio support in BIOS typically meant no drivers. Only one way to find out!

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 10:33:

dionb wrote on 2020-07-20, 10:21:

Awful board, but looks like it's possible https://www.elhvb.com/ctechinfo/model/CE31-A/CE31-A.php […]
Show full quote

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 08:57:

[...]

Oh it's a FIC CE31-A. Information, including manuals, is hard to come by. It's a Compaq OEM version.

Awful board, but looks like it's possible https://www.elhvb.com/ctechinfo/model/CE31-A/CE31-A.php

The bios I want to load is 2Mbit. not sure how big the current chip is.

Doesn't matter, unless you want to flash that chip - which I wouldn't recommend: keeping a known-good backup option is a very good idea.

I will look at a PLCC32 programmer on eBay.

The TL866II Plus is generally the best option. It has a DIP-socket on top, but is usually sold with various adapters including PLCC32.

I am planning on running pure DOS on this one, so not so concerned about drivers, but I take your point.

The ESS Solo-1 chip is a PCI chip and requires drivers under DOS, so it can still go wrong.

Thanks I'll look at that. I understood that legacy audio support in BIOS typically meant no drivers. Only one way to find out!

Actually under dos you need drivers for, sound, mouse, CD ROM, and I'm sure other devices. Basically DOS needs drivers for them as Dos doesn't include native drivers.

dionb wrote on 2020-07-20, 07:38:

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 05:36:

darry wrote on 2020-07-20, 05:16:

Your question would be easier to answer if you could provide an actual part number off the BIOS chip .

Programming an EEPROM is usually quite easy with a compatible programmer .

So what I actually want to do is swap this AMI bios with a socket-compatible AWARD bios, so I can go from a Compaq bios to the board manufacturer (FIC) BIOS. Think it's possible? I have found AWARD chips on ebay that look socket compatible.

That looks like a bog-standard PLCC32 EEPROM. To flash you need an EEPROM flasher and PLCC32 adapter.

As for the EEPROM chip, most important thing is to get the size right. Most BIOS from this era are 1, 2 or 4Mbit. Check the image file size and choose accordingly. "Award" and "AMI" are BIOS software companies, not chip types - and you're going to flash whatever's on the chip off it, so completely irrelevant what kind of BIOS (if any) was previously on it.

It's not just about size. There are three kinds of PLCC32 EEPROMs in use in PC hardware. They can be parallel 8-bit flash chips with exactly the same electrical function as DIP32 chips, or they might support the newer low-pin-count protocol, which requires just 4 data pins, one synchronization pin and a clock pin. It's a kind of packetized ISA with packets consisting of several 4-bit transfers. Intel introduced LPC with their hub architecture in the 800 series chipset. The LPC BIOS chips for Intel chipsets do not respond to standard "memory read" LPC transactions, but only to special separate "firmware read/write" transactions. This creates a separate firmware address space on the LPC bus, and it depends on the configuration of the south bridge whether the firmware space is mapped into the processor memory address space or not. Intel competitors stayed with parallel flash chips for some time, before they switched over to using LPC-connected flash chips. But non-intel boards do not use "firmware read/write", but standard "memory read/write" commands.

So if you are to get a flash chip for your board, make sure you know whether you need a parallel flash chips, an LPC flash chip that responds to firmware access commands or an LPC flash chip that responds to memory access comands. If you happen to have a working flash update utility for your computer, that utility most likely shows the detected flash chip type. You can use the type number to search for compatible chips. If you don't have a vendor flash program, you can give the open-source linux tool "flashrom" a try, it supports a probe operation that tries to detect your flash chip and prints the model number, too. IIRC it also prints the type (parallel/LPC/FWH; LPC means LPC protocol with memory cycles and FWH (firmware hub) means LPC protocol with firmware cycles).

mkarcher wrote on 2020-07-20, 19:36:

dionb wrote on 2020-07-20, 07:38:

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 05:36:

So what I actually want to do is swap this AMI bios with a socket-compatible AWARD bios, so I can go from a Compaq bios to the board manufacturer (FIC) BIOS. Think it's possible? I have found AWARD chips on ebay that look socket compatible.

That looks like a bog-standard PLCC32 EEPROM. To flash you need an EEPROM flasher and PLCC32 adapter.

As for the EEPROM chip, most important thing is to get the size right. Most BIOS from this era are 1, 2 or 4Mbit. Check the image file size and choose accordingly. "Award" and "AMI" are BIOS software companies, not chip types - and you're going to flash whatever's on the chip off it, so completely irrelevant what kind of BIOS (if any) was previously on it.

It's not just about size. There are three kinds of PLCC32 EEPROMs in use in PC hardware. They can be parallel 8-bit flash chips with exactly the same electrical function as DIP32 chips, or they might support the newer low-pin-count protocol, which requires just 4 data pins, one synchronization pin and a clock pin. It's a kind of packetized ISA with packets consisting of several 4-bit transfers. Intel introduced LPC with their hub architecture in the 800 series chipset. The LPC BIOS chips for Intel chipsets do not respond to standard "memory read" LPC transactions, but only to special separate "firmware read/write" transactions. This creates a separate firmware address space on the LPC bus, and it depends on the configuration of the south bridge whether the firmware space is mapped into the processor memory address space or not. Intel competitors stayed with parallel flash chips for some time, before they switched over to using LPC-connected flash chips. But non-intel boards do not use "firmware read/write", but standard "memory read/write" commands.

So if you are to get a flash chip for your board, make sure you know whether you need a parallel flash chips, an LPC flash chip that responds to firmware access commands or an LPC flash chip that responds to memory access comands. If you happen to have a working flash update utility for your computer, that utility most likely shows the detected flash chip type. You can use the type number to search for compatible chips. If you don't have a vendor flash program, you can give the open-source linux tool "flashrom" a try, it supports a probe operation that tries to detect your flash chip and prints the model number, too. IIRC it also prints the type (parallel/LPC/FWH; LPC means LPC protocol with memory cycles and FWH (firmware hub) means LPC protocol with firmware cycles).

Thanks. Can I run that linux program ona chip in a usb programmer or does it need to be stuck into the motherboard?

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 20:44:

[...]

Thanks. Can I run that linux program ona chip in a usb programmer or does it need to be stuck into the motherboard?

If you have a programmer, you don't need the software (which works with EEPROM connected to the system, so yes, stuck in the motherboard). Use whatever software comes with the programmer.

dionb wrote on 2020-07-20, 21:28:

kolderman wrote on 2020-07-20, 20:44:

[...]

Thanks. Can I run that linux program ona chip in a usb programmer or does it need to be stuck into the motherboard?

If you have a programmer, you don't need the software (which works with EEPROM connected to the system, so yes, stuck in the motherboard). Use whatever software comes with the programmer.

Kind of correct. The software that comes with the programmer likely wants you to select the correct chip type, so it misses the point of running a tool to detect the chip type. If the type is known already (e.g. by peeling off the label), you can just skip the step.

Running a flash update utility (vendor tool or uniflash (DOS) or flashrom (linux)) on the machine with the BIOS chip installed will tell you the chip type without needing to peel off the label, because the mainboard is already configured for the correct communiation protocol. Knowing the protocol gets easy if the mainboard is equipped with a pre-LPC chipset (like the Intel 440BX or earlier) - in that case, the mainboard only supports parallel flash chips. On the other hand, LPC/FWH chipsets can work with parallel flash chips if the mainboard is equipped with a super I/O chip that does translation from LPC to parallel flash (those chips were common for some time).