ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-11-11, 22:04:

Yeah I could understand Horun being sour about it if it wasnt that the monitors like this and the Radiforce series actually cater to a completely different market entirely, there is no thought towards the retro market we are in at all, and we retro enthusiasts are just catching a free ride on the wake of a wave.

The price is what it is. The companies who buy them need them.
The one single monitor sale that Horun would have bought if it had supported the two resolutions he wants it to and if it had been much cheaper than it is isnt going to be missed by Eizo.

About missing resolutions, I can say that at least in the digital domain (DVI, HDMI, DP), monitors can much more flexible as to what the accept as resolutions/refresh than what docs say.

My Philips 252B9 is quite agile at handling what my OSSC outputs. For example, while it would not sync to the 512x384 at I forget what refresh rate that my Mac IIvx defaults to over either direct VGA or digitized HDMI (via OSSC), it was happy to handle the same feed once line2x was enabled in the OSSC.

I must say my first thought was that those are the resolutions they have tried and tested and they are willing to say it supports.

I am not sour, just shocked that 2" more screen cost over 2.5X the price.... the little sister s1934 is $350 the s2134 is near $900. I figured there must be something to make it so much more but there really isn't..

Other than production costs to retool you mean?

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-11-12, 05:07:

Other than production costs to retool you mean?

I would hazard to guess that they probably have a separate line for the 21 vs the 19 inch model (and that they do not retool one line to switch to another), but even if not, I suspect that the cost difference might be due at least in part to one model being lower volume than the other and needing to be sold at a higher price to ammortize the higher per unit cost of the tooling while also maintaining a decent profit margin .

Horun wrote on 2023-11-12, 02:02:

I am not sour, just shocked that 2" more screen cost over 2.5X the price.... the little sister s1934 is $350 the s2134 is near $900. I figured there must be something to make it so much more but there really isn't..

It’s because they can, 100% guaranteed they are using old tooling. If they weren’t the screen could be literally any size, technology and resolution.

And a low res 26” 4:3 LCD is $299.99

https://www.unico-usa.com/products/ulm26-unic … nt-lcd-monitors

Yes a lower volume of unit production would increase the cost of those units.
The wages they pay for their workers making them also the additional cost of that same worker not making another unit also increases the cost.

Most people have zero idea about production costs.
They just see a monitor that is slightly larger so think the price should reflect that, where as in reality there are many other factors that need to be considered.

Value chain economics isnt usually thought about when considering what monitor to buy though so its understandable... When the conversation strays to cost of x over y then its only then that its worth considering.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-11-12, 05:48:

Yes a lower volume of unit production would increase the cost of those units. The wages they pay for their workers making them a […]
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Yes a lower volume of unit production would increase the cost of those units.
The wages they pay for their workers making them also the additional cost of that same worker not making another unit also increases the cost.

Most people have zero idea about production costs.
They just see a monitor that is slightly larger so think the price should reflect that, where as in reality there are many other factors that need to be considered.

Value chain economics isnt usually thought about when considering what monitor to buy though so its understandable... When the conversation strays to cost of x over y then its only then that its worth considering.

There is also the factor that equipment pricing have very different standards if it is aimed for certain professional use case or whether it is for consumers. If certain equipment is designed for some business or production application where it is essential for a business process possibly worth of millions or more, it doesn't matter if it relatively costly if it gets the job done. B-to-B market is very different from consumers.

Another thing that affects the prices of many electronics for professional use are possible certifications, calibration requirements and after-sales support that many customers in professional market expect and those cost money. For example, you can get completely fine mutimeters for a fraction of the price of Fluke, but those brands can't offer the same certification, calibration tools and physically same multimeters for decades (so customers don't need to go through a new certification process when they buy new multimeters). Fluke can provide all that, it costs money but in the long term it saves the most demanding customers a lot of money and trouble.

Exactly. Although there is a market for refitting old 4:3 professional LCD monitors with LED lamps, which is targeted for small business. One more reason to pick specific model which already has a conversion kit.

https://www.global.toshiba/ww/news/corporate/ … /03/pr1502.html

I vaguely remember the above and a similar IBM unit that required dual DVI connectors

Anyone remember the above? Seems like it only had a 30hz refresh rate.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-11-12, 11:52:

Exactly. Although there is a market for refitting old 4:3 professional LCD monitors with LED lamps, which is targeted for small business. One more reason to pick specific model which already has a conversion kit.

I heard that this was less than fun to do.

Somebody knows these?
http://www.widecorp.com/?act=shop.goods_view&GS=77&GC=GD0800

They use panasonic pro panels, very expensive, but sometimes they are available on the ebay cheaper. Eg do they have analogue input (via dvi)? The panel looks impressive…

If you want a semi portable screen that should work well with antique games, here you go 9.7” 4:3 FHD+ 🤣

https://www.amazon.com/VSDISPLAY-Portable-VS0 … 9921129&sr=8-17

Might work well for a damaged Mac Plus sleeper system.

That’s an ipad retina screen with a driver board and a case. Better to get the original design from laser bear, it has better firmware support, ie freesync (40 to 60 Hz only)

I can recommend a Dell 2007fpb.
It's 4:3 aspect, decent quality for the money, plenty of cheap ones about and has composite, s video inputs to go with dsub and dvi.

I just got one and it's nice.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-11-15, 10:18:

I can recommend a Dell 2007fpb.
It's 4:3 aspect, decent quality for the money, plenty of cheap ones about and has composite, s video inputs to go with dsub and dvi.

I just got one and it's nice.

I agree, with these potential caveats ( please correct me as needed):

a) it frameskips 70Hz into 60Hz
b) Given it's age and likelihood of heavy use, the fluorescent backlight one of these might be quite worn and dim (are there replacement kits and are they easy to install?)
c) at least some units are prone to capacitar plague era issues and I heard recapping is quite a job on these.
d) there are IPS and MVA variants, AFAICR the IPS ones were generally preferred.

(are there replacement kits and are they easy to install?)

Depends on popularity.

darry wrote on 2023-11-15, 14:07:

I agree, with these potential caveats ( please correct me as needed): […]
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ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-11-15, 10:18:

I can recommend a Dell 2007fpb.
It's 4:3 aspect, decent quality for the money, plenty of cheap ones about and has composite, s video inputs to go with dsub and dvi.

I just got one and it's nice.

I agree, with these potential caveats ( please correct me as needed):

a) it frameskips 70Hz into 60Hz
b) Given it's age and likelihood of heavy use, the fluorescent backlight one of these might be quite worn and dim (are there replacement kits and are they easy to install?)
c) at least some units are prone to capacitar plague era issues and I heard recapping is quite a job on these.
d) there are IPS and MVA variants, AFAICR the IPS ones were generally preferred.

Always buy from a seller with a returns policy and none of that will matter 😉

darry wrote on 2023-11-15, 14:07:

I agree, with these potential caveats ( please correct me as needed): […]
Show full quote

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-11-15, 10:18:

I can recommend a Dell 2007fpb.
It's 4:3 aspect, decent quality for the money, plenty of cheap ones about and has composite, s video inputs to go with dsub and dvi.

I just got one and it's nice.

I agree, with these potential caveats ( please correct me as needed):

a) it frameskips 70Hz into 60Hz
b) Given it's age and likelihood of heavy use, the fluorescent backlight one of these might be quite worn and dim (are there replacement kits and are they easy to install?)
c) at least some units are prone to capacitar plague era issues and I heard recapping is quite a job on these.
d) there are IPS and MVA variants, AFAICR the IPS ones were generally preferred.

Yes I do believe it frame skips at 70Hz even though it supports 75Hz, like other newer ones it has only 60Hz and 75Hz as the verticals iirc.
The Dell 1908FP also skips at 70Hz but not 60 or 75 🙁 just my observations. For some reason the true variable verticals disappeared back a decade ago or more.
Something like the older Samsung Syncmaster 930B which is fully variable from 60Hz thru 75Hz are no longer made or maybe were rare even back then...

added: which brings back that very expensive Eizo, it does not list MAC 640 x 480 @ 66.67 or MAC 832 x 624 @ 74.55 which are needed for Mac's and are not frame skipped on those older ones that do support it..
Tells me it does not have a fully variable Horiz and Vert, which means it could also frame skip at 70Hz and at 72hz or could be wrong but think they would document something about that, at that price 😀

I cant say Ive noticed that particular problem as at the resolutions I prefer it runs at 75Hz not 70Hz.

I suppose technically it skips if you apply a certain set of criteria to it to make it happen, but actual real world experience of it throws up none of the problems youre talking about.

I suppose thats the difference between knowing the path and walking the path.