Jan3Sobieski wrote:

What's the fastest I could go with the BX6 rev2 with latest bios?

I'm 99% certain you won't have any trouble at all if you install a Powerleap adapter with an Intel Celeron 1.4Ghz CPU on your mobo. I'm rattling my brain to jog its memory, and I think I installed one without any problems on a Rev 1 board. The BX chipset can be cautiously overclocked to around 112FSB, meaning you'll get a CPU clock speed of approx 1.5Ghz. An AGP V5 should be OK with that.

From @swaaye's posts above, it looks like the V5 is definitely the DirectX 3-6 #1 champ! 😀 And of course, there's Glide too!

@Jan3Sobieski

Looks like the cable for my CMS card but mune had black and white wires 😀

The BX chipset can be cautiously overclocked to around 112FSB, meaning you'll get a CPU clock speed of approx 1.5Ghz. An AGP V5 should be OK with that.

Actually, the Rev2 BX6 should be able to do 133FSB... that'd give you an 89mhz AGP speed, so you'd have to choose your graphics card carefully based on that (the V5 probably won't work, Geforces often get along fine), but you'd at least have the PCI bus running at 33mhz that way.

Old Thrashbarg wrote:

The BX chipset can be cautiously overclocked to around 112FSB, meaning you'll get a CPU clock speed of approx 1.5Ghz. An AGP V5 should be OK with that.

Actually, the Rev2 BX6 should be able to do 133FSB... that'd give you an 89mhz AGP speed, so you'd have to choose your graphics card carefully based on that (the V5 probably won't work, Geforces often get along fine), but you'd at least have the PCI bus running at 33mhz that way.

Several months ago, I OC'd an Epox mobo, setting its FSB from 133 to 169. The AGP Voodoo3 card performed flawlessly. However, I don't know what a V5 would do in this situation.

Jan3Sobieski wrote:

Malik wrote:

@Jan3Sobieski : Well,...uh...if you DO want to throw it away, throw it to me! I'll catch it! Very Happy

Since it didn't get any votes here, sure, I can send it your way. There's one little problem though. I bought it about 6 years ago at a thrift store and never tested it. Looking at the solder spots on the back, it seems like some caps/resistors have been replaced so I honestly don't even know if it works. If I had the drivers/settings to test it out and it worked, I'd be more than happy to send it to you. It's not going to do me any good here. If you can do anything with it, I'll even cover the shipping (if you're in the USA, if not, maybe we can split it? EDIT: I just checked. If you're really located in Malaysia, cheapest shipping would be $12.78 so that's not too bad, I can cover that, find me drivers so I can test it first!).

Thanks a lot, Sobieski!!!! Please PM me with your paypal address for me to send the money. It's very kind of you to offer free shipping (not to mention that you're ready to send me the whole card for free), but I just can't take it from you just like that. I'll pay for the shipping. It's the least I can do! (It's alright if it's not working or unable to confirm that.)

Jan3Sobieski wrote:

Malik wrote:

If you indeed want to select an AWE card, or any other pre-AWE64 Gold card for that matter, do buy a good audio cable for it.

I'm actually a little bit into car audio and have acquired many cables over the years, so I do have some higher quality ones I can use. However, I'm not biased towards any sound card. That's why I'm here asking questions 😉

Great! I can confirm again that the cable makes a difference. I've tried many times with different cables with different setups. This is in addition to the 20-speaker setup which is connected to my Marantz SR5002 AV reciever to which, my main system, one of my classic machines, the satellite tv and all my consoles are connected. (Yeah - 20 [of 10 assorted pairs of] speakers, including the 4 tweeters, not including my Sony sub-woofer, arranged in groups, in 7.1 Channel configuration around my room. I'll post the full "surround" speakers' pictures when I have the time.)

Another method to eliminate almost completely the hiss or electrical interference noises from a sound card, even the oldest SB card, is to pass the audio cable to a good reciever. By passing through this, I've noticed that any ordinary cable will do.

Another point is that, so far, I have never faced any problems with an AWE card, other than one incident where my CT3980 - AWE32 PnP has a defective FM synthesis - no FM sounds but the wavetable and voice counterparts work. But then again, my experience with the awe cards have been limited to 3 SB32PnPs (CT360*), 3 non PnP AWE32s, 2 PnP AWE32s (CT3980,CT3990), AWE64 Gold and AWE64 Value cards.

All about VGA Mode X.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_X

Re: AWE cards.
1) They can't emulate MPU-401 for protected mode games (no GMIDI). If you want wavetable, the game must directly support AWE. If not, you have a giant SB16.
2) AWEUTIL, the TSR that emulates MIDI for real-mode games, uses a lot of memory.
3) The onboard wavetable ROM is not that great.
4) They often don't have very good signal quality and can even have problems with pops and clicks (static maybe).
5) The MPU-401 DB header is usually buggy for DBs. See stuck / wrong notes issue.
6) Soundfont RAM is not usable for DOS games.
7) Some of them are PnP and that's a headache.
😁

Of course, most DOS sound cards are problematic. If you don't want to run into the inevitable throw-hours-away-but-get-nowhere situation, just get a Sound Blaster Pro.

Great info guys!

Since I am an impulse buyer (to my wife's regret) I purchased an SC-55 on ebay today for $65 + shipping as I've read many opinions that it's the best (maybe not "best" but excellent) at general midi. I will also be purchasing an MT-32 in the near future.

How does that change my options?

I guess I'm still confused about the CMS-401 card and the nec daughterboard. Do I hookup the midi from the CMS to the SC-55? What's the difference between that and just hooking it up through a joystick/midi port on a regular sound card?
Doesn't the daughterboard add good midi support to a regular card? how does it compare to the SC-55?

Would the SC-55 be better used in the pentium system or should i keep it and the MT-32 both in the 486?
There's so many questions my head is spinning.

SC-55 or the SC-55 MKII is a GREAT addition to classic systems.

Since games using the GM and GS standards do not require Intelligent MIDI mode, these games can have excellent midi music either with a classic ISA system or any latest PC with a good USB-MIDI cable.

By using a SC-55, you can eliminate one of your dilemmas - no need to worry about wavetables/daughterboards/etc.

All you need now is to use any sound blaster pro or above card for digital and fm music and transmit the midi message via the sound blaster's midi port, to the sc-55. Just like my setup using my AWE32 and SC-55 MKII. Just change the midi port to 300 if you're intending to use the 330 port for the MT-32 in your classic system.

Games like DOOM, HERETIC etc., will sound AWESOME with the SC-55! The cymbals in HERETIC sound too real; feel just like being in a studio! 😁

So after much deliberation here is what the plan is:

The 486:
-S3 VLB
-Sound Blaster PRO
-Gravis Ultrasound
-CMS-401 + SC-55
-future MT-32 (see below)

The P1-233:
-S3 PCI (Alternatively Rendition if I wanna check out some RRedline supported games)
-Voodoo 1
-Nec PowerVR
-Sound Blaster 16 + NEC db (I'll check my DSP, if it's the bugged one then the Reveal card + NEC db)
-GUS

The P3-600:
-Voodoo 5 AGP
(alternatively, GF2 + Voodoo2 SLI)
-Monster Sound MX300
-Yamaha YMF-724

the BX board I have has a max multiplier of 8.5. Since I don't want to use 133FSB for system stability reasons, the highest I will take this is to a p3 850 with a 100FSB. Unless there are other ways of achieving higher speeds without overclocking or sacrificing stability.

Last couple of questions:
-I will end up buying an MT-32 (or the CM-32L) It's inevitable. If only for the games that support the Sysex commands. I thought I read somewhere that it's possible to have both the SC-55 and MT-32 on one machine. I'd hook up the MT-32 to the CMS-401 and the SC-55 to the SB PRO. Can I do that? That way I can play games that support the MT-32 and General Midi on the SC-55. Do I actually even need the MT-32? Doesn't the SC-55 have a "switch" thing that "changes" it into an MT-32?
-If I play games that support General MIDI on the P1-233 machine, is there anything that the SC-55 does better when compared to the NEC db when it comes to General MIDI?
-confused about GS and XG, does the NEC db or SC-55 support either? Are there any games that support either?

Edit: just checked wikipedia 😉 GS is a better version of General MIDI from Roland, so the SC-55 does use that. the XG is from Yamaha, so the NEC uses that. Hmm. I guess the question that bothers me is that if i have the NEC in the p1-233 machine, would I ever need to hook it up to the SC-55?

The MT-32 won't work perfectly for every game that uses the old Roland music format. To ensure 100% compatibility, consider looking for the rarer CM-32L external synth box, or alternatively the even rarer CM-500. The internal 8-bit Roland LAPC-i music card (which is technically identical to the CM-32L box) is very rare and expensive.

Regarding using an MT-32 (or equivalent) and also an SC-55 on the same machine: with MIDI, it's possible to "daisy chain" devices together, so you can connect both synth boxes up together, and have just one of them connected to one sound card on your PC.

Darn it, I edit before I even let people respond 😉

retro games 100 wrote:

Regarding using an MT-32 (or equivalent) and also an SC-55 on the same machine: with MIDI, it's possible to "daisy chain" devices together, so you can connect both synth boxes up together, and have just one of them connected to one sound card on your PC.

So in my setup, I'd be able to connect the MT-32 to the CMS-401 and then from the MT-32 to the SC-55? Is that what you mean? Or am I thinking along the wrong lines?

Jan3Sobieski wrote:

So in my setup, I'd be able to connect the MT-32 to the CMS-401 and then from the MT-32 to the SC-55? Is that what you mean?

Yep. If you do an internet image search for both of these devices, and search for images showing the back/rear, then you'll see a MIDI socket labelled "Thru". That's where you can "daisy chain" the two devices together using a MIDI cable.

swaaye wrote:

All about VGA Mode X. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_X […]
Show full quote

All about VGA Mode X.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_X

Re: AWE cards.
1) They can't emulate MPU-401 for protected mode games (no GMIDI). If you want wavetable, the game must directly support AWE. If not, you have a giant SB16.
2) AWEUTIL, the TSR that emulates MIDI for real-mode games, uses a lot of memory.
3) The onboard wavetable ROM is not that great.
4) They often don't have very good signal quality and can even have problems with pops and clicks (static maybe).
5) The MPU-401 DB header is usually buggy for DBs. See stuck / wrong notes issue.
6) Soundfont RAM is not usable for DOS games.
7) Some of them are PnP and that's a headache.
😁

Of course, most DOS sound cards are problematic. If you don't want to run into the inevitable throw-hours-away-but-get-nowhere situation, just get a Sound Blaster Pro.

I agree with this post, but one or two things I would point out:

1) This only applies to the EMU-8000/soundfont capabilities. Midi through the Waveblaster header or the Gameport works just like the SB16, no AWEUTIL needed for that.

4) The signal quality is sometimes better than the SB16, but some SB16s have a cleaner mixer. Pops and clicks with games intended for Sound Blaster/Pro games is a 16-AWE64 issue.

7) The great thing about the early 16s and earlier Sound Blasters is that they can be set up entirely through jumpers, no software at all to fiddle with. Jumperless ISA cards are not always bad, but ISA PnP is no fun to configure.

Jan3Sobieski wrote:

the BX board I have has a max multiplier of 8.5. Since I don't want to use 133FSB for system stability reasons, the highest I wi […]
Show full quote

the BX board I have has a max multiplier of 8.5. Since I don't want to use 133FSB for system stability reasons, the highest I will take this is to a p3 850 with a 100FSB. Unless there are other ways of achieving higher speeds without overclocking or sacrificing stability.

Last couple of questions:
-I will end up buying an MT-32 (or the CM-32L) It's inevitable. If only for the games that support the Sysex commands. I thought I read somewhere that it's possible to have both the SC-55 and MT-32 on one machine. I'd hook up the MT-32 to the CMS-401 and the SC-55 to the SB PRO. Can I do that? That way I can play games that support the MT-32 and General Midi on the SC-55. Do I actually even need the MT-32? Doesn't the SC-55 have a "switch" thing that "changes" it into an MT-32?
-If I play games that support General MIDI on the P1-233 machine, is there anything that the SC-55 does better when compared to the NEC db when it comes to General MIDI?
-confused about GS and XG, does the NEC db or SC-55 support either? Are there any games that support either?

Edit: just checked wikipedia GS is a better version of General MIDI from Roland, so the SC-55 does use that. the XG is from Yamaha, so the NEC uses that. Hmm. I guess the question that bothers me is that if i have the NEC in the p1-233 machine, would I ever need to hook it up to the SC-55?

A Coppermine Pentium III does not care what you set the multiplier settings on your motherboard, it will use whatever multiplier is it designed to use and no other. 10x multipliers (ex. PIII 1GHz/100Mhz FSB) should work just fine.

The SC-55 does have a switch that will let it simulate an MT-32, but only games that do not use MT-32 sysex to load custom instruments and sounds into the unit will sound correct. That leaves lots of games sounding very wrong. You should have a real MT-32 or CM-32L or both.

The NEC daughterboard you speak of, DB60XG, is best used in games that were composed on Yamaha XG modules. Most General Midi DOS games were composed on Roland GS modules, so they will probably sound better on those. Since you have an external SC-55, which has two Midi-Ins, you can share the module between computers and see what you prefer the most.

The NEC daughterboard should support GS through its TG300B mode, but it is no substitute for the sound of a true Roland GS device. Roland devices of the period do not to support XG.

The MT-32 won't work perfectly for every game that uses the old Roland music format. To ensure 100% compatibility, consider looking for the rarer CM-32L external synth box, or alternatively the even rarer CM-500. The internal 8-bit Roland LAPC-i music card (which is technically identical to the CM-32L box) is very rare and expensive.

No single device is 100% compatible or 100% ideal for all games with MT-32/CM-32L/LAPC-I support.

Great Hierophant wrote:

No single device is 100% compatible or 100% ideal for all games with MT-32/CM-32L/LAPC-I support.

I'm a bit surprised. Please can you provide a game title that specifies support for the old Roland music format that does not work perfectly using either a LAPC-i or a CM-32L?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-co … _computer_games
(3) Exploits software bugs of the first-generation modules' firmware; will on some occasions sound wrong on later-generation modules.

Interesting, thanks.