Could be a resource conflict. Have you checked if there are no conflicts? Maybe start by disabling all hardware that is not essential and see if the problem persists.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-27, 14:16:

Is Jazz Jackrabbit use the FM synth to play music ?

No, it uses sample-based music.

i know FM is midi

Not quite, although a lot of game setup screens incorrectly label it as such. FM synthesis is its own thing. MIDI is something different, and I think this article explains it nicely.

As for your CS4236B, I think it uses CrystalFM, which many people seem to like. It's another proprietary alternative to OPL3. Here's the datasheet if you want to read more about that chip.

devius wrote on 2020-08-27, 14:31:

Could be a resource conflict. Have you checked if there are no conflicts? Maybe start by disabling all hardware that is not essential and see if the problem persists.

yeah! i will try. But i have always this onboard Matrix Mystique with a big red cross on it in device manager. i disable it in profile. But no option exist to disable it in bios, thats so bad. i will check others hardware and disable them or remove them. thanks a lot!

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-08-27, 14:44:

No, it uses sample-based music. […]
Show full quote

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-27, 14:16:

Is Jazz Jackrabbit use the FM synth to play music ?

No, it uses sample-based music.

i know FM is midi

Not quite, although a lot of game setup screens incorrectly label it as such. FM synthesis is its own thing. MIDI is something different, and I think this article explains it nicely.

As for your CS4236B, I think it uses CrystalFM, which many people seem to like. It's another proprietary alternative to OPL3. Here's the datasheet if you want to read more about that chip.

Thanks a lot for answer, i really want to know. i understand it more now. i will read your link later after my voodoo 3 problem. So it should explain why the music in Jazz is exactly the same quality and sounds the exactly the same with cs4236b and es1969f. I suppose the sound and music quality difference with both cards is their different FM quality.

I removed the 2nd soundcard that i use only for gameport. and it changes nothing. i tried 1.07b driver, same problem. i will try 1.03 later.
I succeed to get windows 98 start in normal mode. But its in 640 480 16. In dxdiag D3D is disable. But in device manager the voodoo 3 no yellow exclamation, no red cross. and i clicked property and its tell me device working properly LoL! yeah! sure! Sometime when i reboot , windows start saying something like that: theres a problem with your display adapter or your hardware setting are not correct. and its ask me to change resolution and color depth bit. but if i choose 16bit, next reboot it froze at win98 splash screen. I dont want to reinstall win98 because i dont think the
voodoo 3 will stay in the p233mmx, but i want to do test with it in my p233mmx. i prefer to keep my voodoo3 in my p3 933mhz. but i will switch sometime the voodoo3 in differents pc. Thanks for help, if you have any others idea !! ( now i will try to disable others devices)

Edit: At startup of Win98 it show that message:

There is a problem with your display settings. The adapter type is incorrect, or the current settings do not work with your hardware.

And i have to click ok button

After that it shows display properties so i can change resolution and colors depth bits.

Any ideas ? thanks

Ok i got it working with 1.03 driver version. At least it works !! Im happy now ! But strange problem !

If you have any idea to get 1.07 version works let me know. Thanks a lot !

Now i will make some tests.

You were right Bloodem! and your youtube video was right too 😉

On my p233mmx with voodoo3
NFSIII at 1024x768 full graphics except medium view distance, in Glide Mode:

It runs very smooth. im surprised! smoother than i thought Fraps dont work.
But it looks like 30fps to 50fps
. no fps counter
but i think 30-35 fps a lot of cars
and 40-50 fps a few cars
no cars i would say 50-55fps
With low horizon and low special effect
game run near 60 pfs even with cars around.

It plays really smooth because no slowdown, hiccup, no fps spike , it runs really nice for a p233mmx. i would have been satisfied to play it often. But finally i think i prefer to keep my pci voodoo3 in my p3 933mhz with my agp geforce 3 ti200. i still hesitate a little. But seriously Commander Keen series in Red colors is a big problem for me because i play theses games very often. But the dos games compatibility list advice me for that, its my problem. i dont have a crt screen anymore because it says colors will be normal. maybe others lcd too, but i love this samsung for his great scaling option quality.

I will try NFS III in D3D with fraps later.

i will try Porsche Unleashed later too.

(Maybe Hot Pursuit 2 for fun with White Tires LoL!)

Edit1:

P233mmx, win98 , voodoo3 2000 pci
1024x768 full graphics except medium view distance in D3D:

Much slower than Glide mode. A lot of cars 18 to 20fps. A few cars 18 to 24fps. No cars around: 25 to 28. Its not playable, not for me. You have to play this game in Glide mode with a p233mmx.

Even if in Glide mode i got good enough results, its sure i could get more fps with High-medium graphics instead of highest and with 800x600. This game is 100% playable with a voodoo3 with a P233mmx. i have 128mb.

Now Porsche unleashed result. Yes NFS III was very playable in Glide, but Porsche unleashed hmmm.. not much. only at lowest graphics setting:

P233mmx, win98 , voodoo3 2000 pci
(no fps counter, results are my feeling)

Porsche Unleashed:

640x480 , all settings at Low: No cars 25-30fps. A few cars 20-25fps. A lot of cars in forest , its worst in forest 15-20. Too me the game is playable, but barely playable. But hardly playable in years 2020 LoL! It runs smooth enough, no slowdown or fps spike, no hiccup... But not beautiful at all. barely playable, but seriously you should buy a new pc for play that game LoL!

800x 600 medium graphics. No cars, 25. A few cars 15-20 . A lot of cars 10-15. the game is not playable. but not too far. But it still not playable.

1o24x768 High settings LoL!: A lot of cars 5 to 10fps. A few 10 to 15. No cars 15 to 20fps. Not playable at all, even keyboard control has a lot of input lag.

I just got on ebay with shipping included for 40$Ca a geforce 4 Ti 4200 128mb. Its a great deal. The seller just put the auction 30 minutes ago, but its from Russia, maybe it will take 2 months. I will have to be very patient 😀 But l'm happy.
( Except Russia the best ebay deal was from Spain at 87$Ca and from USA 165$Ca. It was a great deal. )

I could not resist for 40$CA in total. 😀

The video card was tested and work perfect in 3d mark 99 with more than 5500 pts and 5000 for 3d mark 2000 and 4884 for 3d mark 2001.. i suppose its a normal score. The seller has 100% feedback and sold a lot of differents video cards in the last year. I uploaded the picture below. If something wrong just tell me guys , thanks. I know some chinese junk was created, so im always a little in doubt. Thanks. I'm really happy for it 😀
If the Geforce 4 ti 4200 seems to be a lot bottleneck by the cpu, i will upgrade to a better Pentium III cpu in some months 😀 and i have to buy a Sound Blaster 16 too in some months. But for now i will take a break of buying computer things for some months. At least a few months. 😀
For a great deal i can make a special exception 🤣! but honestly i'm not searching for anything anymore for a few months at least.

Note: I just want to let you know guys, I will probably be very busy for the next 7 days, so i will not post a lot in the next days. Dont worry i will do more benchmark and testing in 1 or 2 weeks. 😀
And i want to do more Pentium II 450 mhz benchmark with the voodoo 3 2000 pci and Geforce 3 Ti200. 😀

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-27, 20:02:

I just got on ebay with shipping included for 40$Ca a geforce 4 Ti 4200 128mb. Its a great deal. The seller just put the auction […]
Show full quote

I just got on ebay with shipping included for 40$Ca a geforce 4 Ti 4200 128mb. Its a great deal. The seller just put the auction 30 minutes ago, but its from Russia, maybe it will take 2 months. I will have to be very patient 😀 But l'm happy.
( Except Russia the best ebay deal was from Spain at 87$Ca and from USA 165$Ca. It was a great deal. )
I could not resist for 40$CA in total. 😀

The video card was tested and work perfect in 3d mark 99 with more than 5500 pts and 5000 for 3d mark 2000 and 4884 for 3d mark 2001.. i suppose its a normal score.

First of all, that's a GeForce 4 Ti 4200 AGP 8x version, so it will need even newer drivers (and you can't force it to work with older drivers). Works great with driver version 45.23, though (on fast CPUs). So, yes, I would say that it's a decent deal. 😀 On a side note, I would recommend that you replace that flimsy cooler... it doesn't look too good.

5000 points in 3DMark for a GeForce 4 Ti 4200 would only be normal for a very slow CPU (even slower than your Pentium 3 933MHz).
From memory, the GeForce 4 Ti 4200 should have the following scores in 3DMark 2000:
- On a Core 2 Duo CPU: ~17 000 points
- On an AMD Athlon 64: ~14 500 points
- On an AMD Athlon XP: ~13 000 points
- On an AMD Thunderbird ~11 000 points
- On a Pentium 3 Tualatin 1.4 GHz: ~ 10 000 points
- On a Pentium 3 Copp. 933 MHz: ~ 8 000 points

Even an AMD K6-2+ with a GeForce 2 GTS (and a slightly overclocked FSB) can get pretty close to 5000 points in 3DMark 2000 😀

So, not sure on which system that GeForce 4 Ti 4200 was tested, but I'm guessing it's probably a Pentium 2 / Pentium 3 Katmai or something similar. 😀

Hi Bloodem! It was on a Pentium III, but i dont know the speed. I will change the fan. Even the seller advice me to do so.

I want to use 45.23 too. With 45.23 My geforce 4 mx400SE sdr and 64bit was able to run NFS III full stable at 60 fps in 1024x768 near full graphics and run Porsche unleashed very good. (Its my best videocard after the Geforce 3 ti200) So it can't be worse with the Ti4200.

Man! I already broke my promise 2 times today that i made to myself LoL! I got a ebay seller deal for a Isa Sound Blaster 16 CT2770 (Value) for 35$CA shipped. I didnt want to pay 100$+ for the higher models. At least this one has a real Yamaha OPL3 integrated in the CT1747 chip. On the chip i can see the word OPL, so it has to be a genuine Yamaha OPL3. And i didnt want a Vibra card, i prefer a SB16 even if its Value. Anyway, i just read a lot about it, i dont find much difference between the SB16 Value and a normal SB16.. Do you know any important difference ? Anyway, Im not interested to use a wavetable to add a midi card, the Opl3 will be enough. And i dont care much about the noise, i know ct2770 can have a little more noise. ( noise from cd-rom, hard disk..) I read the whole Legendary Sound Blaster web site and i learned a lot of things about the Sound Blaster and the good models. I know its not Sound Blaster Pro compatible in stereo. But i could use the Crystal cs4236b for these games if really needed.
A Sound Blaster pro 2.0 cost at least 200$, so its too much expensive for me.

Note: Finally today, in the morning, my friend, gave to me for free the Sound Blaster Vibra 16c ct2970. I tested it and i was very disappointed by the CQM FM. To me it sounds a lot worse than FM Crystal (cs4236b) and ESFM (ESS1869f). The difference was big in Keen4. In this game the CQM sounds low in quality and effect, worse than i imagined, its not terrible, its still correct for most people i guess, but i really prefer the crystal fm and esfm higher quality. In Jazz Jackrabbit the music ( not FM) was not very high quality, just correct, but it was worse than cs4236b and es1869f. So for that reason too i choose to bought a real Sound Blaster 16 card instead of a Sound Blaster Vibra card. So i feared that Vibra normal ( non fm ) sound and music was worse quality than on a original sound blaster 16. Am i right ? Thanks!

Note2: I forgot to tell you this too LoL! Today i got 4 new pc for 40$. a warehouse deal. I got 2 Compaq Desktop. One Pentium 166mmx and a celeron 300A , a amd Athlon(not 64, not XP) and a Pentium Pro 200 ( unfortunately i cant get the pentium pro computer to work, my father and me tried to repair it for 4 hours, we tried everything.. Only a black screen no beep, nothing was connected, except screen and keyboard. we even change the ram dimm. My father even check all the caps and verified the psu too. Anyway, at least, i got 3 working computers. and i found a Sound Blaster ct4180, but it seems to be a pretty bad sound blaster 16 model with CQM and i found a radeon 9250.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-30, 02:47:

So i feared that Vibra normal ( non fm ) sound and music was worse quality than on a original sound blaster 16. Am i right ? Thanks!

Vibra cards often have the sound distortion bug. This is particularly bad IMO, since you can't do anything about it in older titles which don't allow you to manually adjust the volume in-game. Other than that, they tend to have ringing/hissing instead of DMA clicking that regular SB16 cards have, neither of which is good.

As for the self-noise, you can lower that by using Line Out (if available) and muting all the unused inputs in the mixer settings. Phil has a video where he shows how to install the drivers on a system running Win9x. He also explains how to optimize the mixer settings in order to minimize noise. Note that this applies to PnP cards, and if your card is non-PnP and uses jumpers for configuration instead, the process may be slightly different.

Depending on the DAC chip revision, the CT2770 might actually be quite OK in terms of noise. You can verify the CT1703 chip. If it's CT1703-T it will be quite noisy, while CT1703-TBS / CT1703-A are much better (almost noise free).

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-08-30, 07:24:

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-30, 02:47:

So i feared that Vibra normal ( non fm ) sound and music was worse quality than on a original sound blaster 16. Am i right ? Thanks!

Vibra cards often have the sound distortion bug. This is particularly bad IMO, since you can't do anything about it in older titles which don't allow you to manually adjust the volume in-game. Other than that, they tend to have ringing/hissing instead of DMA clicking that regular SB16 cards have, neither of which is good.

As for the self-noise, you can lower that by using Line Out (if available) and muting all the unused inputs in the mixer settings. Phil has a video where he shows how to install the drivers on a system running Win9x. He also explains how to optimize the mixer settings in order to minimize noise. Note that this applies to PnP cards, and if your card is non-PnP and uses jumpers for configuration instead, the process may be slightly different.

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-30, 08:12:

Depending on the DAC chip revision, the CT2770 might actually be quite OK in terms of noise. You can verify the CT1703 chip. If it's CT1703-T it will be quite noisy, while CT1703-TBS / CT1703-A are much better (almost noise free).

Hi guys !
it's CT1703-T
i just uploaded a picture.
So even if its quite noisy, i can use Phil advices in the Joseph_Joestar link to got it much better ? Right ? ( I think its a PnP card, just look at my picture thanks )

I can't see any picture.

Hi! oops i'm sorry ! i forgot to uploaded it. There you go!

It's CT1703-T
i just uploaded a picture.

I have 3 questions thanks!
( EDIT: i made 3 long questions instead of 4 questions LoL! )

1. So even if its quite noisy, i can use Phil advices in the Joseph_Joestar link to got it much better ? Right ? ( or maybe a hardware mod with my father help)

2. I think its a PnP card, just look at my picture. I dont see any irq dma jumper settings. is it really important? Im a newbie at Soundcard and Sound Blaster stuff, im not too sure about the difference between a pnp card vs non-pnp card, im not even sure to understand the difference at all. What are the positives for each kind? Thanks. ( i know some sound blaster card work as soon as they are installed in a computer, but others need software utilities and drivers in dos to get them working in games.)

3. About my Sound Blaster 16 Value ct2770, except the fact that it can be a little noisy, is it at least a good Sound Blaster 16 sound card ? So except for noise, does the sound and music quality ( digital music , normal game music , pcm, FM synth game music..) as good as these recommended Sound Blaster 16 sound card ct2230, ct2290, ct1740,ct1750,ct 1770.. ? Do you think i would be satisfied ? I'm not too difficult in general. I just want a real Sound Blaster 16 (no vibra ) with a real opl3 because i could not have one when i was young. ( i read everything on Legendary Sound Blaster web site) ( i know the ct2770 miss some cdrom ports but i dont think its important, im not sure about what missing features are not present with the SB16 vue ct2770 ? I know its miss jumpers too but i think its not that important. Right?)

(Edit: I just edited question 2)
(Edit: I just edit question 3 )

Thanks so much for answers guys ! I'm a little confuse. I want to understand more the world of isa Sound Blaster 16 card and sound card in general.

Edit: for your curiosity , i know eveyone said its not a opl3 but my ct4180 FM sounds MUCH better than FM CQM one from my ct2970. I read older topics and nobody seems sure about the FM of the ct4180. But its seem its not opl3. But to me it doesnt sound at all like CQM of my ct2970. its strange. Maybe its a different FM, not CQM, not Opl3.

Man! I have to make some others tests. This ct4180 sounds so good, maybe it play better than cs4236b and es1869f. The ct4180 FM music is really great, i cant believe its CQM. My ct2970 has a CQM FM because its CT1978-Tap and its sound exactly the same and as bad as a CQM FM sound blaster card, like the CQM doom files i heard before that someone linked me. I just uploaded pictures. of my ct4180 and ct2970. By the way are they both original Sound Blaster 16 soundcard ?

In conclusion:

ct2970 FM sounds bad, low quality like the CQM doom files i heard on the link. Its not horrible, its just not very high quality and effect sounds wrong sometime. 😉

ct4180 FM sounds really good. Maybe as good as my cs4236b and ess1869f FM, BUT i have to verify that. You know i already found the cs4236b FM better than ess1869f ESFM . But maybe this ct4180 FM sounds better than cs4236b and ess1869f.

I have a hard time to believe that ct4180 has a CQM FM. By the way, ct4180 has NO noise at all vs a few others soundcards i have.

I will do more testing soon about ct4180 FM vs others soundcards.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-31, 16:47:

By the way are they both original Sound Blaster 16 soundcard ?

If by "original" you mean the "very first model of SB16", then no. If you mean "not counterfeit", then yes they look legit to me.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-31, 13:28:

So even if its quite noisy, i can use Phil advices in the Joseph_Joestar link to got it much better ? Right ? ( or maybe a hardware mod with my father help)

I have a noisy CT2230 and two "less noisy" CT2290 (CT1703-TBS DAC). I also have a Sound Blaster Pro 2. To tell you the truth, they mostly sit in antistatic bags 😁 Though the CT2290 has good sound quality - particularly for later DOS games, my favorite sound cards are still the PCI Yamaha YMF7x4 cards. They are just so good! It's hard to describe how FM from these cards sounds on my Edifier R1700BT speakers. Pure bliss! Also, when playing DOS games on Windows 98, you have excellent General MIDI sound. And as for ISA, I still prefer an ES1868 or a YMF718/719 card instead of the SB16.
I realize that this does not answer your question, but what I mean is that... I didn't bother trying to find a workaround to this problem on my CT2230, simply because I don't think it's worth my time. 😀 These are interesting cards in their own right, nice collectibles, but when it comes to actually enjoying a game, having crystal clear FM sound, 100% bug free wavetable support, good compatibility... I think there are other much better options.

Ok thanks a lot for answers guys. But i understand your reason Bloodem to prefer yamaha fm and ess1868. But my goal was to have a Sound Blaster 16 (not vibra) with a yamaha opl3. Maybe in future i will buy a Yamaha sound card, im curious.

But what i really want to know is IF ALL sound blaster 16 ( not vibra) sound card with a real Yamaha Opl3 play and sounds near the same quality ? ( not about the noise)

I'm very curious about that. Would i heard a sound and music quality difference between my Sound Blaster 16 Value ct2770 and for example a Sound Blaster 16 ct1740 or ct2290 or ct2230 ? Are they all sounds similar in sound and music quality ?

Thanks for answer guys. I know a lot of people cant answer that question. I suppose you need to have bought a lot of Sound Blaster 16 sound cards to be able to answer that one 😉

Note: I'm really curious about that ct4180. I will make some more tests soon. I cant say if it sounds like a real opl3, i didnt compare yet, but its FM sounds really great. Its not like that ct2970 that i found bad enough in FM. I dont think my ct4180 has a CQM FM, because i cant believe that, its sounds too good. Ok i give you news soon about that. 😀