imi wrote on 2021-04-02, 15:35:

nope nope nope nope. I definitely agree with jasa1063 on this one, todays computing platform take so much control away from you […]
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Almoststew1990 wrote on 2021-04-02, 15:28:

In some ways, it's now, for a typical user.

nope nope nope nope.
I definitely agree with jasa1063 on this one, todays computing platform take so much control away from you that there is really barely anything "personal" about it anymore, you are merely a number, an ID to be milked from ADs.
it might be ideal for people who really don't care about computing and just use it as a tool to hook up with the latest social media trends.

but for serious work it is often a headache, and from an enthusiasts standpoint it's at best annoying.

the golden age for me definitely the 90s because... well I wasn't alive for much before ^^
every new upgrade was exciting, every new game brought something new to the table, technological advances were groundbreaking... and most important of all, your computer would still do what you told it to.

I totally agree with you in every single word, even if I would date the beginning of the gold era with the advent of the Amiga, middle 80s. Nowadays for me computing as we have known it is totally dead, I use a MAC to work and for everyday work because it simply allows me to do everything you need (other platforms, from Android to win10 allow me to do it but I have to spend more time protecting myself from malicious people than using the computer) in a simple way without wasting time on unnecessarily boring things. In my free time, on the other hand, I enjoy real computer science with Amiga and PC around the Pentium1

For me the golden age was sometime from 1996 - ??? The PC got 3D acceleration, fun PC games like Duke3D and Quake got released, and hardware power grew rapidly every year. Wide adoption of home internet also gave new possibilities of what a PC could do.

The good times continued into the 2000's decade, with fun games, DIY gaming PC building, bigger monitors, faster GPU, multicore CPU, faster internet.

About 2008 - present is where thing begin to diverge in how people use computers, and what a computer can do for different people. On one hand you have the smartypants who thinks a laptop or an ipad will make desktop PC obsolete because their computer use revolves around social media. On the other hand you have gamers building tower gaming PC in a glass case full of blinky fans that is essentially a thicc client for whatever the latest auto-updating Steam re-re-remake of a game may be the current fad. You have companies looking to turn their ecosystem into a walled garden. You have advertisers looking to spy on your every move. But you also have topics like privacy and security becoming more mainstream. Games are getting dumbed down in some aspects. But from a different perspective, the games are becoming more accessible to someone that doesn't want to spend hours a day min-maxing every moment of one game.

Then you also have an increasing number of people getting interested in retro PC. Hobby computers like Raspberry Pi bring a new generation of people to tinkering with computers. And I can't ignore the fact that many people have a job thanks to a laptop and the internet. Even technology domains like programming and electronics are more accessible now to the average person, and not just the 'geeks.'

So while some old timers may bemoan the computing industry catering to clueless idiots, you're simply looking at a too short timeline. On the whole, the computer has opened many possibilities for people, and the trend will likely continue.

I do however despise that my choice of PC cases these days is between various flavors of 'glass box with zero expansion bays.' As someone who expect their current PC to maintain the abilities that my PC of 10 years ago could do, the glass box just doesn't cut it.

There is no golden age of computers. I love my 90's gaming gear and my 80's micros, but not because they are better or they represent a more ideal time. Old computers have limitations, and working around those limitations is fun. I like to explorer history and culture through old software. I also like to run modern software, I like emulation and FPGAs, I like maker boards and DIY projects like Arduinos and raspberry pi. At the end of the day they are fun gadgets and toys that I use to amuse myself. It doesn't have to be any deeper than that.

pixel_workbench wrote on 2021-04-05, 19:12:

But from a different perspective, the games are becoming more accessible to someone that doesn't want to spend hours a day min-maxing every moment of one game.

This is an interesting thing because for a while now I have the suspicion that a large number of player doesn't really care about games. They don't really want to get immersed, they don't really want to spend time with them, they just want to get done with them. They on their first (and often only) playthrough hit up a guide to build the "perfect" character and follow that guide to pick the options that ensures the desired outcome (or save scum), and games assisst. The player can experience all the content on one playthrough, everything is marked on minimaps and the only thing the player have to pay attention to is following the quest marker in a tube. Some games aren't even playable without minimap and quest markers because there are no other ways to find out where to go and what to do. There are no in-game clues or NPCs to tell things, they just "mark it on your map" or the player character just finds out based on next to no info where to go with pinpoint accuracy (a quest marker appears not just for the general area, but the specific thing the player has to interact with).

interesting thread, a golden age usually refers to a time of great strides forward, or huge accomplishments and I'd guess the first time great strides were taken not the subsequent great strides!

So with that in mind, and thinking of personal computers (specifically x86 ibm compatibles), I'd have to say the late 1980's through mid 90's- the decade that computers went from expensive and 'technical' to being very common, affordable and increasingly part of our day to day existence (spreadsheet at work, Doom at home!) and saw a 'home PC' go from expensive DOS based 386 or 486 to speedy early pentiums with windows 95

if we allow for non x86 personal computers to include 'home computers' as then were called then we can say the early 80's, the transition from kits and limited abilities to commodore 64's and more

pixel_workbench wrote on 2021-04-05, 19:12:

essentially a thicc client for whatever the latest auto-updating Steam re-re-remake of a game may be the current fad. You have companies looking to turn their ecosystem into a walled garden. You have advertisers looking to spy on your every move.

Except it's also easier than ever to merrily pirate almost anything you want, which is what people spent much of the 80's and 90's doing anyway – only back then you had to fumble around with big boxes of floppies in order to do it, or possibly a dial-up BBS of ill repute, or the old alt.binary newsgroups, and even then you might end up with a botched CD-rip packaged in some incomprehensible multi-part format.

Things are definitely better now in that it's easy to spend a couple of dollars that should go to someone who is supposed to have the legal rights to distribute old software, and who is supposed to support it on current systems.

I really never expected this much discussion on this topic. It is great to hear everyone's opinion. Retro computing has really taken off in the last few years. I remember being able to buy complete Tandy 1000 systems for less than the cost of shipping. I bought 3 in 1999 for $25 a piece on eBay. Oh my how times have changed! Maybe be there should be a Golden Age for buying retro computers as well:)

Things have just gotten borring and homogenous, since the demise of the big companies from the past. Yes, we still have many of the old players like Asus, Compaq and so on. However IBM do not make consumer electronics and companies like Atari, Commodore, Sinclair and Acorn are no more.

Everyone today, are practically making the exact same stuff as the others. Today the gold is in the software and not in hardware and software anymore.

In that light. Today is not the golden age anymore. Take away all kinds and types of software and network computing and what do we have that are special and not what everyone else does? Nothing I say. It is all the same stuff that everyone else does.

Warlord wrote on 2021-04-05, 07:24:

I deleted my Facebook account 5 years ago. Some corporations might be your friend depending on how woke you are.

I got rid of mine in 2014. The reason was simple. Everyone was too damn egocentric, no personal communication other than it was about people them self, posts were no more linear (facebook changed it to most liked that came first), too many people complaining and too many add's.

I just hated it. And boy did I piss people off, because all they wanted to do, was to snag in my personal life and not having any conversation and personal contact. I sure weeded out a lot of people who took my decition as a deep personal offence to them. Having the option to communicate with me on a phone, was to them not an option in life.

Well... Not my loss.

brostenen wrote on 2021-04-06, 10:06:

I got rid of mine in 2014. The reason was simple. Everyone was too damn egocentric, no personal communication other than it was […]
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Warlord wrote on 2021-04-05, 07:24:

I deleted my Facebook account 5 years ago. Some corporations might be your friend depending on how woke you are.

I got rid of mine in 2014. The reason was simple. Everyone was too damn egocentric, no personal communication other than it was about people them self, posts were no more linear (facebook changed it to most liked that came first), too many people complaining and too many add's.

I just hated it. And boy did I piss people off, because all they wanted to do, was to snag in my personal life and not having any conversation and personal contact. I sure weeded out a lot of people who took my decition as a deep personal offence to them. Having the option to communicate with me on a phone, was to them not an option in life.

Well... Not my loss.

Interesting and somehow similar to my experience. At first I liked the ancient original idea that system would have helped me to say hello to people of our past that otherway it'd have been impossible to contact like very old friends.
I never had any idea like many to use the personal profile page as a sort of selfish way to express opinions or to expect confirmation to our cooking abilities etc.. But soon I discovered that even great friends of our past simply just didn't care to even talk about old times when instead it'd have been nice to find time in our own work/time daily life to take a coffe and just talk about old times. Instead none cared, most so busy by their daily life and somehow already trashed all their past good memories like nowdays looking back might looks like a weakness that might stop their ipotethical life successes.

Regarding facebook I find it very useful as a personal search engine of my regularly forgotten life and projects. I'll often make not viewable posts about how to program an IC or something so I can find it again in future years.

I haven't read all the posts here but the few I saw I tend to agree: Late 90's

Things were pretty simple:
Choose Intel or AMD
Choose a mainboard
Everything else was well documented and easy to find as to what worked with what (which essentially was everything except CPU and mainboard)
You downloaded drivers (or *shock* the drivers came on a disc!), plugged in a piece of hardware, told windows where to find the drivers. Reboot. Repeat.

Each upgrade brought a marked improvement in speed and visuals.

The last PC I built must have been around 2003/2004. An Athlon I believe.

I bought a new PC, off the shelf around 2007 and I had it upgraded in 2010 as I simply couldn't figure out what would go into and what wouldn't.

After kids, a house and a dog I simply do not get what is what anymore.

My son wants a new PC I have spent a year off and on trying to put one together but simply being sure that whatever it is I buy will work together without issue.
I should add that I also am a bit of a miser and I do not want to spend more than necessary.

What put me off completely was when we got a wireless laser printer.
HP MD something...
I followed the instructions EXACTLY. Step by step.
I used to build netoworks and manage two dozen computers for IT training.
One the 3 computers, two which are HPs I can NOT get the thing to work in the same way twice.

First I tried to shove some app down my throat. I said, no thank you, give me the drivers, I will do it myself.
No joy. Nothing. Butkis...
So begrudgingly I installed the app... carefully deselecting the bloat, spy-ware/malware scheit that they throw in there.
After 3 hours I got it to print on my HP laptop top.
So on to my wife's surface. I followed the EXACT SAME INSTRUCTIONS...
Nothing. It wouldn't even install as a a USB printer.
Trying to delete it made the computer hang.
Then after a reboot... it was all there?!
Finally I tried my son's laptop. Another HP. Followed the same instructions.
Also the printer just won't print sometimes.
I discovered that if the print out is set to color it will refuse to print because it is a black (and white) printer only...
No error message. No semi intelligent "let's not offer the user and option their printer can't do"... nothing. It sits there, blocking the queue.
Once I twigged and deleted the job things worked...

HOW is this better?!

The golden age was mostly Mid 80’s through mid 90’s

In that period there were systems of all sorts of architectures floating around in their own universe and they were all valid.
You danced with who you came with.
Computers no matter how old or new had value and were valued by those who had them, people would continue to actively use extremely obsolete systems in this era without issue.
Many large strides in software occurred in this time and things were still fun to work with.

Before that period nobody had one after that we were gearing up for the malaise era by obsoleting everything every 6 months creating the environmental crisis of ewaste due to everything being disposable and hard to get support after a few years.

Carrera wrote on 2021-04-06, 14:54:

I haven't read all the posts here but the few I saw I tend to agree: Late 90's

......

HOW is this better?!

I almost could feel long time ago things were going into that direction. Similar things I can see for "modern" vga where the installation setup came with everything but a simple driver folder I might just use to install and stop and instead there're all type of apps none would ask for and even with the minimal installation you need to install more than an usual vga would need.
Lately I was installing a laser usb printer, the only one I got and using its own drivers if I want to use some ink saving features, it comes with the usual hundred megabytes installation, long contract and agreements, firewall bypass even data reporting, analysis..for a simple printer?
I don't care but I ask myself if buying the hardware isn't nowdays enough to survive for a company that makes hardware?
How is this better I'd agree. It's like when someone receive the electric or gas bill and there's a third of the costs for the real used electricity or gas and the rest of the bill is about services and whatever unrelated logics.

Carrera wrote on 2021-04-06, 14:54:

I bought a new PC, off the shelf around 2007 and I had it upgraded in 2010 as I simply couldn't figure out what would go into an […]
Show full quote

I bought a new PC, off the shelf around 2007 and I had it upgraded in 2010 as I simply couldn't figure out what would go into and what wouldn't.

After kids, a house and a dog I simply do not get what is what anymore.

My son wants a new PC I have spent a year off and on trying to put one together but simply being sure that whatever it is I buy will work together without issue.
I should add that I also am a bit of a miser and I do not want to spend more than necessary.

I think a lot of things weren't much less inscrutable ten or twenty years ago – but I suspect I probably don't have nearly the same level of patience that I used to.

I am due for a new PC and find myself hugely intimidated by the available options, knowing that whatever I purchase, I will probably end up with regrets and will almost certainly end up screaming bloody murder as things fail to work the way they're supposed to. And it's easy to keep putting it off considering my C2Q from ten years ago still does almost everything I need it to do – for now.

brostenen wrote on 2021-04-06, 10:06:

posts were no more linear (facebook changed it to most liked that came first), too many people complaining and too many add's.

I guess you never noticed the toggle to set the order to most recent posts..? I use an excellent extension called FB Purity that sets it automatically; it cleans out the ads as well. I don't know what I'd do without it.

Jorpho wrote on 2021-04-06, 15:51:

I guess you never noticed the toggle to set the order to most recent posts..? I use an excellent extension called FB Purity that sets it automatically; it cleans out the ads as well. I don't know what I'd do without it.

I have no idea if I noticed it. It was 7 years ago.
The user interface were shitty and extremely messy, as if a sadist have done the navigation design.

Jorpho wrote on 2021-04-06, 15:51:

I am due for a new PC and find myself hugely intimidated by the available options, knowing that whatever I purchase, I will probably end up with regrets and will almost certainly end up screaming bloody murder as things fail to work the way they're supposed to. And it's easy to keep putting it off considering my C2Q from ten years ago still does almost everything I need it to do – for now.

Bit Off topic but in 2018 decided to build a new computer and chose a Intel Z370 based board and I7-8700, could not be happier. Runs Win7 (yes there are full drivers out there for it, is the last chipset with true Intel/MS Win 7 support) and runs Win10 just fine also.
Not a DOS machine but have other old machines for that. Added: Know the feeling, my other daily use main box is a Q9650 on Asrock Nvidia based board over 10 years old and refuse to quit using it !

Windows 95 was the beginning of the end.

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2021-04-07, 02:38:

Windows 95 was the beginning of the end.

i tend to think it more the end of the beginning

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2021-04-07, 02:38:

Windows 95 was the beginning of the end.

That, and the internet going mainstream, and the birth of the cheaper VLSI desktop (LPX, ATX, mATX, etc), and the reduction in the price of laptops, and online gaming, the mainstreamization for the FPS, 3-D RPGs, and super-violent games with military-like tactics.

The mainstream perception was....

Before 1995 = Computer = expensive mysterious box used by nerds and businesspeople to do "boring things"

After 1995 = Computer = that cool new thing called the internet, online gaming, e-mail, a whole new world.

By 2007 = Computer = that outdated black box that I occasionally use when I need to say more than a few poorly crafted sentences online

I kind of feel the pre-95 "golden age" is exaggerated because that's when I Started. Few at my school knew what Monkey Island, Commander Keen, or Ultima was - they were at home playing Street Fighter, Sonic, and Super Mario Bros. Today it's made out like a lot of games and software of that time was some massive smash hit everyone had - heck, if you even had a computer it was a toss up between "whoah, cool, better graphics than PC Engine!" or "You nerd! Where's your pocket protector?".

When the internet came around most people did not even know what it was and it lead to a lot of lame jokes like Pen and Teller shilling Comedy Centrals website in 1996 "It's so funny You'll Download in your Pants!" or somesuch.....or a basketball player sketch "The key to good basketballl......Internet....as in, "Get yer ball in er net!"". The people who did have access - we had memes even then - from medical people making up funny lists of "Types of poop" to spreading the "Golden Age" poem (ah, the golden years have come at last - I cannot chew, I cannot screw, I cannot see, I cannot pee......").

And god I remember the race for ultra-violence in computer games - Mortal Kombat, Doom/Quake/Duke Nukem 3d/Wolfenstein (to a lesser extent) and school shootings being linked, I remember when Postal came out and it got banned in countries and a few states here in the US, and Lieberman must have done some big deal over it. The scrutiny over all the GTA releases and "Driver". Religious types hated Diablo. Ultima Online really set the stage for today's "pay for space on a server" and "DLC" tropes of modern games. Nowadays it seems you can't go too far over that line unless you make a game so bad socially that it's likely to be found only in the hands of the politically and socially nefarious.