VOGONS


First post, by butjer1010

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Hi, i recently acquired Diamond 3dfx Voodoo 2 PCI graphics card, and everything works ok, but when i execute mojo, there is 1MB of RAM dedicated on TMU 0, and 2MB on TMU 1. I was hoping the changing of this 4 chips of RAM connected to TMU 0 could solve the problem, but i cannot find the same chips to buy.
Now the question is : Can i exchange V53C16258HK27 (from Voodoo) with AS4C256K16E0-50JC (S3), or any else type of RAM i have on old S3 PCI graphics (Of course, same size - 512kB if i'm not mistaken) ?
Thanks

Reply 1 of 7, by dominusprog

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My suggestion is to remove all TMU-0 RAM chips and test them on a different card first.

Duke_2600.png
A-Trend ATC-1020 V1.1 ❇ Cyrix 6x86 150+ @ 120MHz ❇ 32MiB EDO RAM (8MiBx4) ❇ A-Trend S3 Trio64V2 2MiB
Aztech Pro16 II-3D PnP ❇ 8.4GiB Quantum Fireball ❇ Win95 OSR2 Plus!

Reply 2 of 7, by Thermalwrong

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The RAM clock is too high for 50ns chips, they've got to be 35ns or lower from what I recall.

The fault is less likely to be the RAM chips themselves but the QFP chips often have weakened solder and loose legs so some lines that would connect to the RAM are disconnected. I've now fixed 5+ Voodoo 1 & 2 cards and I've not yet seen a faulty EDO chip on one of these cards.

Have a look at vswitchzero's great video on fault finding with a Voodoo 2 card.
Troubleshooting and Repairing a 3Dfx Voodoo 2! - vswitchzero
Notably this part that clarifies which TMU is which: https://youtu.be/tRFucW4uB5k?t=586
The TMU on the right / furthest from the PCI bracket is TMU 0

Reply 3 of 7, by butjer1010

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dominusprog wrote on 2024-05-06, 15:55:

My suggestion is to remove all TMU-0 RAM chips and test them on a different card first.

I was hoping something with less soldering 😀
Thanks, i will do that i suppose....

Reply 4 of 7, by dominusprog

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butjer1010 wrote on 2024-05-07, 14:36:
dominusprog wrote on 2024-05-06, 15:55:

My suggestion is to remove all TMU-0 RAM chips and test them on a different card first.

I was hoping something with less soldering 😀
Thanks, i will do that i suppose....

But before that, check for broken solder joints.

Duke_2600.png
A-Trend ATC-1020 V1.1 ❇ Cyrix 6x86 150+ @ 120MHz ❇ 32MiB EDO RAM (8MiBx4) ❇ A-Trend S3 Trio64V2 2MiB
Aztech Pro16 II-3D PnP ❇ 8.4GiB Quantum Fireball ❇ Win95 OSR2 Plus!

Reply 5 of 7, by butjer1010

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Thermalwrong wrote on 2024-05-07, 03:56:
The RAM clock is too high for 50ns chips, they've got to be 35ns or lower from what I recall. […]
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The RAM clock is too high for 50ns chips, they've got to be 35ns or lower from what I recall.

The fault is less likely to be the RAM chips themselves but the QFP chips often have weakened solder and loose legs so some lines that would connect to the RAM are disconnected. I've now fixed 5+ Voodoo 1 & 2 cards and I've not yet seen a faulty EDO chip on one of these cards.

Have a look at vswitchzero's great video on fault finding with a Voodoo 2 card.
Troubleshooting and Repairing a 3Dfx Voodoo 2! - vswitchzero
Notably this part that clarifies which TMU is which: https://youtu.be/tRFucW4uB5k?t=586
The TMU on the right / furthest from the PCI bracket is TMU 0

I watched that video, and i tried all the resistors, but unfortunately, the problem isn't that easy 🙁 All the resistors are ok on my card. I "warmed up" a little bit the pins on TMU 0 and those 4 RAM chips with flux and heat gun, but nothing changed. Maybe the best thing is to exchange RAM chips from TMU 0 and 1 and see if the problem is in TMU 1 now? That would lead to bad RAM, and if the problem remain on TMU 0, then i wil had a major problem 🙁

Reply 6 of 7, by Thermalwrong

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Tronix made a memory test program, which I think can test both frame buffer and texture memory: https://www-phantom-sannata-org.translate.goo … =en&_x_tr_hl=en
See MTEST.rar on there, I think diagnosing the fault first is better than swapping out RAM chips. And I say this as someone that has done just that several times on an Orchid Righteous 3D voodoo 1 card that reports just 1MB on the TMU instead of 2 - all the RAM was swapped, pins have been reflowed but that's as far as I've got to this point.
The pinout of the TMU chip sdz confirmed matches for the Voodoo 2 card here - 3Dfx Voodoo 1 - Low level hardware information and diagnostics thread (aww it's the righteous 3d in the pictures)

Just heating the pins on the TMU / FBI chips isn't enough in my experience, better to prod each leg with a pin while looking through a microscope. I did that and marked loose pins with a pencil mark on the chip, then went round after resoldering those loose pins with fresh solder then cleaned up any bridges.

Reply 7 of 7, by butjer1010

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Thermalwrong wrote on 2024-05-07, 19:52:
Tronix made a memory test program, which I think can test both frame buffer and texture memory: https://www-phantom-sannata-org. […]
Show full quote

Tronix made a memory test program, which I think can test both frame buffer and texture memory: https://www-phantom-sannata-org.translate.goo … =en&_x_tr_hl=en
See MTEST.rar on there, I think diagnosing the fault first is better than swapping out RAM chips. And I say this as someone that has done just that several times on an Orchid Righteous 3D voodoo 1 card that reports just 1MB on the TMU instead of 2 - all the RAM was swapped, pins have been reflowed but that's as far as I've got to this point.
The pinout of the TMU chip sdz confirmed matches for the Voodoo 2 card here - 3Dfx Voodoo 1 - Low level hardware information and diagnostics thread (aww it's the righteous 3d in the pictures)

Just heating the pins on the TMU / FBI chips isn't enough in my experience, better to prod each leg with a pin while looking through a microscope. I did that and marked loose pins with a pencil mark on the chip, then went round after resoldering those loose pins with fresh solder then cleaned up any bridges.

I will do the microscope/pins checking first.
Thanks for the memory test program, will try that also....
Thanks a lot