Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-06, 14:29:

I just won a Terratec XLerate with the original beetle. For a single Øre, no one else wanted that thing. Am I missing something? It has a golden backplate, MIDI connector and bent pins, what's not to like there?

oh I was watching it, but I already have one ^^ and got the MX300 recently so might as well let someone else have the fun 😉

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-05-06, 15:31:

AU8820 is the Vortex 1. You want the chip labeled AU8830. This is very misleading.

Hence my words about "beginners level" involving the original chip. Which I wanted. 😉

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-05-06, 15:31:

It is a pretty looking card though.

O yes it is!

Also got another Athlon range crappy old power supply, for change money. Good stats on paper, clean, sealed, silent, with SATA plugs. Do I really need to care about the difference between active and passive PFC?!?
Just not sure whether a brand named "XILENCE" should inspire confidence or the opposite, being the freak phonetic accident it is... 😜

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-06, 17:39:

Also got another Athlon range crappy old power supply, for change money. Good stats on paper, clean, sealed, silent, with SATA plugs. Do I really need to care about the difference between active and passive PFC?!?
Just not sure whether a brand named "XILENCE" should inspire confidence or the opposite, being the freak phonetic accident it is... 😜

I wouldn't pay the shipping cost for this thing, even if I would get it for free.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-05-06, 17:52:

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-06, 17:39:

Also got another Athlon range crappy old power supply, for change money. Good stats on paper, clean, sealed, silent, with SATA plugs. Do I really need to care about the difference between active and passive PFC?!?
Just not sure whether a brand named "XILENCE" should inspire confidence or the opposite, being the freak phonetic accident it is... 😜

I wouldn't pay the shipping cost for this thing, even if I would get it for free.

Neither did I, got it local. But I know about your fetish for certain overpriced brands of trivial implements in obsolete computers. I just fail to share it! 😉

Don't have that many ATX units with -5 V. Might go into some trivial Athlon or P3 build. What's it gonna do? Bleed on me?

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-06, 17:39:

Also got another Athlon range crappy old power supply, for change money. Good stats on paper, clean, sealed, silent, with SATA plugs. Do I really need to care about the difference between active and passive PFC?!?
Just not sure whether a brand named "XILENCE" should inspire confidence or the opposite, being the freak phonetic accident it is... 😜

Active vs Passive PFC should be of no concern unless you really care about efficiency. In fact, for older power supplies I tend to prefer Passive PFC as it is a simpler design and you have one point of failure less to worry about (I've seen several failures in the Active PFC circuitry of some units by now).

The brand name suggests bottom of the barrel stuff, but you can open it and show us the insides, maybe there's a surprise or two in there!

For me, either no PFC for older units or APFC for newer C2D/Core i3/5/7 units. I don't want any brick blocking my airflow for almost no reason.

Hence why I removed the PPFC coil when I recapped my Spire Jewel 380W (alias RPC PWPS-55P00P - pretty much signals the quality of the previous unit that's been inside). Allows for more airflow and keeps the unit much cooler.

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-05-06, 18:18:

The brand name suggests bottom of the barrel stuff, but you can open it and show us the insides, maybe there's a surprise or two in there!

The brand name is actually not really a big mystery. It's German marketing trying in vain to sound pithy or cool in English.
"Bottom of the barrel" yes, for the tiny aloof minority retail PSU market of hardware enthusiasts, but not for hardware in general. It's not some no-name Ali Express garbage for cheap OEM machines.
One could call it "budget enthusiast" - an obvious "me too" product, cashing in on the huge difference between loose capital with PC building kids and labor cost in China. So, they bribed a subway driver in Bielefeld to confirm to be their "German engineer" if asked and got a deal with "Very respectable and major PSU factory" in Guangshou.
But it seems they've muddled through for ten years now, so they're probably not complete frauds:
https://www.xilence.net/en/aboutus
Try finding an ATX1.3 unit with -5V on purpose on ebay by searching for it, let alone without some inflated BS BIN price... this thing works and fell into my lap. I'm not in the habit of pushing those with OCing or silly SLI arrays.

I'm not to keen on opening a sealed PSU for no good reason if the values check out. I may one day pass that thing on in a system I sell and this place is really anal about qualification rules when it comes to mains power. So, never mind the value of the unit itself, but don't want to taint the whole systems as "been tempered with" to someone. May it set their house on fire as long as I can prove I did not try to prevent that without a license. 😉
What would you expect to find in a photo, anyway? Reviews clearly state that they lack some of the then latest protection gimmicks. (OCP, OTP). With what I could see through the fan: Fat caps look fine, some yellow road block next to the mains in, they made the effort to include some kind of division plastic layer in the rear third that forces all the air around the heatsinks.
The thing is pretty packed and for the real experts here: It weighs significantly more than a duck or ten European swallows.

cuttoon, funny though I found two ATX 350W units with -5v, new in box, together with two new in box AT psus, a few weeks ago in the dumpster 😁

weedeewee wrote on 2022-05-06, 19:19:

cuttoon, funny though I found two ATX 350W units with -5v, new in box, together with two new in box AT psus, a few weeks ago in the dumpster 😁

Well, you lucky bastard!
Think we've been through that in the corresponding thread: No dumpster diving in Germany. People get prosecuted for less...

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-06, 19:11:

I'm not to keen on opening a sealed PSU for no good reason if the values check out. I may one day pass that thing on in a system I sell and this place is really anal about qualification rules when it comes to mains power. So, never mind the value of the unit itself, but don't want to taint the whole systems as "been tempered with" to someone. May it set their house on fire as long as I can prove I did not try to prevent that without a license. 😉
What would you expect to find in a photo, anyway? Reviews clearly state that they lack some of the then latest protection gimmicks. (OCP, OTP). With what I could see through the fan: Fat caps look fine, some yellow road block next to the mains in, they made the effort to include some kind of division plastic layer in the rear third that forces all the air around the heatsinks.
The thing is pretty packed and for the real experts here: It weighs significantly more than a duck or ten European swallows.

A photo of the insides can tell you pretty much everything you need to know about a power supply: with the size of the transformer, and some details about the components (diodes, inductors and transistors) you can say with confidence whether the ratings on the label are pure bullshit, kind of accurate or conservative. And also whether it follows basic safety measures. Without seeing that it's just another generic metal box with wires coming out.

But hey, it's yours and you were the one asking about it, I was just offering advice and didn't think that opening a power supply was such an issue. Not sure what you want to use it for and I don't really care, I'm not one of those who accepts no less than an ultra-modern 1000W beast to power a 386, I'm totally fine with old stuff as long as it's decent.

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-05-06, 21:22:

A photo of the insides can tell you pretty much everything you need to know about a power supply: with the size of the transformer, and some details about the components (diodes, inductors and transistors) you can say with confidence whether the ratings on the label are pure bullshit, kind of accurate or conservative. And also whether it follows basic safety measures. Without seeing that it's just another generic metal box with wires coming out.

But hey, it's yours and you were the one asking about it, I was just offering advice and didn't think that opening a power supply was such an issue. Not sure what you want to use it for and I don't really care, I'm not one of those who accepts no less than an ultra-modern 1000W beast to power a 386, I'm totally fine with old stuff as long as it's decent.

Thank you, I aprreciate the advice. And believe me, I'd love to open that thing up and poke around, I replaced PSU fans as a teenager. But this really is a tight arse country. I risk legal trouble in my day job all the time and it sucks. I really don't need any grey areas with this hobby.
Though, with this thing, I think I know everything I need to: It's a power supply, it supplies power. And, it's a BS retail brand, with that name. Which also means it went through countless hardware-blog-magazine-reviews and if it were complete BS concerning the values, I'd have found something on line or the brand would probably be defunct by now. It's nothing fancy, but will do for some minor task. Not going to use it much beyond 50% face value, if at all.

Yep, 386 or later - IMHO, getting a new and modern PSU all the way from China, for a mass produced, obsolete system, while used ones lay around in heaps, is patently insane. The planet is going to shits as it is, we really don't need to rush it. Keep telling people the only PSU to ever crack on me was a high end brand piece, but somehow, many people today seem to have a certain need for control and security that in my experience, reality just can't provide. Let that SS7 go up in smoke, we should rather recycle all that stuff anyway, instead of mining new, so I'll let the gods decide that.
It could be worse. A woman could cut your penis off and throw it out the window of a moving car.

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-06, 21:56:

Thank you, I aprreciate the advice. And believe me, I'd love to open that thing up and poke around, I replaced PSU fans as a teenager. But this really is a tight arse country. I risk legal trouble in my day job all the time and it sucks. I really don't need any grey areas with this hobby.
Though, with this thing, I think I know everything I need to: It's a power supply, it supplies power. And, it's a BS retail brand, with that name. Which also means it went through countless hardware-blog-magazine-reviews and if it were complete BS concerning the values, I'd have found something on line or the brand would probably be defunct by now. It's nothing fancy, but will do for some minor task. Not going to use it much beyond 50% face value, if at all.

Understood, and I agree with your reasoning. Besides, a funny brand name does not necessarily mean bad quality, there's stuff like "Sparkle" (decent) or "Zippy" (very good) where dubious naming has no relation to build quality.

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-06, 21:56:

Yep, 386 or later - IMHO, getting a new and modern PSU all the way from China, for a mass produced, obsolete system, while used ones lay around in heaps, is patently insane. The planet is going to shits as it is, we really don't need to rush it. Keep telling people the only PSU to ever crack on me was a high end brand piece, but somehow, many people today seem to have a certain need for control and security that in my experience, reality just can't provide. Let that SS7 go up in smoke, we should rather recycle all that stuff anyway, instead of mining new, so I'll let the gods decide that.
It could be worse. A woman could cut your penis off and throw it out the window of a moving car.

Yes, also all those pre-2000 PC components seem to be very resilient, and they need what? 50W? 60W? Back then very few people spent more money than what was strictly necessary on power supplies, personally I've had a few cheap units go out in smoke/flames but they never damaged any other components.

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-05-06, 22:21:

Besides, a funny brand name does not necessarily mean bad quality, there's stuff like "Sparkle" (decent) or "Zippy" (very good) where dubious naming has no relation to build quality.

Yeah, well, there are somewhat silly old brands like "ELSA" (granny baked me a VGA card!) but "Xilence" just screams "marketing BS".
Took me a moment to appreciate that "Zippy" is a very serious brand, as it is the same (merged with?) as Emacs and I do own this freakish behemoth:
download/file.php?id=133615&mode=view
Now, that's a solid PSU! 😁

I won't use cheap PSUs. In early 2000's I bought a "fancy" 450w or something from the store I worked at.

The first time I powered the first one up it shot flames out the back.

I've also run into other crappy power supplies where the wires on the molex cables had melted.

And there are just as crappy brand new power supplies being sold nowadays.

The older Antec PSUs, which were highly regarded, had issues with super crappy capacitors dying. After recapping a few I just started scrapping them unless they were something super special.

Unless the PSU is something proprietary, I generally will not use any power supply that is not at least 80+ bronze rated. For the contemporary systems I have, I don't use anything less than 80+ gold rated from good mfgs.

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-06, 17:39:

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-05-06, 15:31:

AU8820 is the Vortex 1. You want the chip labeled AU8830. This is very misleading.

Hence my words about "beginners level" involving the original chip. Which I wanted. 😉

I got one of those AU8820 cards too, basically free. Maybe the incredible experiences you are about to have and share, will even inspire me to bother testing mine one day.

Problem is: they offer one unique feature (their own take on 3d sound), with limited application, and the need to use headphones to fully get it.

If 3dfx is a niche, then A3d is .. I don't know .. a tiny crack?? Certainly for those of us who spend very little time playing games from those few A3d-relevant years.

Shreddoc wrote on 2022-05-07, 00:50:

If 3dfx is a niche, then A3d is .. I don't know .. a tiny crack?? Certainly for those of us who spend very little time playing games from those few A3d-relevant years.

I'd give A3D a bit more credit than that, especially given some of the games that supported it (Half-Life, Jedi Knight, UT99, Deus Ex, Thief...).

It's not like it's an Adlib Gold or something. 😜

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-05-07, 01:00:

Shreddoc wrote on 2022-05-07, 00:50:

If 3dfx is a niche, then A3d is .. I don't know .. a tiny crack?? Certainly for those of us who spend very little time playing games from those few A3d-relevant years.

I'd give A3D a bit more credit than that, especially given some of the games that supported it (Half-Life, Jedi Knight, UT99, Deus Ex, Thief...).

It's not like it's an Adlib Gold or something. 😜

Totes. I know A3D has merit. I'm just outlining my position on it, as someone who

• doesn't play many PC games from those exact years
• doesn't appreciate FPS games to the extent that 3d sound matters
• never uses headphones.

I've got a technical appreciation for what they achieved, but practical reality is I'll probably never use it. There'll be quite a few people for whom similar applies, I'd say.

It's top-of-class for what it is, no doubts there.

Shreddoc wrote on 2022-05-07, 01:05:

Totes. I know A3D has merit. I'm just outlining my position on it, as someone who […]
Show full quote

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-05-07, 01:00:

Shreddoc wrote on 2022-05-07, 00:50:

If 3dfx is a niche, then A3d is .. I don't know .. a tiny crack?? Certainly for those of us who spend very little time playing games from those few A3d-relevant years.

I'd give A3D a bit more credit than that, especially given some of the games that supported it (Half-Life, Jedi Knight, UT99, Deus Ex, Thief...).

It's not like it's an Adlib Gold or something. 😜

Totes. I know A3D has merit. I'm just outlining my position on it, as someone who

• doesn't play many PC games from those exact years
• doesn't appreciate FPS games to the extent that 3d sound matters
• never uses headphones.

I've got a technical appreciation for what they achieved, but practical reality is I'll probably never use it. There'll be quite a few people for whom similar applies, I'd say.

It's top-of-class for what it is, no doubts there.

Exactly, although I do play many games that support it; but I don't use EAX much either.

why so many people talking down other's purchases lately? you don't need to have "the best" stuff to have fun with retro hardware, this hobby is for enjoyment, and I'm always happy to see what other people got, may it be that ultra rare unicorn or just a cheap thing they found and wanna have fun with, this isn't supposed to be a contest :p

imi wrote on 2022-05-07, 02:51:

why so many people talking down other's purchases lately? you don't need to have "the best" stuff to have fun with retro hardware, this hobby is for enjoyment, and I'm always happy to see what other people got, may it be that ultra rare unicorn or just a cheap thing they found and wanna have fun with, this isn't supposed to be a contest :p

I have to agree especially that I own socket 470 SiS chipset mobo's people hate - GPU's with slower VRAM than the system DDR is the reason they think their mobo's suck.
Actual fact i've seen recommendations of gpu's that the target system's ram is too fast for. Set your system.ini for your memory size on win 98se and your agp arpeture behaves better but your still running on a handbrake if your system ram is faster than your GPU no matter what system.
The true gamer tunes whilst the noob crashes 🤣