VOGONS


Bought these (retro) hardware today

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Reply 46300 of 52684, by TrashPanda

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Grabbed this nice Rhino 6VX with 64mb of ram and a 200MMX, also grabbed this 512k Coast module, not sure if this module will work ok in this board but I have a few other 512k and 256k modules I can test out. (Have a pair of modules with the very same cache chips on them as this board)

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Last board I want to get for my Intel Pentium stuff is a 430TX but I need to do a bit of digging to find a TX variant that will boot a Tillamook, apparently certain Intel branded TX boards were compatible with the 266 Tillamook, would be nice to have one.

Reply 46301 of 52684, by bjwil1991

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pan069 wrote on 2022-09-10, 06:05:
bjwil1991 wrote on 2022-09-10, 05:42:

DFI 286-12E and some ISA cards ranging from 8-bit SCSI (will modify it to have the SCSI boot ROM), Aztech Sound Galaxy NX Pro non-16, and SIIG EIDE Super I/O 16-bit card.

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600 (1).jpg

I have the exact same Aztech Sound Galaxy NX Pro but mine is very noisy. However, looking at yours and a photo of mine, I see that on mine the tantilum at DC4 (bottom right) is entrily missing. Maybe that is why mine sounds the way it does... 🤔

It could be the reason. Once I get the card, I'll get the exact uF tantalum. I have another one that I got for free back in 2016 and all of the capacitors are there, yet the volume potentiometer stopped working, so I daisy chained 4 resistors so it'll produce sound and it works fine. This one will be in another computer that I'm fixing up once I get the 286 board and get the corrosion out of the case since alkalines spewed their guts out and leaked on a BioStar 1333/40 386 board (that'll get fixed and get installed eventually once I fix the 33MHz turbo display segments since it's not working at all and only shows 2 lines on it, yet the rest of the segments are fine).

Discord: https://discord.gg/U5dJw7x
Systems from the Compaq Portable 1 to Ryzen 9 5950X
Twitch: https://twitch.tv/retropcuser

Reply 46302 of 52684, by xcomcmdr

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-09, 15:24:
bjwil1991 wrote on 2022-09-09, 15:12:

I know BetaMax was before VHS and it only had 1 tape reel that was visible and the other side was not. That and magnetic tape which can fit up to 5 hours of shows, movies, etc. If my memory serves, the BetaMax lasted from 1975-about 2002 when recorders weren't being produced since the sharp decline in the late 1980s and the last beta tape was manufactured in 2016 and had ceased since then.

It was better than VHS in everyway except ...Sony owned it.

Not... really. It was sort of comparable to VHS, at best.

Reply 46303 of 52684, by TrashPanda

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2022-09-11, 15:17:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-09, 15:24:
bjwil1991 wrote on 2022-09-09, 15:12:

I know BetaMax was before VHS and it only had 1 tape reel that was visible and the other side was not. That and magnetic tape which can fit up to 5 hours of shows, movies, etc. If my memory serves, the BetaMax lasted from 1975-about 2002 when recorders weren't being produced since the sharp decline in the late 1980s and the last beta tape was manufactured in 2016 and had ceased since then.

It was better than VHS in everyway except ...Sony owned it.

Not... really. It was sort of comparable to VHS, at best.

*points to the movie studios that used it till just recently, you know why .. it was far more reliable than VHS ever was, it could also handle higher definition content and audio than VHS could. Though technically the version the studios used was updated.

Beta was better, VHS was the poor mans solution and never really got better due to the dilution of every man and his dog being able to develop and use it such that very little improvement was made to the format.

Reply 46304 of 52684, by liqmat

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-11, 15:24:

*points to the movie studios that used it till just recently, you know why .. it was far more reliable than VHS ever was, it could also handle higher definition content and audio than VHS could. Though technically the version the studios used was updated.

Beta was better, VHS was the poor mans solution and never really got better due to the dilution of every man and his dog being able to develop and use it such that very little improvement was made to the format.

Speaking of a poor man's solution. I've been producing electronic music since the late 1980s and it was a well known trick to use Betamax tapes for your audio masters being fed from your mixer. Multitrack reel to reel recorders were expensive so it was a great lower cost solution and still maintain a high quality audio master even though you didn't have track separation. It blew away even the best cassette tapes of course (even VHS in SP mode was better than cassette). Glad those days are over, though, as digital recording leveled the playing field for even the most underground garage musicians. It was a pipe dream getting that kind of audio quality on a small budget back in those days.

Reply 46305 of 52684, by xcomcmdr

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-11, 15:24:
xcomcmdr wrote on 2022-09-11, 15:17:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-09, 15:24:

It was better than VHS in everyway except ...Sony owned it.

Not... really. It was sort of comparable to VHS, at best.

*points to the movie studios that used it till just recently, you know why ..

Arguments of authority don't count.

TrashPanda wrote:

it was far more reliable than VHS ever was, it could also handle higher definition content and audio than VHS could. Though technically the version the studios used was updated.

Beta was better, VHS was the poor mans solution and never really got better due to the dilution of every man and his dog being able to develop and use it such that very little improvement was made to the format.

Yeah, I'll believe when I see any proof.

For now I have the Technology Connections video series on YouTube about VHS and Beta that says otherwise. With far more details and proof.

I'll believe the far more informed source until then. :p

Reply 46306 of 52684, by TrashPanda

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2022-09-11, 16:24:
Arguments of authority don't count. […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-11, 15:24:
xcomcmdr wrote on 2022-09-11, 15:17:

Not... really. It was sort of comparable to VHS, at best.

*points to the movie studios that used it till just recently, you know why ..

Arguments of authority don't count.

TrashPanda wrote:

it was far more reliable than VHS ever was, it could also handle higher definition content and audio than VHS could. Though technically the version the studios used was updated.

Beta was better, VHS was the poor mans solution and never really got better due to the dilution of every man and his dog being able to develop and use it such that very little improvement was made to the format.

Yeah, I'll believe when I see any proof.

For now I have the Technology Connections video series on YouTube about VHS and Beta that says otherwise. With far more details and proof.

I'll believe the far more informed source until then. :p

You do you my dude.

I've watched that series and I dont agree with him but thats fine, I dont agree with flat earthers and anti-vaxxers either. I would rather believe the professionals that I know have used the formats in question for years because of their superiority over what I read on Wikipedia or watch on Youtube. (Especially when he didn't even cover Beta Cam, ED Beta Max or Super Beta Max)

Ill take the professionals opinion on the subject, I can trust them, after all who better to know than the people using them.

Reply 46307 of 52684, by xcomcmdr

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Yeah, no links or any sort of proof, yet again. This is going nowhere.

Opinions are fine, but for someone who wants to know more, this is disappointing.

I don't agree with flat earthers and anti-vaxxers either

You do you, my dude. 🙄

Last edited by xcomcmdr on 2022-09-11, 18:07. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 46308 of 52684, by TheMobRules

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Beta is said to have better picture/audio quality than VHS, however I was never able to notice any real differences with the consumer-level equipment I had access to back in the day. As far as reliability goes, VHS was already pretty reliable to start with, but again not sure how much it would matter to general consumers.

I think the deal breaker was the length of the recordable tapes, that seemed to prevail over any technical advantages the Beta format may have had at the time.

Reply 46309 of 52684, by Shponglefan

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Picked up a Viewsonic P815 today. It's unfortunately a bit buzzier than I would have liked, but in game sounds & music drowns out the buzz.

It also came with a TV Tuner kit, so I could use it with RCA devices should I want to go that route.

At the moment, just testing it out with my Windows 98 setup. Those icons are so tiny @ 1600x1200. 😁

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Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 46311 of 52684, by Repo Man11

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frankmonk wrote on 2022-09-11, 19:39:

Received these 2 beauties last week.
Sparkle ti4600 and Turtle beach Tropez plus
IMG_20220911_211534.jpg

That video card is a work of art.

"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 46312 of 52684, by frankmonk

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Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-11, 20:17:
frankmonk wrote on 2022-09-11, 19:39:

Received these 2 beauties last week.
Sparkle ti4600 and Turtle beach Tropez plus
IMG_20220911_211534.jpg

That video card is a work of art.

Yes, i love it's design. Probably the nicest from the ti4600 line.

Reply 46313 of 52684, by smtkr

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frankmonk wrote on 2022-09-11, 21:14:
Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-11, 20:17:
frankmonk wrote on 2022-09-11, 19:39:

Received these 2 beauties last week.
Sparkle ti4600 and Turtle beach Tropez plus
IMG_20220911_211534.jpg

That video card is a work of art.

Yes, i love it's design. Probably the nicest from the ti4600 line.

How well do those work in old 440BX motherboards? By the time I had one back in the day, we were all using Athlon XP systems. I remember they are power hungry.

Reply 46314 of 52684, by Repo Man11

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I bought another mystery box for $20.00 from the same person as the last one. This time it's an AT box where the case alone was easily worth it to me. Inside was a PCChips M520 with a K5-PR133 CPU, a Trident PCI video card, 64 megs of RAM, a Creative CT2900 and last but not least, no level 2 cache! It had an empty cache slot, and it turned out that the cache chips on the motherboard were fake. While I was setting it up, I grabbed the 256k cache module from a PCChips FX motherboard I have that I'm not using, thinking that it would for sure work since it was so similar (and at that point I was naive enough to think that it would be in addition to the motherboard's cache). But after I got everything setup, CPU-Z and Speedsys both said I had no L2 cache, so either that cache module is incompatible or it doesn't work at all (I never checked to see if it was working in the board I stole it from)

When I first powered it up I was pleased to hear a POST beep, but then I got the infamous "No keyboard detected, press F1 to continue" error. On a PS/2 keyboard I tried with an adapter, the keyboard lights were dimly flashing. I pulled the board out and began checking with my meter. The first thing I spotted was that the keyboard DIN socket had some cracked solder joints. I fixed those, but the problem persisted. I checked the fuse and it had continuity, but when I checked for voltage it had a solid +5 on one side, but the voltage was fluctuating between two and three volts on the other. When I pressed the probe to make sure it was making good contact, the solder joint on that side flaked off. I guess I need to buy some flux, because my effort to fix it with standard rosin core solder didn't work very well. I had to crank the heat way up, but the solder was not going where I wanted it to. I've replace lots of capacitors and other components on other motherboards and I've never had anything like this happen before. I even stopped and cleaned it with alcohol, but it didn't help. I finally decided to try testing it, and the keyboard now has power, but it's an ugly repair and I'm not too happy with it.

This motherboard is flaky, that's for sure. When you change the CPU you have to power cycle it once or twice before it settles in and POSTs properly and that also goes for changing the video card. Whoever used this must have hated how slow it was without any L2 cache, and it's amazing to me that it was left that way. It's nice that it has a PS/2 mouse port, but I'd have to do some chainsaw surgery to the case to be able to use it, so I'm stuck with a serial mouse for now.

Edit: I just discovered another reason it's been acting flaky; it actually has 128 megabytes of EDO, but it was only detecting 64. I removed all of the SIMMs and cleaned the contacts and reinstalled them, and now it detects all of the installed memory.

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"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 46317 of 52684, by libby

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TheMobRules wrote on 2022-09-11, 17:57:

Beta is said to have better picture/audio quality than VHS, however I was never able to notice any real differences with the consumer-level equipment I had access to back in the day. As far as reliability goes, VHS was already pretty reliable to start with, but again not sure how much it would matter to general consumers.

I think the deal breaker was the length of the recordable tapes, that seemed to prevail over any technical advantages the Beta format may have had at the time.

to provide clarity to this mild debate, beta I provided significantly better video quality than VHS SP did at the same playback speed. the problem with beta was that while it did provide higher quality, it also had much shorter tape length in the cassette. the most common consumer tape was 500 feet, whereas a VHS tape is 1400 feet. so originally, a beta cassette could record only one hour of video, whereas a stock VHS in SP mode could record two.

to address this, sony introduced a 2 hour mode in beta II which halved the tape speed, but dropped the video quality to be approximately identical to VHS SP.

however, consumer VHS decks were coming out slowing THEIR tape speeds to provide LP / EP modes for 4 and 6 hour recording. consumers were mostly using console or small television sets at the time which only provided 240 lines of horizontal resolution, so higher resolution of video offered in beta was lost upon them. sony trinitron TVs were higher quality (maybe with the exception of some toshiba blackstripe sets), but considerably more expensive. consumers greatly enjoyed the utility of being able to record far more OTA programming to cassette for later viewing that VHS provided, and this combined with sony being the only manufacturer of beta decks, caused prices of VHS to plummet while beta remained higher alongside dropping demand. sony started to lose money.

the US economy in the early 1980s was in a period of extreme inflation and high interest rates, and this equipment was all very expensive compared to today, so consumers were reluctant to finance expensive sony TVs and VCRs. keep in mind that at the time, purchasing a new TV set was a very, very big commitment. sets were $800-2000, a VCR was $400-1000, and a "good job" at that time paid maybe $12,000-15,000 a year. televisions and VCRs were a purchase you made expecting to use them for a decade or more, and were something you had repaired if they broke. very much different than today where a new 55" LED TV costs $499 and lasts 3-4 years and is disposed of if anything goes wrong. that new TV today costs the equivalent of $150 in 1981 dollars.

by the time interest rates settled down and the economy recovered, VHS had become the dominant player in the consumer space, and sony caved and started making VHS decks in the late 80s.

beta's higher quality and added features of course did keep it in use in broadcasting and professional uses where tape length was far less of a concern, as movies for OTA broadcast could be split across several tapes which were swapped during commercial breaks, thus the progression of beta / super beta / betacam.

anyway...

Reply 46318 of 52684, by Shagittarius

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libby wrote on 2022-09-13, 03:26:
to provide clarity to this mild debate, beta I provided significantly better video quality than VHS SP did at the same playback […]
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TheMobRules wrote on 2022-09-11, 17:57:

Beta is said to have better picture/audio quality than VHS, however I was never able to notice any real differences with the consumer-level equipment I had access to back in the day. As far as reliability goes, VHS was already pretty reliable to start with, but again not sure how much it would matter to general consumers.

I think the deal breaker was the length of the recordable tapes, that seemed to prevail over any technical advantages the Beta format may have had at the time.

to provide clarity to this mild debate, beta I provided significantly better video quality than VHS SP did at the same playback speed. the problem with beta was that while it did provide higher quality, it also had much shorter tape length in the cassette. the most common consumer tape was 500 feet, whereas a VHS tape is 1400 feet. so originally, a beta cassette could record only one hour of video, whereas a stock VHS in SP mode could record two.

to address this, sony introduced a 2 hour mode in beta II which halved the tape speed, but dropped the video quality to be approximately identical to VHS SP.

however, consumer VHS decks were coming out slowing THEIR tape speeds to provide LP / EP modes for 4 and 6 hour recording. consumers were mostly using console or small television sets at the time which only provided 240 lines of horizontal resolution, so higher resolution of video offered in beta was lost upon them. sony trinitron TVs were higher quality (maybe with the exception of some toshiba blackstripe sets), but considerably more expensive. consumers greatly enjoyed the utility of being able to record far more OTA programming to cassette for later viewing that VHS provided, and this combined with sony being the only manufacturer of beta decks, caused prices of VHS to plummet while beta remained higher alongside dropping demand. sony started to lose money.

the US economy in the early 1980s was in a period of extreme inflation and high interest rates, and this equipment was all very expensive compared to today, so consumers were reluctant to finance expensive sony TVs and VCRs. keep in mind that at the time, purchasing a new TV set was a very, very big commitment. sets were $800-2000, a VCR was $400-1000, and a "good job" at that time paid maybe $12,000-15,000 a year. televisions and VCRs were a purchase you made expecting to use them for a decade or more, and were something you had repaired if they broke. very much different than today where a new 55" LED TV costs $499 and lasts 3-4 years and is disposed of if anything goes wrong. that new TV today costs the equivalent of $150 in 1981 dollars.

by the time interest rates settled down and the economy recovered, VHS had become the dominant player in the consumer space, and sony caved and started making VHS decks in the late 80s.

beta's higher quality and added features of course did keep it in use in broadcasting and professional uses where tape length was far less of a concern, as movies for OTA broadcast could be split across several tapes which were swapped during commercial breaks, thus the progression of beta / super beta / betacam.

anyway...

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