cyclone3d wrote on 2023-02-27, 19:07:

It would probably be a lot easier to get consistent results thickness-wise if using a high resolution resin printer. […]
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BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-27, 14:56:

As someone who has messed around with rubber stick on feet and various other types of stick on foam for replacement bumpers... it's surprising how much force is required to compress even what seems to be low density stuff, when you have an area of more than about a square centimeter and apply the force with a flat surface.... i.e. stuff you can dent right down real easy with your thumbnail, may leave the heatsink hovering 0.2mm off your processor when the clamp is fully tensioned.

I would advise printing 0.1mm below the core for the bulk of the shim and just having a narrow ridge around sticking above it to compress.

It would probably be a lot easier to get consistent results thickness-wise if using a high resolution resin printer.

And with printed shims, you wouldn't have to worry about shorting anything out.

There are multiple versions of the metal shims as the bridges at least were in different locations on different models of the athlon CPUs

I never tried to mod Athlon/Duron by altering the bridges, but i though the small contact points were protected by being a little under the surface, and covered with some coating.
Some sources about the famous "pencil trick" described some procedures to allow good contacts when closing a bridge. Generally by scraping the surface (more or less, not sure how to describe that). At least, this was not described as easy as bridging two soldering pads on a PCB.

Not sure that a metal shim would make contact and interact with the CPU.

acl wrote on 2023-02-27, 19:26:

We have same issues with generic parts for apple devices, the pads is too thick bulges the metal plates when screwed down presse […]
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cyclone3d wrote on 2023-02-27, 19:07:

It would probably be a lot easier to get consistent results thickness-wise if using a high resolution resin printer. […]
Show full quote

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-27, 14:56:

As someone who has messed around with rubber stick on feet and various other types of stick on foam for replacement bumpers... it's surprising how much force is required to compress even what seems to be low density stuff, when you have an area of more than about a square centimeter and apply the force with a flat surface.... i.e. stuff you can dent right down real easy with your thumbnail, may leave the heatsink hovering 0.2mm off your processor when the clamp is fully tensioned.

I would advise printing 0.1mm below the core for the bulk of the shim and just having a narrow ridge around sticking above it to compress.

It would probably be a lot easier to get consistent results thickness-wise if using a high resolution resin printer.

And with printed shims, you wouldn't have to worry about shorting anything out.

There are multiple versions of the metal shims as the bridges at least were in different locations on different models of the athlon CPUs

We have same issues with generic parts for apple devices, the pads is too thick bulges the metal plates when screwed down presses on back of the screen, creating pressure mark on the LCD. Apple original is open cell foam and very thin.
I never tried to mod Athlon/Duron by altering the bridges, but i though the small contact points were protected by being a little under the surface, and covered with some coating.
Some sources about the famous "pencil trick" described some procedures to allow good contacts when closing a bridge. Generally by scraping the surface (more or less, not sure how to describe that). At least, this was not described as easy as bridging two soldering pads on a PCB.

Not sure that a metal shim would make contact and interact with the CPU.

We have same issues with generic parts for apple devices, the foam pads is too thick bulges the metal plates when screwed down presses on back of the screen, creating pressure mark on the LCD. Apple original is open cell foam and very thin, very soft. I either transfer the original pads or tear off the gemeric pads.

The metal plates is a requirement as connectors is snap on, which will will pop off when device get bumped hard enough if plate is missing, turning into potential warranty and a disgruntled customer.

Cheers,

Not sure how useful these will turn out to be, but for me more than half of the fun is tracking this weird stuff down. 😀

2x Artist Graphics 3GA 2MB PCI Graphics Accelerators ... most likely sold as a Netvision 2000, probably not a 2000i, due to the lack of SIMM slots... but there is very little information out there about these so I can't be 100% sure of that.

EDIT: Verified... this is a Netvision 2000: https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/graphics-cards/A … ISION-2000.html

Digitan DSAC-300 Rev. D Analog Devices AD18max10JS Sound Card with Digitan WT-100 wavetable daughterboard.

Got these for a very reasonable price considering the rarity.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2023-02-27, 19:03:

TrashPanda wrote:

which was then ditched quickly by MS when Windows 7 arrived so the drivers had to be yet again changed.

Nope. Windows 7 was retro-compatible with the Vista model. I use Windows Vista graphics drivers on Windows 7 just fine. For example, on my T43 Thinkpad.

It was changed but like you said it can use the older model you just lose the newer features added in the newer WDDM, much like Windows 10 and 11 can use the older model driver format or the much newer one. In Win10 and 11 however the newer driver format actually removes some features and shifts some of them over to the App store, such as the newer drivers requiring the nVidia display control App since it doesn't come with the drivers anymore.

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-27, 21:31:

Not sure how useful these will turn out to be, but for me more than half of the fun is tracking this weird stuff down. :) […]
Show full quote

Not sure how useful these will turn out to be, but for me more than half of the fun is tracking this weird stuff down. 😀

20230227_161232 (Custom).jpg

2x Artist Graphics 3GA 2MB PCI Graphics Accelerators ... most likely sold as a Netvision 2000, probably not a 2000i, due to the lack of SIMM slots... but there is very little information out there about these so I can't be 100% sure of that.

EDIT: Verified... this is a Netvision 2000: https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/graphics-cards/A … ISION-2000.html

20230227_161248 (Custom).jpg

Digitan DSAC-300 Rev. D Analog Devices AD18max10JS Sound Card with Digitan WT-100 wavetable daughterboard.

20230227_161309 (Custom).jpg

Got these for a very reasonable price considering the rarity.

If I remember correctly the digitan daughterboard may have proprietary wiring and not be a standard wavetable header.

acl wrote on 2023-02-27, 19:26:

I never tried to mod Athlon/Duron by altering the bridges, but i though the small contact points were protected by being a littl […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-02-27, 19:07:

It would probably be a lot easier to get consistent results thickness-wise if using a high resolution resin printer. […]
Show full quote

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-27, 14:56:

As someone who has messed around with rubber stick on feet and various other types of stick on foam for replacement bumpers... it's surprising how much force is required to compress even what seems to be low density stuff, when you have an area of more than about a square centimeter and apply the force with a flat surface.... i.e. stuff you can dent right down real easy with your thumbnail, may leave the heatsink hovering 0.2mm off your processor when the clamp is fully tensioned.

I would advise printing 0.1mm below the core for the bulk of the shim and just having a narrow ridge around sticking above it to compress.

It would probably be a lot easier to get consistent results thickness-wise if using a high resolution resin printer.

And with printed shims, you wouldn't have to worry about shorting anything out.

There are multiple versions of the metal shims as the bridges at least were in different locations on different models of the athlon CPUs

I never tried to mod Athlon/Duron by altering the bridges, but i though the small contact points were protected by being a little under the surface, and covered with some coating.
Some sources about the famous "pencil trick" described some procedures to allow good contacts when closing a bridge. Generally by scraping the surface (more or less, not sure how to describe that). At least, this was not described as easy as bridging two soldering pads on a PCB.

Not sure that a metal shim would make contact and interact with the CPU.

I did the bridge mods back in the day. Never had to scrape anything. The biggest problem was getting the bridge to work due to the space between the contacts.

The defroster repair kit mod seemed to work the best.

My guess with the scraping was to make the surface rough so the graphite would stick to it.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-02-27, 23:39:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-27, 21:31:

Not sure how useful these will turn out to be, but for me more than half of the fun is tracking this weird stuff down. :) […]
Show full quote

Not sure how useful these will turn out to be, but for me more than half of the fun is tracking this weird stuff down. 😀

20230227_161232 (Custom).jpg

2x Artist Graphics 3GA 2MB PCI Graphics Accelerators ... most likely sold as a Netvision 2000, probably not a 2000i, due to the lack of SIMM slots... but there is very little information out there about these so I can't be 100% sure of that.

EDIT: Verified... this is a Netvision 2000: https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/graphics-cards/A … ISION-2000.html

20230227_161248 (Custom).jpg

Digitan DSAC-300 Rev. D Analog Devices AD18max10JS Sound Card with Digitan WT-100 wavetable daughterboard.

20230227_161309 (Custom).jpg

Got these for a very reasonable price considering the rarity.

If I remember correctly the digitan daughterboard may have proprietary wiring and not be a standard wavetable header.

Yeah, I saw the old thread about them here. Seems like a pretty weird card. I think this is only the second wavetable daughterboard I have ever managed to get my hands on in several years of collecting, so I was happy to grab it anyway. 😀

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-27, 21:31:

Not sure how useful these will turn out to be, but for me more than half of the fun is tracking this weird stuff down. :) […]
Show full quote

Not sure how useful these will turn out to be, but for me more than half of the fun is tracking this weird stuff down. 😀

20230227_161232 (Custom).jpg

2x Artist Graphics 3GA 2MB PCI Graphics Accelerators ... most likely sold as a Netvision 2000, probably not a 2000i, due to the lack of SIMM slots... but there is very little information out there about these so I can't be 100% sure of that.

EDIT: Verified... this is a Netvision 2000: https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/graphics-cards/A … ISION-2000.html

This really is like buses - years of never spotting any 3GA cards, now they all start popping up at the same time 😜

The following ended up with me not actually getting anything, but I just need to vent.

A few days ago in a local auction site there was an absolutely pristine early Baby AT minitower, very sleek looking front panel with MHz display and all that, no yellowing AT ALL. No pics of the insides but I'd say 286 or 386, which is cool but my main interest was the case itself. And for about USD 35, with local pickup... a bargain with no risk of being destroyed during shipping!

Given that around these parts these AT cases pop up only once in like 5 years (and when they do it's usually a yellowed rusty mess), I instantly bought it. Shortly afterwards, I contacted the seller and since he was out of town we arranged that I would pick it up today.

Fast forward to today, around noon I sent a message to the seller that I would pick it up today after work. No response until about 4 pm, when I get a message from the seller telling me that this very morning someone contacted him directly about the case, offered him twice the money of the auction and convinced him to sell it to him instead. All in a few hours. Now, I don't know how this person knew about the auction or that it hadn't been picked up yet, maybe he was following it from before my purchase, whatever. So the seller just reimbursed me and the case is gone. I couldn't even leave negative feedback since I got back my money and the auction site considers that the transaction never took place.

What a shitshow... I already had plans for this case, and they were all crushed in a matter of hours. No retro stuff for a few days, I'm really pissed off now.

dionb wrote on 2023-02-27, 23:59:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-27, 21:31:

Not sure how useful these will turn out to be, but for me more than half of the fun is tracking this weird stuff down. :) […]
Show full quote

Not sure how useful these will turn out to be, but for me more than half of the fun is tracking this weird stuff down. 😀

20230227_161232 (Custom).jpg

2x Artist Graphics 3GA 2MB PCI Graphics Accelerators ... most likely sold as a Netvision 2000, probably not a 2000i, due to the lack of SIMM slots... but there is very little information out there about these so I can't be 100% sure of that.

EDIT: Verified... this is a Netvision 2000: https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/graphics-cards/A … ISION-2000.html

This really is like buses - years of never spotting any 3GA cards, now they all start popping up at the same time 😜

Yeah, some of this stuff seems impossible to find until... well, it's sitting there in front of you, sometimes with multiple available. Like the two Tasmania 3Ds I found within 30 minutes of each other recently. 😮

As for these 3GA cards in particular, I was intrigued by recent posts about them and just started digging. Eventually, I found some for sale, though I honestly haven't seen any pictures of this Netvision 2000 anywhere online prior to this. Only the 2000i with SIMM slots and the later model (2200 or 2500 I think) with the red PCB and no SIMM slots.

Based on the discussion in the one thread that exists here about these cards, it seems unlikely that these will end up having any practical gaming use, but after reading diagon_swarm's post and article about OpenGL MCD acceleration I think there's a faint possibility of it actually having some untapped 3D capabilities with the right drivers under the right OS.

I get a lot of enjoyment out of getting obscure old PC components to do things they seemingly weren't built for, so it should be fun to tinker with these when I have time.

Thanks largely to the determination of the VOGONS community, there really isn't a whole lot of uncharted territory left with vintage PC hardware as it relates to gaming or MIDI music. But there are apparently still some interesting bits of information to dig up out there, along with the obscure chunks of fiberglass and silicon that they pertain to. 😀

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 22:52:

xcomcmdr wrote on 2023-02-27, 19:03:

TrashPanda wrote:

which was then ditched quickly by MS when Windows 7 arrived so the drivers had to be yet again changed.

Nope. Windows 7 was retro-compatible with the Vista model. I use Windows Vista graphics drivers on Windows 7 just fine. For example, on my T43 Thinkpad.

It was changed but like you said it can use the older model you just lose the newer features added in the newer WDDM, much like Windows 10 and 11 can use the older model driver format or the much newer one. In Win10 and 11 however the newer driver format actually removes some features and shifts some of them over to the App store, such as the newer drivers requiring the nVidia display control App since it doesn't come with the drivers anymore.

Are you sure about the Nvidia control panel? I just installed windows 10 on my new computer I just built and I installed the lastest 528 drivers for my RTX 3050 and the Nvidia control panel is installed my computer hasn't even been hooked up to my network yet as I just built it and installed windows last night.

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2023-02-28, 12:29:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 22:52:

xcomcmdr wrote on 2023-02-27, 19:03:

Nope. Windows 7 was retro-compatible with the Vista model. I use Windows Vista graphics drivers on Windows 7 just fine. For example, on my T43 Thinkpad.

It was changed but like you said it can use the older model you just lose the newer features added in the newer WDDM, much like Windows 10 and 11 can use the older model driver format or the much newer one. In Win10 and 11 however the newer driver format actually removes some features and shifts some of them over to the App store, such as the newer drivers requiring the nVidia display control App since it doesn't come with the drivers anymore.

Are you sure about the Nvidia control panel? I just installed windows 10 on my new computer I just built and I installed the lastest 528 drivers for my RTX 3050 and the Nvidia control panel is installed my computer hasn't even been hooked up to my network yet as I just built it and installed windows last night.

Yes, none of my drivers for the last year have come with the nvidia control panel, it’s a seperate download from the App Store and updates independently from the drivers. No it’s not that trash called GeForce experience.

The newer driver format which is called DCH (Part of UWP originally) and in an essence is a more streamlined driver standard than the older format which contains everything including the kitchen sink, DCH only has what the drivers need for functionality and anything like control panels and such comes via the APP store . .Intel uses this format already and Nvidia does as well but not by default. I had to manually move my install to the nVidia DCH drivers when I installed a set of beta drivers back when they were pissing around with HGS and windows has never defaulted back to the old ones.

Not sure if AMD also uses this DCH format now but I suspect they are following nvidia and not defaulting to it unless the user wants them.

To get the DCH drivers from nVidia you have to use their Advanced driver search tool, though functionally there is no difference between DCH and the normal drivers other than the DCH drivers are a smaller download due to having the bloat removed.

Does DCH count as a new driver model ? or rather as a new way to deliver them ?

Its a bit of both though nothing radically changed this time around, if you are happy with the older drivers then stick with it .. I prefer the smaller and cleaner DCH format myself..bloat has always bothered me and downloading the huge normal drivers is unnecessary.

Looking at the nVidia site it seems that DCH is the default now . .explains why I cant see the normal drivers, doesn't explain why I need the control panel from the App store and you don't . .very strange

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-28, 13:21:

Yes, none of my drivers for the last year have come with the nvidia control panel, it’s a seperate download from the App Store a […]
Show full quote

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2023-02-28, 12:29:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 22:52:

It was changed but like you said it can use the older model you just lose the newer features added in the newer WDDM, much like Windows 10 and 11 can use the older model driver format or the much newer one. In Win10 and 11 however the newer driver format actually removes some features and shifts some of them over to the App store, such as the newer drivers requiring the nVidia display control App since it doesn't come with the drivers anymore.

Are you sure about the Nvidia control panel? I just installed windows 10 on my new computer I just built and I installed the lastest 528 drivers for my RTX 3050 and the Nvidia control panel is installed my computer hasn't even been hooked up to my network yet as I just built it and installed windows last night.

Yes, none of my drivers for the last year have come with the nvidia control panel, it’s a seperate download from the App Store and updates independently from the drivers. No it’s not that trash called GeForce experience.

The newer driver format which is called DCH (Part of UWP originally) and in an essence is a more streamlined driver standard than the older format which contains everything including the kitchen sink, DCH only has what the drivers need for functionality and anything like control panels and such comes via the APP store . .Intel uses this format already and Nvidia does as well but not by default. I had to manually move my install to the nVidia DCH drivers when I installed a set of beta drivers back when they were pissing around with HGS and winfows has never defaulted back to the old ones.

Not sure if AMD also uses this DCH format now but I suspect they are following nvidia and not defaulting to it unless the user wants them.

You shouldn't need to install from the App store unless there was a problem installing your drivers...

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detai … ndows-store-app

...seamlessly installed following the completion of the NVIDIA driver installation...

I recently installed 528.24 (last month) and didn't have to manually go through the app store. Driver is still 683MB, so I guess thats a lot of streamlined functionality 😉

spiroyster wrote on 2023-02-28, 13:42:

You shouldn't need to install from the App store unless there was a problem installing your drivers... […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-28, 13:21:

Yes, none of my drivers for the last year have come with the nvidia control panel, it’s a seperate download from the App Store a […]
Show full quote

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2023-02-28, 12:29:

Are you sure about the Nvidia control panel? I just installed windows 10 on my new computer I just built and I installed the lastest 528 drivers for my RTX 3050 and the Nvidia control panel is installed my computer hasn't even been hooked up to my network yet as I just built it and installed windows last night.

Yes, none of my drivers for the last year have come with the nvidia control panel, it’s a seperate download from the App Store and updates independently from the drivers. No it’s not that trash called GeForce experience.

The newer driver format which is called DCH (Part of UWP originally) and in an essence is a more streamlined driver standard than the older format which contains everything including the kitchen sink, DCH only has what the drivers need for functionality and anything like control panels and such comes via the APP store . .Intel uses this format already and Nvidia does as well but not by default. I had to manually move my install to the nVidia DCH drivers when I installed a set of beta drivers back when they were pissing around with HGS and winfows has never defaulted back to the old ones.

Not sure if AMD also uses this DCH format now but I suspect they are following nvidia and not defaulting to it unless the user wants them.

You shouldn't need to install from the App store unless there was a problem installing your drivers...

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detai … ndows-store-app

...seamlessly installed following the completion of the NVIDIA driver installation...

I recently installed 528.24 (last month) and didn't have to manually go through the app store. Driver is still 683MB, so I guess thats a lot of streamlined functionality 😉

Considering the drivers used to be a lot larger . .yes, I believe the control panel thing at least for me is because I have had it installed since the original DCH beta drivers which needed it because it had been moved to the App store, guess nvidia backtracked on that move 😜 (Yup this was something they had obviously considered doing . .or why else would it even be there)

Though for me the drivers are 834MB for 528.49! I still remember downloading over a gig of display driver at one point ..what was in it .. more crap than you actually needed or used ..remember the gaudy splash screens and adds ?

AMD DX4 100 beneath the HSF. Maybe a 16kB one, still got to find out.
And a very nice 300 Watt FSP PSU. 30 amps on the +5V rail.

Made a few more sound card acquisitions recently including:

• Sound Blaster 16 (CT1740)
• AWE 64 Gold (CT4390)
• Gravis Ultrasound Extreme (ViperMAX Synergy)
• Media Vision Thunder Board

acl wrote on 2023-02-27, 13:42:

I do, and i'm working from home today... […]
Show full quote

I do, and i'm working from home today...

mesure.jpg

I'm reading 0.65mm (can someone confirm ?)

Plus several CPUs

duron800.jpg
Athlon1000.jpg
XP1600.jpg
XP3000.jpg

No pictures from the side, but from what i see, the die is always slightly above the shim.

Thank you! I ordered some TPU to try this out. Unfortunately it'll be a little while, needing to calibrate my system and get my hands on a motherboard and process to test on. I'm definitely looking forward to it though!

PD2JK wrote on 2023-02-28, 15:24:

AMD DX4 100 beneath the HSF. Maybe a 16kB one, still got to find out.
And a very nice 300 Watt FSP PSU. 30 amps on the +5V rail.

That board looks grand, do you have a model?

Asininity wrote on 2023-03-01, 01:24:

That board looks grand, do you have a model?

The model number is visible if you look at it close up. It is a Biostar MB-8433UUD-A Ver:3.1 . Similar to the one in this thread.

PD2JK wrote on 2023-02-28, 15:24:

AMD DX4 100 beneath the HSF. Maybe a 16kB one, still got to find out.

Wishing you better luck than I have with that, keep finding 8kb AMD DX4s... got annoyed and bought an Intel one the other week, that'll teach them.

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-01, 04:09:

PD2JK wrote on 2023-02-28, 15:24:

AMD DX4 100 beneath the HSF. Maybe a 16kB one, still got to find out.

Wishing you better luck than I have with that, keep finding 8kb AMD DX4s... got annoyed and bought an Intel one the other week, that'll teach them.

I guess you can't make it out of this POST screen, I can see the S-suffix is there.