VOGONS


First post, by archsan

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Hi, people...

edit: There was an auction for an EWS64 S, ended less than Eur 4.

Since i am interested in the EWS64 series and have set my target for an EWS64 XL someday (complete with the extension box), I was for a moment thinking to bid for it but now i decided to let it go away, even it could be a steal, price-wise.

Gaming-wise it's only WSS, perhaps some SB Pro compatibility, but at studio quality output. Maybe you can also use the onboard wavetable for games but i think it's geared more for music-making. Btw the card above is equipped with 64MB.

So, anyone have thought for this specific "S" card or the TerraTec EWS64 series in general, for use with old games? Any user here? How does its sound quality compare to others?

😀

edit:removed auction link and related lines

Last edited by archsan on 2009-07-20, 06:06. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 15, by elianda

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XL has: Crystal CS4236B codec, Dream9407 2 MB onboard with RAM Slot, Waveblaster Connector in Breakout Box, Digital In/Out and 2nd Line-In on Dream.
S has: AD SoundPort codec, Dream9407 2 MB onboard with RAM Slot. No Waveblaster

For SB Pro both are good enough, I guess the Crystal has a bit better signal quality. I had no problems with both.
My personal impression is that the Crystal seems to be a newer kind of chip with more features, but probably not so relevant for DOS gaming.

The Dream is quite good suited for games, since the common GM/GS sets are based on the Roland Sound Canvas sets.
Advantage is 64 voice polyphony (with all effects a few less)
The most noticeable drawback is the rather weak reverb of the Dream, but MIDI playback is very clear.

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Reply 2 of 15, by archsan

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Thank you elianda, good to know there is a fellow here who owns both.

So, the S was different after all--SoundPort chip, isn't that the one also used in some Ensoniq cards...

Does the XL compare well to newer "pro-grade" PCI cards in terms of signal quality? What did you use these EWS64's for?

And have you tried using a daughterboard on that Waveblaster header on the breakout box?

--
Speaking of daughterboard, today a difficult situation has just happened: A Roland SCB-55 for auction, near my region :shocked" ! low shipping cost, and also looks like it's going to be a bargain...

I say difficult as i'm trying to hold true to this offtopic P.S. i removed from my original post:

Generally i don't like auction, especially outbidding someone else for something i don't bid since the very start or when no one else has put a bid (it's personal thing). ...

In this case, i just missed the first bid for a Roland SCB-55... what a test indeed 😅
--

Now back to EWS64's !

Reply 3 of 15, by elianda

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Well, I got the EWS64S in my computer that I mostly use for transferring to Amiga and C64, also for TV-Output of optimized C64 Signal with DScaler special filter and 50 Hz monitor setting. It is an Slot A Athlon 650 MHz. So the main use is, Line-In from C64 SID.

Then I got two EWS64XL in my Socket 7 Retro PCs. There is one with a Roland SCB-55 and one with a Yamaha DB60XG. Both are accompanied by a GUS.
Digital Output works fine and Input too, copyright bit doesnt matter.

Reply 4 of 15, by elianda

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you can check this site for comparison http://sound.dosforum.de/
EWS64 wavetable is the same as the one on the Maxi Sound 64 Home Studio

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Reply 5 of 15, by Silent Loon

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to archsan:

Also it starts with the Guillemot Maxi Sound 64 you will find much information about the ews64xl in this thread (including locutus approach to solve the "SBPro mute bug" - page 4):

SC8500 sound card - what does it do?

This site is still my EWS64 favorite. Also mainly for musicians there are many informations especially about how to configure the card:

http://www.studio4all.de/htmle/welcomeewst.html

to elianda:

Do you know about any limitations concerning the changing of the card's settings on the eeprom? I've changed my settings quite often and so I wonder if the eeprom will be "worn out" some day (furthermore as it is a used card).

Reply 6 of 15, by archsan

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elianda wrote:

Well, I got the EWS64S in my computer that I mostly use for transferring to Amiga and C64, also for TV-Output of optimized C64 Signal with DScaler special filter and 50 Hz monitor setting. It is an Slot A Athlon 650 MHz. So the main use is, Line-In from C64 SID.

You mean as part of an AV receiver for your classic Amiga and C64? Nice 😉

you can check this site for comparison http://sound.dosforum.de/
EWS64 wavetable is the same as the one on the Maxi Sound 64 Home Studio

Hmm, flashed through that page before, but haven't listened to the samples. Does 2MB vs 4MB ROM make big difference in the sound--or the number of instruments? Though, i'm more interested in your two retro PCs with the XL's--sounds really cool... And unlike a PCI card, they don't use an emulation driver or TSRs to be useful in DOS, do they?

Did you get them XLs new 🤑 or used? Complete with the box, how much does one cost today--roughly?

Sorry i'm asking too much--i don't know of anyone else with a bunch of EWS64's. 😊

P.S. Thank you Silent Loon for the EWS64 links!

Reply 7 of 15, by elianda

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archsan wrote:
elianda wrote:

Well, I got the EWS64S in my computer that I mostly use for transferring to Amiga and C64, also for TV-Output of optimized C64 Signal with DScaler special filter and 50 Hz monitor setting. It is an Slot A Athlon 650 MHz. So the main use is, Line-In from C64 SID.

You mean as part of an AV receiver for your classic Amiga and C64? Nice 😉

Well, it is just C64, since Amiga has a Video Out that is not suited for TV-cards. But for C64 it is a solution with standard components that can be easily transferred to other systems. Though simply plugging the C64 to a PCs TV-card does not meet the demands for a correct representation.

you can check this site for comparison http://sound.dosforum.de/
EWS64 wavetable is the same as the one on the Maxi Sound 64 Home Studio

Hmm, flashed through that page before, but haven't listened to the samples. Does 2MB vs 4MB ROM make big difference in the sound--or the number of instruments? Though, i'm more interested in your two retro PCs with the XL's--sounds really cool... And unlike a PCI card, they don't use an emulation driver or TSRs to be useful in DOS, do they?

Did you get them XLs new 🤑 or used? Complete with the box, how much does one cost today--roughly?

Well the EWS64 does not need any drivers in DOS, just run the initialisation software. For the Wavetable, if you plug a rather common 16 MB PS/2 SIMM on the slot you will have with the resulting 18 MB RAM space for every available GM/GS set.
As for the sound quality:
The card and thus the soundfonts are done more with focus on music composing than for DOS games. On the other hand you got with RAM the advantage to load nearly everything as soundfont, even combine with drumsets f.e.
Usually for DOS the Roland Sound Canvas is rated the standard. The main point there is that most of the DOS game MIDI music was made specific for the SC, so that it sounds best there. Though this does not necessarily mean it sounds bad on other hardware.
The usual side effect is, that MIDI music from a different wavetable with a different DSP sounds a bit different. Some tracks sound better, some worse. Depending on the wavetable you also got some influence towards classic, jazz or rock music...
Overall the Dream 9407 got a clear sound and usually well-balanced sound fonts.
I can make some sample recordings available if you are interested.

I started with a Maxi Sound 64 Home Studio in the days and bought the EWS64XL used in recent years. I usually paid around 25 Euros for an XL.

Reply 8 of 15, by elianda

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Here are some sound samples:

XWING Intro
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … xwing_dream.mp3

from Tyrian
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/afield.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/asteroid1.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/asteroid2.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/buysell.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/camanis.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … mposition_q.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/deli.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/return.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/rockgarden.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/sarah.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … acejourney2.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/tunnel.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … yrian_intro.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … yrian_level.mp3

Battle Isle 2
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/1.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/2.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/3.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/4.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/5.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/6.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/7.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/8.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/9.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/10.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/11.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/12.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/13.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/14.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/15.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/bi2/16.mp3

Descent
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … ent/descent.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … cent/game01.mp3

Transport Tycoon Deluxe
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … ttd/gm_tt00.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … ttd/gm_tt01.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407 … ttd/gm_tt03.mp3

Warcraft 2
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/h1.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/h2.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/h3.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/h4.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/hdeath.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/hvic.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/hwrrm.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/intro.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/o1.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/o2.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/o3.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/o4.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/odeath.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/ovic.mp3
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/sound/dream9407/wc2/owrrm.mp3

Result may vary, due to the specific soundfont loaded.

Reply 9 of 15, by archsan

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Wow...!!! Thanks a lot elianda for the samples! 😁 😁 😁

At around 25 Eur, i will definitely go for it! I was looking for a Dream-based wavetable db (i guess one of them is the one attached to a Monster Sound MX200--couldn't find the exact model/number), because Roland's are either rare AND OR expensive, and i only recently began an interest in the Yamaha DB's (and maybe KORG too)... but the XL looks like the best solution right now for a retro PC with an ISA slot (and a 5 1/4" bay) to spare:

Sound quality, major SB-Pro and 16-bit WSS compatibility, Dream SA9407 wavetable synth with a 72-pin SIMM slot, extension box for lots of extra interface and a 26-pin WB header, and--just as importantly--a strong user-base on the net (=lots of documentation).

I still have some questions, but i think i better follow-up on it after i acquire the real thing.

Thanks for all the helpful inputs, fellows!

Reply 10 of 15, by elianda

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I forgot to mention: For the RAM based cards, in my opinion the soundfont GSSBK320.94B resembles best a Roland Sound Canvas, I would even say in terms of instrument samples it is indistinguishable. Only difference is that Dream has weaker effects (but doesn't drop channels if polyphony goes above 28).
(the above sample files do feature the 10 MB GM/GS soundfont though)

DRUMKITS.TTS may give some additional Drumkits.

I have a nice setup that allows direct comparison. I got the EWS64XLs Dream on Port 300 and the Roland SCB-55 on the Waveblaster Connector at Port 330.
So I configured GSPlay with 2 MIDI-Interfaces. Because 'SB' seems to default to 330, I set MPU401 to 300. If I start playing a MIDI file the file usually initializes the Device, so after the first notes play on Device 1 I switch with F2 to Device 2 and restart the song with POS1. So Device 2 also gets initialized and now I can switch between both and it sounds as it should be on each device. (it doesn't allows to play at both ports synchroneously, would be interesting though)

I got a DB60XG on another EWS64XL in my second DOS-machine and will try this there too.

But GSSBK320.94B sounds really quite identical to a Roland Sound Canvas.

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Reply 11 of 15, by archsan

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I was going to ask about that: how do you switch between onboard Dream additional daughterboard on the 26-pin header, and maybe another device (or two) connected to the MIDI out ports?

elianda wrote:

Because 'SB' seems to default to 330, I set MPU401 to 300.

Did you mean you use port 300 for both Dream and the device on waveblaster header? Do they work that way in games too?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."—Arthur C. Clarke
"No way. Installing the drivers on these things always gives me a headache."—Guybrush Threepwood (on cutting-edge voodoo technology)

Reply 12 of 15, by elianda

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The Dream and the Waveblaster Header are different devices.
It is like two soundcards in one. The crystal codec chip has the usual SB Pro/WSS/FM Synthesis/MIDI features. They are all configured by PnP.
But it has the possibility to attach additional hardware, where the Dream DSP is attached. This additional hardware device is configured with a port and irq, resourcewise representing a MIDI interface. Lets call this MIDI 2, as the default MIDI of the Crystal Codec Chip is the external connector or the Waveblaster Header.
(external MIDI Connector and Waveblaster Header are the same, you can use only one)
This means the Crystal Codec looks like a SB Pro+WSS+FM with PnP , you can also configure where the Dream DSP is mapped into I/O.

So I put the default MIDI of the Crystal Codec to P330 IRQ2. Thats where the DB60XG is on the Waveblaster Header
I put the Dream to P300 no IRQ (IRQ is not really needed).

If you got nothing externally connected and nothing on the waveblaster, you simply put the Dream to P330 and disable the MIDI-1 of the Crystal (or put it to P300).

In the above post about GSPlay, SB is just a naming in GSPlay. The point is what Name refers to which MIDI Port.

Due to PnP you can even exchange ressources and leave games at 330.
If you want Dream, you configure it at 330, if you want Waveblaster Header -> move Dream to some other Port and set MIDI-1 to 330

Only exception is MegaEM, since it catches the I/O access to 330, before it reaches hardware, you can simply load it over any real hardware at P330 and it will play on GUS.
Thats the advantage of protected mode trapping I/O accesses. (see also http://www.logix.cz/michal/doc/i386/chp08-03.htm )

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Reply 13 of 15, by archsan

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Thanks for the explanation, elianda!
Very nice to have all those options. In addition, i read this EWS64 MIDI port FAQ, on the "Activating the Midi 2 device" section it says:

Check if one of the following IO's is available on your system: 300, 310, 320, 330, 340, 350, 360, 370, 380.

I don't know how many of those addresses are provided in games' MIDI port option (most, i remember, have 330 and 300--but these could be just the ones i paid attention to as i was using a soundblaster then), but at least if one had any original Roland MPU-401 interface, he/she can use it together with an EWS64 XL and set up three different MIDI ports.

Reply 14 of 15, by bristlehog

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Sorry, I don't get it: how do I make an EWS64XL work in DOS? I have only Win 9x drivers on CDs sent by previous owner.

Hardware comparisons and game system requirements: https://technical.city

Reply 15 of 15, by d1stortion

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http://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/EWS64#DOS_support

Also refrain from using any CD drivers... at least for the EWS. Simply download the newest Win9x drivers from the FTP server, they include all necessary tools for DOS.