keropi wrote:

n addition to offering high resolution, high quality 3D texture maps, the Hercules Thriller 3D also supports an extended set of "advanced 3D features" and supports an extended set of "advanced 3D features" and "3D special effects" in hardware, including sub-pixel/sub-texel accuracy, MIP mapping, trilinear filtering, and texture modulation for smoothly lit gaming scenes. Special 3D effects can also be programmed in micro code and executed on the Hercules Thriller 3D’s RISC engine, such as the water effects in Tomb Raider.

Amigaz, it is OBLIGATORY to post shots of that!

sounds groovy 😀

But isn't this just the "bling-bling" of what the Rendition Verité cards offer?
The Hercules Thriller jas the V2 Rendition Verité chipset

The Verite chips were interesting in that way. They were based on a general purpose CPU core (MIPS RISC) and were somewhat programmable. Regular CPUs use microcode for various things, including bug workarounds. Unfortunately this flexibility essentially equates to less performance than a well-designed highly-specialized graphics chip (i.e. Voodoo). Rendition was way behind 3Dfx on performance.

Nintendo 64 is like this too btw. The functions of the graphics pipeline are partially defined by microcode and this could definitely be tweaked/reworked. Some of the later games use customized microcode to really max out the hardware. The games that were developed without customized microcode were actually gimped significantly by poor SGI microcode.

Oh and there was also a chip called the MPACT that also was based on a CPU-like design. It was a jack of all trades and sucked at most of them. 😁

There are some parallels to this in today's GPUs. With the diversification into GPGPU computing, with the companies essentially trying to make their GPUs more CPU-like but still super parallel, they are becoming less specialized for graphics and that means they are becoming less efficient for straight up graphics rendering.

Hey guys, i just got one of these NV1 cards today, it's a Diamond Edge 3D 2200:

Apologies for the bad quality pic but it's been taken directly from the Mercadolibre auction where I bought it:

Does anybody know where to get drivers and the Sega games that came bundled with this card??, I don't know if the standard Sega PC releases support NV1 graphics because those are easier to find for cheap on Ebay, I was thinking into buy Panzer Dragoon and Virtua Fighter to test this card..

Where is everyone finding these? I'd love to get my hands on one but can't find one anywhere! If anyone has one they want to trade let me know, I'll be happy to let go of a fair few bits for one 😀

I also got one the other day from Ebay! It also included the sega saturn controller bracket.

copados:
I've made a list on the NV1 games here:
Re: 3D accelerated games list (non 3dfx/D3D/OGL)
Not many as you can see, but then again the card was a failure.

Drivers you can find on vogonsdrivers.com

RichB93:
They show up on ebay from time to time. I got mine from Holland for 20 euro. Another card was sold today on Ebay Germany for 26.50 euro (I was bidding on it, but decided to stop on 26 as else I would run the risk of having to pay import duty on it.).

I've tested my card (2200 version with 4mb of RAM) on Virtua Cop, Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter and Nascar so far. I'm appalled by the performance in Nascar. It runs very sluggish, even worse than in Swaaye's youtube video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhd4CUC8tcc ). I'm wondering if he maybe has the 3000 edition and that this is faster/better in games? Virtua Cop runs at 640x350 resolution, and it is playable, but the software version can be run at 640x480, so there is no point in using the NV1 if you have the processor for it. Panzer Dragoon also runs very nicely. I've also tested the Matrox version of Nascar, and that one runs very nice with all graphical details set to maximum. I'm wondering if it maybe is my capture computer that doesnt really like the NV1 with Nascar, so I will give it a shot in my compaq and see if there is a difference.

I will create a comparison video of Virtua Cop next in my 3D acceleration series ( 3D capture videos: API Comparisons )

Are there any performance differences on the 2000 vs 3000 series of the Diamond Edge? I know that the 2000 series uses DRAM (Edoram) and the 3000 series VRAM.

What are you searching? I've done a few queries on eBay and haven't seen a single card 🙁

I got one from ebay about a year and a half ago. It was one of the cheaper models.

RichB93 wrote:

What are you searching? I've done a few queries on eBay and haven't seen a single card 🙁

I have a saved search worldwide on Ebay for "diamon edge 3d". Then I get an email if anything pops up.

Thanks for the list, I'm already looking on my stash of old CDROM games for my copy of Tohshinden, but I would like to try the Sega games, do you know if the retail releases of these games had support for the NV1? or it is only a feature included on the versions that came with these cards? 😊

For the prices some people ask for NV1 cards, it's ridiculous. I only got the one I have because I was lucky enough to get a good price. For the handful of games that are playable on it and as hard as those games can be to find, it's not worth having it just to let it sit idle. If the sound card part was good, it might be partially worth it but the sound card part is no better than any other sound card of the time and many stand alone sound cards are a lot better.

As far as I know the only retail SEGA game with NV1 support was Virtua Cop. The other two was bundles.

sliderider wrote:

For the prices some people ask for NV1 cards, it's ridiculous. I only got the one I have because I was lucky enough to get a good price. For the handful of games that are playable on it and as hard as those games can be to find, it's not worth having it just to let it sit idle. If the sound card part was good, it might be partially worth it but the sound card part is no better than any other sound card of the time and many stand alone sound cards are a lot better.

Still fun to own one of the first 3D acceleration cards on the marked, but yeah, some prices are over the top. The games that are playable, either have better versions or just run better in SVGA mode on todays CPU's. With almost no extra graphic features it's hard to tell any difference from normal software mode.

The Nascar Racing version for NV1 has more graphical options, but that doesn't help when the framerate dips below unplayable when you activate them all. Here both the Matrox and the SVGA version wins hands down as they both provide a steady 30fps with everything turned to max. For Battle Arena Toshinden the game does look a bit better on the NV1, but here you have the 3dfx version which take the lead. It also have increased resolution (full 640x480 compared to 640x400 for the NV1). The worst NV1 supported game is Virtua Cop which looks terrible in it's 640x350 resolution, the game looks much better in software mode which bump the vertical resolution from 350 to 480.

The only game I think that really benefits in the NV1 version is Panzer Dragoon. The view distance is longer and it runs (atleast on my system) a bit smoother. Luckily that is probably the best game of the bunch. So you are basically stuck to one game that has any benefit when running them in 2012. Ofc, back in 1995 these games would not be able to run in 30fps in software mode even on the fastest Pentium, but that selling point is long gone, as most of us with Win9x machines have loads of CPU power.

Beside being a fun curiosity to own it probably has it's use if you are REALLY tight on expansion slots. Here you get sound, picture and modem in one card 😀

I'd like to have one but they seem to be hard to get and from what I've heard quite expensive for what they are. Problem is that cards aren't named properly on eBay. I spent a good few years looking on eBay for any kind of Rendition Vérité card, and now I have 4 of the things. 3 are identical cards I got in a bundle that I never use now!

Experienced three more things with the NV1.

1. It does not like a PowerVR card along side it. I had terrible performance in Ultimate Race and other games would not even start.
2. Whiplash did not work in SVGA mode in DOS and DirectDraw performance is terrible compared to other cards like S3 Virge, Matrox Mystique and the Rendition V2X00.
3. Windows video output is not as sharp and crisp as with other cards.

New 3D acceleration comparison episode with Virtua Cop NV1/DDraw is coming later today 😀

Still would like to try one. And I like niché cards 😜 Need to find a place to trade old cards because I have a TON of stuff I never use that I'd gladly trade for one 🤣

vetz wrote:

2. Whiplash did not work in SVGA mode in DOS and DirectDraw performance is terrible compared to other cards like S3 Virge, Matrox Mystique and the Rendition V2X00.

I've read about this. I have an Edge3D card but I have only tried the 3D games.

You should try using Scitech Display Doctor in DOS and see if it improves performance.

swaaye wrote:

vetz wrote:

2. Whiplash did not work in SVGA mode in DOS and DirectDraw performance is terrible compared to other cards like S3 Virge, Matrox Mystique and the Rendition V2X00.

I've read about this. I have an Edge3D card but I have only tried the 3D games.

You should try using Scitech Display Doctor in DOS and see if it improves performance.

¨
Could be, but I'm not gonna fiddle more around with it at the moment. Much easier to just switch the card to something with greater compatibility 😉 Maybe I'll take a look at it when I get my Sega Saturn controller and do some more playing on Panzer Dragoon.

vetz wrote:

Experienced three more things with the NV1. […]
Show full quote

Experienced three more things with the NV1.

1. It does not like a PowerVR card along side it. I had terrible performance in Ultimate Race and other games would not even start.
2. Whiplash did not work in SVGA mode in DOS and DirectDraw performance is terrible compared to other cards like S3 Virge, Matrox Mystique and the Rendition V2X00.
3. Windows video output is not as sharp and crisp as with other cards.

New 3D acceleration comparison episode with Virtua Cop NV1/DDraw is coming later today 😀

Leilei would know, but I'm pretty sure there was a utility where you could turn the PowerVR off so you could have more than one 3d accelerator in the system at the same time.

NV1 doesn't support D3D so I don't think that is the problem. I suppose there could still be some sort of conflict.

I'm not sure whether or not he was using the PowerVR card's acceleration. PowerVR is definitely influenced by the 2D card it is outputting through. I could see NV1 surprising in a new dismal way.

swaaye wrote:

NV1 doesn't support D3D so I don't think that is the problem. I suppose there could still be some sort of conflict.

I'm not sure whether or not he was using the PowerVR card's acceleration. PowerVR is definitely influenced by the 2D card it is outputting through.

Correct, no D3D support for the NV1. I was trying to play SGL games, but the PowerVR card is known to be grumpy with some other graphic cards. I started to wonder if the drivers had been messed up somehow so I spent some time trying to reinstall the PowerVR card. When I switched out the NV1 to the S3 Virge everything was back to normal and my M3D now works as it's supposed to.

There are some kind of conflict with the NV1 and the M3D, but if that is just my system or a general problem I do not know.

sliderider: You are probably thinking of 3DCC, a tool to select the D3D device in the system 😀