VOGONS


Choosing a Voodoo

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First post, by Yushatak

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I built the ultimate Socket 1 486 box and now I'm on to my next challenge. While pushing the 486 box to it's limits I found that I really became interested in Glide, and wanted a box that could run Voodoo cards. I have a 266mhz mobile Pentium MMX that I am planning to OC the heck out of (300+mhz) on an ASUS P5A board (I chose this over a VA-503+ after some research). The board has an AGP slot, five PCI, and two ISA.

I have no experience with Voodoo hardware. I had a Voodoo card when they were new, but I was about four years old, so I don't know the technical details. I believe we had a Voodoo II, possibly upgraded from a Voodoo original.

Anyway, I need some advice. I am trying to build an awesome Glide game box, but I don't want to go overkill (were any games even developed for Glide that could utilize the 5500 AGP Voodoo to it's potential?)..

With my system specs in mind, what would you guys recommend? A single Voodoo 5500 AGP? Dual Voodoo IIs in PCI SLI? Let me hear your recommendations.

Thanks.

Reply 1 of 25, by Old Thrashbarg

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A V5 is definitely far overkill for 300mhz. Those things really need closer to a 1ghz CPU to really perform to their potential.

IMO, a V3 would be the best choice for that system overall, with the consideration that a few early Glide games don't get along well with anything other than a V1... so it depends whether you want 100% Glide compatibility (Voodoo1), or better performance and image quality with maybe 90% compatibility (Voodoo3). There may even be a way to run the two cards side by side in the same system, for the best of both worlds, but I've never looked into it.

Reply 3 of 25, by Yushatak

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The idea is to choose a Voodoo card for this system, not build a different system. I do have a 1ghz P3 box with PCI slots but no AGP, but that isn't the topic of discussion right now (though I have learned that a V3 would be appropriate 😜).

Reply 4 of 25, by Tetrium

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Well, it would also depend on what games you intend to play on them. Even a voodoo 2 is somewhat overkill for a 300mhz pentium 1.
Btw, it might be worthwhile to get a cpu that you can get to run on a 100mhz fsb.

Reply 5 of 25, by Yushatak

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The board I have is capable of going up to 120mhz. I will be overclocking this mobile Pentium shortly and finding out how high it can go. For all I know it might manage 420mhz.

I want to play Gex, Unreal, Blood, Croc, Quake, Carmageddon, and just about every Glide game I can find that'll run on here.

Is it possible to put a PCI Voodoo card in a modern system with a modern PCIe graphics card and have it function for Glide only? That would be interesting.

Reply 6 of 25, by 5u3

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I reached 300 MHz on a P5A with a standard Pentium 233 MMX, so it should be no problem for a mobile chip.
Wouldn't bet on the 120 MHz FSB setting though, thats almost twice as high as stock.

For this kind of souped-up Pentium a Voodoo2 is OK, unless you want to play many of the early DOS-based voodoo games, then a Voodoo1 would be more convenient.

Yushatak wrote:

Is it possible to put a PCI Voodoo card in a modern system with a modern PCIe graphics card and have it function for Glide only?

Yes.

Reply 7 of 25, by Yushatak

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My P5A refused to post with the chip - could you post your jumper settings?

In the meantime I ended up putting it in my VA-503+ which accepted it much more happily. I tried every setting (this board goes up to 124x5.5=683mhz max setting). My process was as follows:

I stuck the multiplier as low as possible (2x) and put the FSB at a safe 75mhz (75x2=150mhz, this is a 266mhz chip). It booted fine but showed 300mhz, so I stopped trusting the documentation and started to make my own. The real 2x setting turned out to be the marked 4x setting, so I set it to that and it posted at 150mhz. I then bumped up the FSB one notch at a time and it wouldn't run on anything above 75mhz, so I put it back to that. I presume that's a chip limitation, since all Tillamook chips I can find only ran on 66mhz and I seem to be lucky it even liked 75.

Anyway once I figured out it didn't wanna go any higher in FSB, I tried upping the multipliers. I found out that the documentation wasn't just wrong, the board won't even do half of the multipliers it claims.

The board does multipliers with three FREQ jumpers. I made a chart of my findings:

23 12 12 = 4x
23 12 23 = 2x
23 23 23 = 2.5x
12 23 23 = 3.5x
12 12 12 = 4x
12 23 12 = 4x
23 23 12 = 4x
12 12 23 = 3.5x

Basically whenever I set it to any of those 4x settings it posts at 300mhz. I haven't stability tested or put an OS on this machine, so I am not sure if perhaps the BIOS just shows the speed incorrectly? Anyway I am going to steal the HDD out of another machine (win98 Pentium) and stick it in this box to test the CPU speed via software (cpuchk, cpu-z) and report back in.

Reply 8 of 25, by F2bnp

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You'll have no luck trying to get blood to run in glide mode. It's very very buggy and I only managed to make it run only once.
Well for a Pentium 1 300 I suggest getting a Voodoo 1 so that you can run most games.

Reply 9 of 25, by ux-3

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The interpretation of multipliers is up to the CPU. Most later CPUs use former low multipliers (1.5x or 2x.). So you should look up the multiplier translation table for your CPU.

I suppose all glide games take advantage of the V5 5500 if they can run in windows. AA will work with all of those I think.

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Reply 10 of 25, by Tetrium

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Yushatak wrote:

My P5A refused to post with the chip - could you post your jumper settings?

-snip-

Have you tested your P5A with another cpu just to make sure it's in working condition?

Reply 11 of 25, by 5u3

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Tetrium wrote:
Yushatak wrote:

My P5A refused to post with the chip - could you post your jumper settings?

Have you tested your P5A with another cpu just to make sure it's in working condition?

I agree. Make sure the board works first - it'll take any Socket 5/7 CPU. Flash the BIOS to the newest version - I think the latest is v1011 Beta 5.

My standard Pentium worked stable at 300 MHz, although I had to rise the voltages to insane levels: 3.3V core, 3.8V I/O.
Read more about it in this thread.

The jumper settings should be easy to figure out, they're printed onto the board (at least on mine).

Reply 12 of 25, by Concupiscence

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For an original Pentium with MMX I'd suggest a Voodoo2 with a decent 2D card, or a Voodoo3. Both can be had pretty cheaply, both support multitexturing, and both have integrated triangle setup engines, which will remove a little load from the not-exactly-stunning capabilities of the CPU. If the mobile Pentium is dead and your board's compatible with a K6-2's voltage, consider finding one. If I remember correctly, setting the FSB to 66 MHz and the multiplier to 2x triggered a workaround in the CPU to set the multiplier to 6x, and thus operate at 400 MHz. Just make sure the voltage is supported first.

Reply 13 of 25, by Yushatak

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I didn't use a K6 (I have a K6-3 somewhere even) in this system because they feel wrong with simple integer-based apps - I think it's the micro-op translation deal. Anything newer than a P1 has it.

Anyway..

I just won a Voodoo 2 (8MB Diamond Monster II) for $.99 + $6 shipping, hah. Most of the boards were overpriced on eBay so I got lucky.

There are also Voodoo 3 2000 AGP models for about $10/ea (BIN) - I plan to buy a PCI V5 for anything that this box can't do though, and stick it in my Core 2 Duo box, so I don't really need a V3. If anybody else wants one the links are:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VOODOO-3-2000-3DFX-AGP-12 … =item3a5b5b64cf
http://cgi.ebay.com/VOODOO-3-2000-3DFX-AGP-12 … =item4ceface118

Edit: Since I got it for so cheap, I spent a few bucks on a 3dfx case sticker, since the case on this machine has a blank spot for the manufacturer sticker on the case. 😀

Reply 14 of 25, by elianda

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I would say for a normal Pentium MMX a V1 is sufficient. If you go higher than a K6-2 350 MHz you might consider a V2 and with a K6-2 500 MHz or K6-3 you can think of using a V3.

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Reply 16 of 25, by swaaye

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I like Voodoo3 because:

1) all-in-one and very fast at all of it
2) doesn't mess up 2D quality because no passthru cable
3) it has fantastic analog signal quality (as good as it gets IMO)
4) run any resolution

I ran a Voodoo3 2000 PCI in a 486 once. 😁

There's no reason to wonder if you're running "overkill". Who cares? You shouldn't be in search of bottlenecks.

Reply 17 of 25, by Old Thrashbarg

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There's no reason to wonder if you're running "overkill". Who cares? You shouldn't be in search of bottlenecks.

Exactly. Yeah, the V3 will be limited by the CPU, but it'll still be at least as fast as a V2 SLI on the same system, with some added advantages that come from it being a single card solution.

However, I also think there's a difference between "overkill" and "complete waste," and a V5 on that system would qualify for the latter.

Reply 18 of 25, by bushwack

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swaaye wrote:
I like Voodoo3 because: […]
Show full quote

I like Voodoo3 because:

1) all-in-one and very fast at all of it
2) doesn't mess up 2D quality because no passthru cable
3) it has fantastic analog signal quality (as good as it gets IMO)
4) run any resolution

I ran a Voodoo3 2000 PCI in a 486 once. 😁

There's no reason to wonder if you're running "overkill". Who cares? You shouldn't be in search of bottlenecks.

I think the Voodoo 3 is the great all around retro card. Great DOS performer too right? And it's VESA 3 compliant, huh?

Good thing I got 10 of 'em.

Reply 19 of 25, by ux-3

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I second swaaye there: If it is to run DOS and windows, the V3 is the solution. And if you encounter a few V3 incompatible games, use a V2 or V1 in addition. You can even use both in addition.

But be aware: The V3 3000 AGP will not run on all mainboards due to power demand. In fact, there are quite a few mainboards, where it won't run. The V3 2000 did work on anything I tried so far.
If you are looking for V3 PCI instead, understand that a PCI card draws a lot more power. It wastes an awful lot of energy in its voltage converters. The case will warm up more as a consequence. I try to avoid it.

I have used a Banshee for some time in a P1 retro rig. I wouldn't do it again: The V3 2000 is more compatible (imho), faster and generates not significantly more heat.

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.