cskamacska wrote:

Dump it. :cool: I had big plans myself some years ago. I got hold of a A7M266-D motherboard with 2 mobile Athlon XPs wired to 22 […]
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Dump it. 😎
I had big plans myself some years ago. I got hold of a A7M266-D motherboard with 2 mobile Athlon XPs wired to 2266MHz, 2GB 400MHz(@266MHz 2-2-2) ECC REG memory, iPanel Deluxe, 80GB hdd, Aureal SQ2500 OEM(?)+Prodigy 7.1 HiFi, varying graphics from Videologic 3Dx to Geforce 3, with Geforce 6800GT/Ultra and Radeon HD3800 planned.
I thought this would be the perfect Win98/XP dual boot machine. Well it did not work out well as i planned, despite the fact the machine was fast as a 3200+ A64. Win98 had serious problems with more than 512MB memory, the board was discomfortable with a modern PSU, various driver troubles in Win98, the Prodigy 7.1 had IRQ issues even if it was alone, i could not put vidcards with back mounted heatsinks int the mobo, beacause the enourmus CPU coolers got in the way, the board was picky about IDE devices, and other nuisances.
XP portion was used only for web browsing, and simple office tasks, as i was playing the modern games on a C2D machine, and to my suprise a lot of Win98 games im interested in run just fine on the main Xp rig.
Recently one of the modules got faulty, and after that the motherboard did not accept any IDE devices.
That is my luck. 😦
Oh well, i had an Abit KA7-100 board with a K7100 cpu lying around, i used them to make a machine with the same purpose as the old one. My experiance with the new machine is much better, it has less ram(2x256MB PC133), and less processing power, but is much more compatible(ISA slot for DOS sound, Win98 is working fine with less driver trouble), and still feels quite responsive in WinXP.
Overall its far better suited for retro gaming, and while i really like that Athlon dually, it was total overkill for the task.

The 512mb + RAM issue is easy to solve with the unofficial windows 98 service pack so that propblem is nothing to actually whine about
You can have gig's of RAM without any issues with this service pack
http://exuberant.ms11.net/98sesp.html

Running win98 happily on a P4 3.06ghz HT 1gig of rambus RAM rig
The problems I've encountered are mostly speed related.

Does not work with localised version(hungarian) of Win98 I'm afraid. 😢 I'm a chauvinist pig. 😁 (but not sexist lulz - damn feminists monopolised the expression according to wiki)

cskamacska wrote:

Dump it. 😎

You sound like my wife! 😊

I thought this would be the perfect Win98/XP dual boot machine. Well it did not work out well as i planned, despite the fact the machine was fast as a 3200+ A64.

Win98 had serious problems with more than 512MB memory,...

Well, I wouldn't try dual boot, and I already auction the 2 GB off. I have 2x 256 left, which coincidentally amount to just 512 MB. Just staying safe.

the board was discomfortable with a modern PSU

Well, this board worked quite well with a core2duo and various PSUs, so I am not worried in that way.

various driver troubles in Win98

That is part of win98. No troubles, no win98. 😖

i could not put vidcards with back mounted heatsinks int the mobo, beacause the enourmus CPU coolers got in the way, the board was picky about IDE devices, and other nuisances.

I have been using the board for 3 years as my front line PC. My wife used it for another year. It had no operation quirks whatsoever, despite the "ASRock" warning on it.

... to my suprise a lot of Win98 games im interested in run just fine on the main Xp rig.

That is probably the most serious thread to the project!

while i really like that Athlon dually, it was total overkill for the task.

This is the key issue! How many games are we talking about? How much CPU does a V2 SLI need before its minimum FPS stabilizes or reaches 60? Does it ever? How many (good) games will not run on XP and require brute CPU force for top performance? I know hardly any. One of them is a real favorite of mine. Is it worth building a machine for it? I have all the ingredients except for a P4 with 3GHz+ and a cooler. I won't waste a C2D on this project - should I ever do it.

Actually, I had a working win98 overkill machine, based on an Athlon XP-M @3400+ paired with a GF6800. But it could only play EAW and little else cause the Nvidia drivers required for the GF6 killed most other sensitive games. Rolling back to GF 4200ti (AGP 4x model) solved that.

I will do this: I will install EAW on my retro workhorse and see how it flies (literally). Then I will increase the resolution and see how my V5 or GF4 can handle it. With flight sims, resolution is very important, cause most decisions occur at a distance - and a recognizable siluette is a key to this. And wings, if tiltet slightly, turn into staircases, anti aliasing is also quite important.

The 865PE conroe is one of the very last mobo's to have official 98 drivers. If you want to build a hotrod 98 machine, it is one of the best platforms to use. It is a known quantity.

If I was to build a dedicated 98 box, and wanted to stick with official drivers, that is what I would use. For more info I suggest heading to the msfn thread dedicated to this very topic:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/97588-modern- … 8/page__st__140

From memory, the geforce 6800 GT is the last nvidia based card to have official drivers for 98, although as you mention, compatibility is a problem with some games.

I have read more than once that XP plus specific game patches eliminates the need for 98, for all but a handful of games. To XP or not, that is the question...

buckrogers wrote:

The 865PE conroe is one of the very last mobo's to have official 98 drivers. If you want to build a hotrod 98 machine, it is one of the best platforms to use. It is a known quantity.

Finally there is someone who understands my primitive urges. 😁

From memory, the geforce 6800 GT is the last nvidia based card to have official drivers for 98, although as you mention, compatibility is a problem with some games.

Unless I really shoot for a "EAW only" crate, the card has to be more compatible. My 6800 is unlocked, so I can activate the remaining pipes and shader.

I have read more than once that XP plus specific game patches eliminates the need for 98, for all but a handful of games. To XP or not, that is the question...

That is true but I have made the frustrating experience that you sink more time in finding, patching and fixing the game than you end up playing.

ux-3 wrote:

That is true but I have made the frustrating experience that you sink more time in finding, patching and fixing the game than you end up playing.

For me, many a time I have done this and get as much or more enjoyment out of the sheer research/tinkering to get a game to work then to actually play it 😉

Not sure if that's the masichist in me or what 😜

What's the compatibility issue with the 6800 - can it be resolved by swapping between different sets of drivers or is it more fundamental than that?

ratfink wrote:

What's the compatibility issue with the 6800 - can it be resolved by swapping between different sets of drivers or is it more fundamental than that?

First thing worth mentioning: There are not too many drivers left to swap between - Win98 support ended after this GPU generation. I only have two official and one beta driver for that card.

The pros:
You can run a glide wrapper with AA enabled and still be faster than the V5 with 2x AA. And you can scale it correctly to a DVI screen. (But if it runs with a wrapper, it might well run in XP anyway - not EAW though)

The cons:
I have had a Win98se with a GF6800 and found that even driver swapping wouldn't help the tough cases - like Dominion Wars - which works sluggishly with a GF4 and cruises on a V5.

Since we all seem to agree that such a Win98 machine is only needed for a handfull of games, you can't afford to drop any due to card/driver issues. Or you dedicate the whole thing to a single game.

Let me assure you that there is no problem whatsoever using a Geforce 6800. I did see many others having some difficulties with this model (6800), but I guess it's all in the drivers. I use the WHQL drivers, not the latest one. At least in my case - where I'm using a Geforce 6800 Ultra. My link in that post will show you the graphic's bios screen. It's a Leadtek Winfast A400 Geforce 6800 Ultra AGP 8X.

And also, I think Geforce 6800 AGP (Ultra or otherwise) is the fastest card you can pair with a Win9x based system.

(I did manage to install the latest ATI Catalyst for Windows 9x which "unofficially" supports the X800 in this system. I installed and used successfully with a PCI-Express X800. - Played System Shock 2 without problems.)

Malik wrote:

Let me assure you that there is no problem whatsoever using a Geforce 6800.

So "Dominion Wars" works on your 6800? Could you specify which driver you use?

Hmmm...I do not have Dominion Wars to test with. I think it's somewhere in the forceware 60s region.

Well, this would require a more precise specification.

Forceware 61.76. And correction - not WHQL signed.

And as Amigaz said, the patch will help Windows 9x ignore the 512MB limitation.

Edit: I use this method to bypass this error :

Microsoft wrote:

Use the MaxFileCache setting in the System.ini file to reduce the maximum amount of memory that Vcache uses to 512 megabytes (524,288 KB) or less.

[VCache]
MaxFileCache=524288

Thanks.
Thats a version from the official Nvidia legacy driver site. I have tried all those drivers, but I always encountered some problems with some games. It may be my card, but I ended up with some in between driver for best EAW support.

ux-3 wrote:

Finally there is someone who understands my primitive urges. 😁

ux-3, please do not speak to me about primitive urges...

Fox did not renew a third season of The Sarah Connor Chronicles, and having just finished watching it on DVD, I am left with no way to get my Summer Glau as-a-fembot fix. Oh the pain...

(clearing throat) OK, back on topic. If the machine is also to be used for general purposes, including net surfing, bear in mind that internet security options for win98 are thin, and only getting thinner, and I have read that a good firewall is essential (which is a pain, since I had no joy getting a software based firewall working. Maybe a router's firewall would be better).

I have been using Avira free for XP and will be using it for a new win2k build, but support is also wrapping up late 2011. No win98. A pity since it seems it is the least resource demanding of the more reputable products.

Avast Pro (not free) still provides antivirus software for win98, but I believe this is wrapping up soon. Avast Free still supports win2k.

It would seem TV networks and software companies alike are completely insensitive to our basic needs. I'm leaving my keyboard to go and have a good cry now...

Net will be no problem - I do not access the net with win98. Games ony. Maybe some CD facilities, like two decent plextor CD drives.

ux-3 wrote:

Net will be no problem - I do not access the net with win98. Games ony. Maybe some CD facilities, like two decent plextor CD drives.

yuppers i installed 98 on my laptop and since it has max 384 mb ram i dual booted with xubuntu since thats slightly lighter than xp with a/vw i can safely google porn and believe it or not as lowly as this laptop is it can run some of my games under wine from the 98se directory and some seam games mainly the half life 1 series with steam under wine.

There are two kinds of Win98 games - those that work on Win98, and those that work on Win98 and XP. (forgetting WinME or 2000 to keep it simple).

If you have a game that works on XP, then run it on XP with modern hardware. If you have games that are old enough to require only 95 or 98, chances are you don't need a Pentium 4 to run them.

I'd say build an ASUS P2B with a Powerleap and run a Celeron 1.4Ghz. You get the compatibility of the BX chipset, the option of ISA slots and the speed of a low-end P4.

valnar wrote:

If you have games that are old enough to require only 95 or 98, chances are you don't need a Pentium 4 to run them.

As I stated before, I mostly agree with you. I just happen to have all the stuff needed. I see it as a great step forward in my coming of age, that have not started building the thing right away but merely debate it. I have come to realize that in the line "The things you own end up owning you" rest a deeper wisdom, and I have actually parted with lots of stuff.

I'd say build an ASUS P2B with a Powerleap and run a Celeron 1.4Ghz. You get the compatibility of the BX chipset, the option of ISA slots and the speed of a low-end P4.

The voice of reason that has taken a hold of me lately did actually even talk me out of the 1.4 GHz Celeron and convinced me that P3 at 1000 MHz will be fine. So I confined my retro activities to a very versatile P3B-F, which is in the process of fine tuning and spare build up.

Been reading the comments, and there are of course several arguments to be made, depending on the final goal.

Myself, I've not fully decided yet.
I've got parts to cover most set-ups post Pentium60 by now - and I wonder what would happen if I assembled my 865Conroe with my E6500(hmm should I buy a E6800?) and 'special' Gainward 7900GT AGP... 😁
(should work, and there are modded .ini files/drivers for Geforce7 AGP, but sadly not for my HD3850)

My conclusion so far, has been that a 3000Mhz win98 box would only make sense as a dual boot with XP.
Which actually does have some advantages, apart from the obvious spacesaving/1 box.

At the moment I've got a dual setup on an old Abit845 P4 1600@2666 and Ti4400. Granted, the win98 part has trouble at startup, often takes 3 tries to get a non-hanging desktop for some reason, but after 8 years I've kinda gotten used to it, heh...

Anyway, for pure win98(plus the DOSgames that work without tweaking), a 1000mhz BX board would fit just perfectly.

Still, my '20 year plan' involves assembling several systems:
- DOS win311, pentium100-233 socket7 HX or TX,
- DOS win98, PIII/Celeron 800-1400 slot1 BX
- win98 XP, Soyo 845isa, or some Asus865 with a CT479 and Dothan
- XP only, some 775 P45 E8500
- or/and a XP+win7(64bit is the next big thing), whoknows

But boy the amount of spares this involves, hdds and mobos in particular... oh well, that's why they call it a 'hobby', right ? 🤣
Though it IS kinda tiresome to constantly look out for stuff getting obsolete and making sure that one get the part before they're gone - latest would be the new hdd 4kb sector 'problem'... <sigh>