Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Discussion about old PC hardware.

Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-25 @ 01:09

I posted this over at another message forum on the Internet, and figured I'd post it here as well since it deals with older daughterboard hardware :)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(from the "XMPlay MIDI plugin" thread)

oddiophile wrote:Do not underestimate the power of the S-YXG50. It might not sound that good with plain General MIDI files, but it beats the crap out of everything else if you feed it some properly sequenced XG MIDI files. And with whopping 512 notes of polyphony, it can handle even the craziest / most complex MIDI arrangements ever created.

There were 3 or 4 versions of the S-YXG50 softsynth. The last version (for Windows XP) is the only one that sounds good (44kHz output, 512-note poly, improved sound set). The older ones (for Win98) were terrible - 22kHz output, only 64-voice polyphony and a really shitty sound set :)


I just downloaded and installed the last version of Yamaha's S-YXG50 (Yamaha S-YXG50 v4.23.14S WDM) along with the 4MB sound bank/waveset, and I gotta say that I'm quite impressed! Many of my own GM MIDI compositions, as well as others in my MIDI collection sound just "OK"... but playing any that were specifically sequenced for the XG are really impressive.


(rewind to 1996/1997 or so)

I was composing mostly on a Wave Blaster (1) and an AWE32 with the usual "8MBGM.SF2" soundfont that I had purchased on CD. Back then my current project was the score from Eternal DOOM, and since most folks still had only OPL FM synyh for their MIDI music playback, I had always wished that more folks had a decent wavetable daughterboard so's they could hear the music like *I* could hear it <grin>.

One of the members of Team Eternal/TeamTNT, Lisa Moore, was interested in upgrading her PC with a wavetable daughterboard, and the Wave Blaster's (1) were getting a bit hard to find. So, I suggested the Yamaha DB50XG... although I wasn't really familiar with it; I only knew that it had a 4MB ROM of onboard samples, so I figured it would be comparable to my Wave Blaster (1).

She bought the board and installed it, and played a few of my Eternal DOOM tunes on it for me over the phone... I wasn't impressed in the least bit, and quite a few times thought to myself "YUCK!" (although I wouldn't tell her that, as I had suggested that board in the first place <grin>. The stock GM setup when playing standard GM MIDIs was fairly "weak" to me.


(fast-forward to today)

Since the S-YXG50 (with the 4MB sound bank) is about the same/comparable to the DB50XG, I can now hear how the DB50XG would have sounded playing MIDIs designed for XG. Like the Wave Blaster (1), on the DB50XG you can create completely new instruments using the ROM samples, and they could be sent to Wave Blaster (1) via sysex... just like the DB50XG; with a utility for the DB50XG "XGedit 95", and a utility for the Wave Blaster (1) "WB Manipulator".

But, what I didn't realize at the time, was that the DB50XG (as well as the S-YXG50) has ALL SORTS of additional hardware effects processors; overdrive, distortion, feedback, etc..., which my Wave Blaster (1) did/does not.

The Wave Blaster (1) supports chorus, but that's about it... it doesn't even have a reverb processor: which was one of MY BIGGEST GRIPES about it. As, with the addition of reverb processor, one could reproduce the *EXACT* same sound of any of the E-mu Proteus MIDI modules (Proteus 1/2/3/FX)... which sound quite phenominal, espcially with the orchestral instruments (which is the content of quite a bit of my own compostiions).

Anyhow, I was fooling around with the S-YXG50 and playing the old Yamaha XG MIDI file "D_RP_02X.MID"... and all I can say is DDAAAHH-UUUMMMN!

I've had and liked that MIDI file for many years now, but had only previously played it on my Wave Blaster (1) and AWE-32 cards (with the "8MBGM.SF2" soundfont loaded); as well as currently with my SBLive (with my custom "Weeds General MIDI SoundFont v3.0" loaded). Now, mind you, it sounds REALLY NICE on those cards (and especially with my "Weeds General MIDI SoundFont v3.0" on my SBLive), but...

...the custom overdrive guitar sysex/instrument in that MIDI when played on the S-YXG50 (and I'm sure a real DB50XG as well) sounds, well, nothing short of PHENOMINAL! A far cry from simply playing the regular standard GM overdrive guitar sample/instrument on the S-YXG50 and DB50XG (which is what I heard over the telephone years ago from Lisa, mentioned above) :)

I was then "obligated" to play all of the MIDIs that I had previously downloaded years back from the long-since gone "Yamaha XG Free Song Data Library" with the S-YGX50... WOW! :)


Anyhow, in a nutshell:

I still am quite biased towards my SBLive and all of my soundfonts (as I can give most modern (as well as retro) hardware MIDI modules a run for their money <grin>; oh, and just rambling/reminiscing here... I remember years past really drooling over the Roland SC-88Pro when it first hit the market).

But... I had absolutely NO idea just how powerful that the DB50XG was (and still is), and how great it sounded! And, it's quite cool how well the S-YXG50 (with the 4MB ROM sound bank) can simulate the DB50XG :)


P.S. Heh, it appears that the files for the S-YXG50's 4MB sound bank are in actuality a ROM dump from the DB50XG :)


(Edit) P.P.S. Maybe you can tell me, what is the difference of the S-YXG50/S-YXG70/S-YXG100? I realize that only the S-YXG50 WDM version is supported for Windows XP (the others for W9x), but what's the deal with the other (higher numbered) versions?

e.g. Did the S-YXG100 include a larger ROM sound bank than the other two?
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby swaaye » 2010-10-25 @ 01:19

You need to dig up the mysterious S-YXG100 that was only for Windows 9x and did some sort of waveguide synthesis. :D And let me know what you think of it.

http://www.bestdownload.com/view.php?detail=94
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=2792.0

I just got a DB50XG myself and it is a very interesting board. Some things are a little weak (some wind instruments) but it has a lot of really cool sounding samples.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-25 @ 07:34

swaaye wrote:You need to dig up the mysterious S-YXG100 that was only for Windows 9x and did some sort of waveguide synthesis. :D And let me know what you think of it.


Judging by the stated size of the download at the first link (although the redirector on that page is dead) of 7.42MB, I'm guessing that it ships with the 2MB ROM sound bank and not the 4MB one. One thing that I have read about the S-YXG100 though is that it's driver has NO latency... unlike the S-YXG50 (which is about 90 milliseconds).

This makes it useless for real-time performance with a MIDI keyboard, and extremely difficult to synchronize with other MIDI tracks in my sequencer that also use other MIDI devices (i.e. my SBLive's "Synth A" and "Synth B").

Although, for the latter, I typed up the following for my own informational purposes :)

Code: Select all
Yamaha S-YXG50 WDM Driver Latency
---------------------------------
After the S-YXG50 receives MIDI data, approximately a 90 millisecond delay of
latency occurs before the corresponding note is actually produced, or the
corresponding MIDI data is actually processed.

Converting Latency Delay to MIDI Sequencer Timebase Ticks
---------------------------------------------------------
Latency delay converted to MIDI sequencer timebase ticks can be used to slide
an S-YXG50 MIDI track earlier in time within your MIDI sequencer (in order to
synchronize it with other MIDI tracks that output to MIDI devices that have no
latency delay). Note that you can adjust the "Time+" track parameter negatively
(in ticks) within CakeWalk Professional to synchronize the track in real-time.

Use the following formula to convert latency delay (in milliseconds) to MIDI
sequencer ticks:

((Timebase x Tempo) / 60) / (1000 / Latency) = Ticks

For example:

Timebase = 120 ticks per quarter-note
Tempo = 120 beats per minute
Latency Delay = 90 milliseconds

((120 x 120) / 60) / (1000 / 90) = 21.6

Latency Delay = 21.6 ticks



swaaye wrote:I just got a DB50XG myself and it is a very interesting board. Some things are a little weak (some wind instruments) but it has a lot of really cool sounding samples.


(re: "Lisa" in my previous post above, playing some of my ED tunes over the phone)

Heh, I didn't care for hardly any of the base samples when playing back a standard GM sequenced MIDI. But, if the S-YXG50 is any inication of the DB50XG, that thing can do wonders with it's 4MB onbard ROM when playing a properly sequenced XG format MIDI file (with custom sysex patch instruments and such) :)

As an example, play back any rock-type GM MIDI with an overdrive or distortion guitar (I dunno... maybe take your choice of one of the DOOM1/2 tunes, or maybe "Grabbag" from Duke Nukem 3D). Then, play back the attached MIDI... cool, eh? :)

That's some of those effects that I was talking about earlier in action. That thing supports overdrive, distortion, tube and stacked amp effects, as well as a plethora of others ("Variation" effects, as Yamaha calls 'em). Heh, on some of the fancier the external versions of the card (MU80, etc...), they even had line ins and outs so's you could use the effects for other things (e.g. in place of an effects "stomp box" for a guitar).

Anyhooo, that DB50XG was WAY more powerful than I thought it was in years past. Now, mind you, I still think that the orchestral instruments are weak (compared to my WB1, which sounds EXACTLY like a E-mu Proteus MIDI module... unfortunately, without reverb though). But, with the other effects processors that the DB50XG has, the pop and rock instruments can, well, really rock <grin>.

Man, I need to get ahold of one of those DB50XGs, but the other PC I have built up (that still has an ISA slot) has my WB1 mounted in it. Heh, wish I had TWO of these -> http://www.miditemp.com/miditempinhalt/ ... c13407.php / http://www.miditemp.com/images/doxboxhr.jpg ... too pricey for me, especially for two of them.

With an external box like that I could pipe the line outs to my current SBLive's line-in, and then apply the SBLive's EAX Environmental effects to the sound as well :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby butterfly » 2010-10-25 @ 19:15

Sadly it doesn't work in Win7.
Do actual wavetables work in Win7?
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-26 @ 10:37

butterfly wrote:Sadly it doesn't work in Win7. Do actual wavetables work in Win7?


Do you mean the S-YXG50 software synth, or an actual hardware wavetable daughterboard? Either way, for Windows 7, I have no idea.

If 7 is anything like Vista, from what I've read about the S-YXG50 (version 4.23.14S WDM) you have to install and run it in compatibility mode in order for it to function properly.

As far as actual hardware wavetable daughterboards, I'm assuming that Vista and 7 has some way to select them as a MIDI device for playback (?).


swaaye wrote:I just got a DB50XG myself and it is a very interesting board.


BTW, almost forgot:

An absolute essential for the DB50XG (or most any XG compatable device for that matter, including the S-YXG50); ESPECIALLY if you're composing on it, is the utility "XG Edit 95". *THAT* is the thing that can really unlock the power of that daughterboard, especially for MIDI musicians. I myself use that utility, along with my old archaic version of Cakewalk Professional v3.01 ( http://queststudios.com/roland/utilities.html / http://www.queststudios.com/roland/util ... ewalk3.zip ).

Anyways -> http://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/en/product/1017294

Manual -> http://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/freesoft ... edit95.pdf
XG Edit -> http://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/freesoft ... edit95.zip
Windows XP upgrade patch -> http://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/software ... Ppatch.zip


A note about the Windows XP upgrade patch:

This fixes a few non-critical visual/graphics glitches with XG Edit when run under Windows XP, BUT... the upgrade patch suffers from another problem. It won't show all of the instruments/samples that you can access on the DB50XG, and only displays the usual General MIDI patch/instrument set.

I Googled like a madman <grin>, and could only find one place on the Internet of someone talking about this problem (and there was no reply to his message post) -> http://discussions.hardwarecentral.com/ ... p?t=145574 :

Code: Select all
"I have installed the patch that clears up the graphics bug but it stops me from accessing a lot of sounds.

Anyone else have this problem?"
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby elianda » 2010-10-26 @ 11:36

Might be a bit OT but:
You wrote you worked alot with the WB1 in the days. I would like to have some info about this board, since I got one and Information is nowadays quite rare.
Can you tell something about these things:
- What is the RAM on the WB1 for?
- What DSP effects is it capable of?
- Polyphony?
- How does the Proteus SoundEngine is related to other WB Solutions of this time and to WB2/EMU8K.
- Is MT32 mode just a instrument mapping? (I guess so)
- Any other specials / customizeability of this board?
- Do you still have some special programs? (You mentioned the WB Manipulator?)

Back to topic:
I have one of this DB60XG rebuilds and I think it reveals its true potential when using XG. I have downloaded some XG example Midis and they do not have this typical 'thats a midi' sound anymore. (Difficult to describe exactly).
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby gerwin » 2010-10-26 @ 14:11

There is also a VST plugin of the S-YXG50. Which can be used using Savihost and MidiYoke. And the mysterious S-YXG2006LE VST plugin, but without GUI.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby HunterZ » 2010-10-26 @ 16:48

It's probably not possible to get MIDI daugtherboards working in Win7, as Microsoft removed support for DB15 joystick ports due to the performance hit from having to poll them. As a result, Creative dropped all support for the whole joystick+MPU401 subsystem of their cards. I found this out the hard way when I tried putting my old SB Live in a Win7 machine to use as an MPU401 interface.

Edit: Also, in the case of software and hardware MIDI interfaces that *do* work with Vista/Win7, you have to use a third-party utility to pick which one to use as the default because Microsoft removed all MIDI device related GUIs as well.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby gerwin » 2010-10-26 @ 17:09

HunterZ wrote:It's probably not possible to get MIDI daugtherboards working in Win7, as Microsoft removed support for DB15 joystick ports due to the performance hit from having to poll them. As a result, Creative dropped all support for the whole joystick+MPU401 subsystem of their cards. I found this out the hard way when I tried putting my old SB Live in a Win7 machine to use as an MPU401 interface.

Edit: Also, in the case of software and hardware MIDI interfaces that *do* work with Vista/Win7, you have to use a third-party utility to pick which one to use as the default because Microsoft removed all MIDI device related GUIs as well.

Good to know, nice progress from Microsoft there...
So either keep a retro system, or use some alternative power supply+ USB-Midi adapter to host the midi daughterboard.
Actually it's just that: Power 5V,12V/-12V. midi signal in. simple reset circuit, and analog stereo out. So with some electronics parts and effort one can use midi daughterboards on any PC for decades to come.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby HunterZ » 2010-10-26 @ 17:11

Yeah. I also had trouble getting USB-MIDI working because M-Audio was dragging their feet on releasing 64-bit Vista/Win7 drivers for my interface. I ended up buying a different one from E-mu/Creative instead (I felt dirty but at least it worked).

Now I have 2 USB-MIDI interfaces. Maybe I should hook my MT-32 and SC-88 up discretely instead of in a chain :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-26 @ 21:13

elianda wrote:Might be a bit OT but:


*NO* message thread on the Internet is unsuitable for me to ramble on about my old Wave Blaster LOL! :)


elianda wrote:since I got one


Excellent :) They're getting quite hard to find. Just the other day I was searching on E-bay for various things (SC-55, SC-88Pro, etc...), and decided to search for an old Wave Blaster (1) as well... NOT a SINGLE listing!

BTW, another site of interest, as well as a message thread here at Vogons -> http://sites.google.com/site/waveblastergm , and viewtopic.php?p=186469


elianda wrote:What is the RAM on the WB1 for?


The Wave Blaster has an onboard 4MB ROM which contains digital samples that it uses to generate the MIDI music (i.e. wavetable synthesis). It also has an amount of RAM on it (I'm not sure how much though) that is used to store preset data for the various instruments (you can access two seperate banks of presets).


elianda wrote:What DSP effects is it capable of?


Unfortunately, only chorus.


elianda wrote:Polyphony?


32


elianda wrote:How does the Proteus SoundEngine is related to other WB Solutions of this time and to WB2/EMU8K.


The Proteus SoundEngine is extremely similar to the Wave Blaster (1), so much so that many people refer to it as a Wave Blaster in a box <grin>.

As far as the WB2: The WB2 <IMO> garbage. Although it has chorus and reverb effects (via the EMU8000), it only has a 2MB ROM on it... hence the instruments don't sound as realistic. I've posted a message elsewhere at Vogons on the subject, (in a nutshell) back in the day I bought one and returned it for a refund the exact same day <LOL>!

Basically the WB1 is a Proteus 1 (albeit without the reverb effects processor), and the WB2 is a completely different animal... it shares NOTHING in common with the WB1; short of the name "Wave Blaster", and being a daughterboard.


elianda wrote:Is MT32 mode just a instrument mapping? (I guess so)


More or less. Presets are loaded via a utility that basically does a sysex dump to the unit, which remaps the instruments for MT-32 mode. But, it's a little more than simple remapping, as you can create completely "new" instruments with an appropiate patch editor (basically, simply combiing various onboard ROM samples, and adjusting their envelopes and such). I''m pretty sure that's what they've done with the sysex that's loaded when you set the unit for MT-32 mode.


elianda wrote:Any other specials / customizeability of this board?


Not really, other than the Wave Blaster Manipulator (mentioned below).


elianda wrote:Do you still have some special programs? (You mentioned the WB Manipulator?)


You can find WB Manipulator at http://www.hermannseib.com/english/wbman.htm . This is an *extrememly* powerful sysex based preset editor/librarian for the WB1.


elianda wrote:I have one of this DB60XG rebuilds and I think it reveals its true potential when using XG. I have downloaded some XG example Midis and they do not have this typical 'thats a midi' sound anymore. (Difficult to describe exactly).


Like I posted previously, those cards (as well as most of Yamaha's MIDI modules and daughterboards, and the S-YXG50 softsynth too) have a ton of effect processors on them. Tube amp simulation, various chorus, reverb, and distortion effects. Really makes a difference in sound :)


gerwin wrote:There is also a VST plugin of the S-YXG50. Which can be used using Savihost and MidiYoke. And the mysterious S-YXG2006LE VST plugin, but without GUI.


Thanks for the info :) Any idea of what the latency is with them? Can the VST plugin version be used (I'm assuming, yes) under Windows XP?


HunterZ wrote:It's probably not possible to get MIDI daugtherboards working in Win7, as Microsoft removed support for DB15 joystick ports due to the performance hit from having to poll them. As a result, Creative dropped all support for the whole joystick+MPU401 subsystem of their cards. I found this out the hard way when I tried putting my old SB Live in a Win7 machine to use as an MPU401 interface. Edit: Also, in the case of software and hardware MIDI interfaces that *do* work with Vista/Win7, you have to use a third-party utility to pick which one to use as the default because Microsoft removed all MIDI device related GUIs as well.


That SUCKS! Nothing like a Micky$oft "upgrade" <aarrgghh>!!! :( :slap:


gerwin wrote:or use some alternative power supply+ USB-Midi adapter to host the midi daughterboard. Actually it's just that: Power 5V,12V/-12V. midi signal in. simple reset circuit, and analog stereo out. So with some electronics parts and effort one can use midi daughterboards on any PC for decades to come.


I've seen a few custom homebrew circuits floating around the Internet to do just that... house a wavetable daughterboard in an external box (with MIDI In/Out/Thru, external power supply, and stereo line-outs). A retail version is that "DOXBox" thing that I mentioned earlier... heh, NOT to be confused with "DOSBox" <LOL>!


HunterZ wrote:Now I have 2 USB-MIDI interfaces. Maybe I should hook my MT-32 and SC-88 up discretely instead of in a chain :)


I'm assuming that if you do, that they will show up in WinDoZe as independant MIDI devices? If so, 'twould definately be an advantage (especially for composing) :)


@All,

P.S. Soon I'll be uploading an original tune of mine (sequenced back in '96 or so), revamped for the XG compatble hardware, as well as the S-YXG50 :) Damn, those rock guitars sure sound nice! :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby HunterZ » 2010-10-26 @ 21:47

rfnagel wrote:BTW, another site of interest, as well as a message thread here at Vogons -> http://sites.google.com/site/waveblastergm , and viewtopic.php?p=186469

Interesting. I'll have to check out those WB/SC comparison recordings.

rfnagel wrote:
gerwin wrote:or use some alternative power supply+ USB-Midi adapter to host the midi daughterboard. Actually it's just that: Power 5V,12V/-12V. midi signal in. simple reset circuit, and analog stereo out. So with some electronics parts and effort one can use midi daughterboards on any PC for decades to come.


I've seen a few custom homebrew circuits floating around the Internet to do just that... house a wavetable daughterboard in an external box (with MIDI In/Out/Thru, external power supply, and stereo line-outs). A retail version is that "DOXBox" thing that I mentioned earlier... heh, NOT to be confused with "DOSBox" <LOL>!

Found the WB pinouts with a quick google: http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/waveblaster.html

Looks pretty straightforward, except it looks like it may use TTL input for the MIDI IN. Did another google for midi ttl optocoupler and found this: http://atari.nvg.org/db50xg/

rfnagel wrote:
HunterZ wrote:Now I have 2 USB-MIDI interfaces. Maybe I should hook my MT-32 and SC-88 up discretely instead of in a chain :)


I'm assuming that if you do, that they will show up in WinDoZe as independant MIDI devices? If so, 'twould definately be an advantage (especially for composing) :)

Yeah, each USB-MIDI interface should be a separate device. If I were using Cakewalk or whatever I should be able to compose tunes that play independent tracks on both synths as the same time. I mostly use them with DOSBox, though, so it would allow me to switch the active synth in software instead of having to turn on and mute my SC-88 in order for my MT-32 to receive data.

On second thought I'd still have to do that anyways, though, because I only have one line-in on my PC for the audio outputs of the synths...

Right now I have the MIDI OUT of my USB-MIDI interface connected to my SC-88 MIDI IN, and then the MIDI THRU is connected to my MT-32 MIDI IN. The MT-32 audio outputs are connected to a line-in jack on the back of the SC-88 (which has its own trim pot so that I can equalize the MT-32 volume with the SC-88 volume if needed) and then the SC-88 audio out goes to a custom line-in bracket on my PC(*).

(*) - My current desktop has an Asus Xonar DX sound card, whose line-in jack doubles as a TOSLINK (optical SPDIF) output that I'm using, so I couldn't plug my synths into that. However, the card has an AC97/IntelHD pin header for connecting to front panel audio I/O, so I built a custom line-in jack bracket using accessories from an old motherboard that plugs into that header on the sound card :) Only problem I've had is that the synths come through as a bit quieter than game sounds at normal levels.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-27 @ 02:48

HunterZ wrote:Interesting. I'll have to check out those WB/SC comparison recordings.


Back in the day, the Proteus 1/2 was really considered the bee's knees as far as pop/orchestral type stuff.

(edit) BTW, check the two MP3s that I uploaded towards the end of this thread -> viewtopic.php?t=24123&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20 .


HunterZ wrote:Found the WB pinouts with a quick google: http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/waveblaster.html

Looks pretty straightforward, except it looks like it may use TTL input for the MIDI IN. Did another google for midi ttl optocoupler and found this: http://atari.nvg.org/db50xg/



Yeah, I've seen that site before (and one or two others throughout the years that I can't remember the link). You can't directly connect the MIDI lines, hence the optocoupler. BTW, the pinouts; if you have (or rather, have installed the drivers) an SBLive or an Audigy, check out the "HWInfo.hlp" help file that ships with it :)


HunterZ wrote:Yeah, each USB-MIDI interface should be a separate device. If I were using Cakewalk or whatever I should be able to compose tunes that play independent tracks on both synths as the same time.


Yep, that's what I was refering to :) On my setup, I've been simultaneously using my SBLive's "Synth A" and "Synth B", and occasionally the S-YXG50 along with it. Heh, now I need two of those DOXBox's, a DB50XG, and to install my WB1 and the DB50XG in each of them <grin> :)

Heh, actually, I'm seriously considering an Ebay MU50 :)

(Re: your SC-88) As I posted previously, a buddy and me used to drool over that one (the SC-88Pro) back in the day :) Heh, those things are still a bit pricey over at EBay, even today. What is the sample ROM size on yours? IIRC the SC-88 was 20MB, and the SC-88Pro was 40MB (but I may be wrong about that).


HunterZ wrote:On second thought I'd still have to do that anyways, though, because I only have one line-in on my PC for the audio outputs of the synths... The MT-32 audio outputs are connected to a line-in jack on the back of the SC-88 (which has its own trim pot so that I can equalize the MT-32 volume with the SC-88 volume if needed) and then the SC-88 audio out goes to a custom line-in bracket on my PC(*).


One option for ya may be a simple non-powered mixer. IIRC Radio Shack sells a fairly inexpensive 4-channel mixer that would fit the ticket for that perfectly. Plus, you'ld have an extra input or two for other (or future) devices :)
Last edited by rfnagel on 2010-10-27 @ 03:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-27 @ 02:51

rfnagel wrote:P.S. Soon I'll be uploading an original tune of mine (sequenced back in '96 or so), revamped for the XG compatble hardware, as well as the S-YXG50 :) Damn, those rock guitars sure sound nice! :)


Been "Rockin' in the Backwoods" <grin>.

Here's one that I had originally written back in '96 or so, but had never finished. Decided to go ahead and finish it up (in Yamaha XG format), and record it to an MP3... all synth-ed from the S-YXG50 :)

* http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Weeds_Mu ... e_Live.mp3 *

A live rock concert performance sort of thing, with a driving Classic Rock style that everyone is sure to like... well... at least the screaming girls and the audience in the MP3 seem to like it <grin>!

Crank yer speakers up and rock out. Oh, and cheer along with the crowd <grin> :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby HunterZ » 2010-10-27 @ 14:52

rfnagel wrote:(Re: your SC-88) As I posted previously, a buddy and me used to drool over that one (the SC-88Pro) back in the day :) Heh, those things are still a bit pricey over at EBay, even today. What is the sample ROM size on yours? IIRC the SC-88 was 20MB, and the SC-88Pro was 40MB (but I may be wrong about that).

Not sure, would have to check the manual maybe, but this site says 16MB compressed to 8MB: http://home.roadrunner.com/~jgglatt/tutr/roland.htm

I don't think that says anything about the quality of the sounds, though, as I'm pretty sure the SC-88Pro is mostly different in that it has a higher *quantity* of sounds. I'm pretty happy with my SC-88, as I was really looking for an SC-55MkII or higher anyways. The SC-88 actually has an explicit SC-55MkII mode, but I usually leave it in SC-88 mode because it sounds slightly better (especially the brass instruments, if I recall correctly).

rfnagel wrote:One option for ya may be a simple non-powered mixer. IIRC Radio Shack sells a fairly inexpensive 4-channel mixer that would fit the ticket for that perfectly. Plus, you'ld have an extra input or two for other (or future) devices :)

Unfortunately they only show a $30 powered mixer (battery and AC adapter not included) that most of the reviews on their own site claim adds a lot of hissing noise.

I do think I'd want a powered one in my case, though, since the individual synths come through quiet on my sound card's line-in to begin with.

A couple years ago I started breadboarding a stereo mixer + preamp circuit from some schematics I found online, but I ran out of opamps because the power supply part of the circuit used some of them to split 9V into +4.5V and -4.5V in addition to the ones used for the mixer part of the circuit. Probably wouldn't have been super-high quality anyways :p
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-27 @ 15:16

HunterZ wrote:Not sure, would have to check the manual maybe, but this site says 16MB compressed to 8MB: http://home.roadrunner.com/~jgglatt/tutr/roland.htm I don't think that says anything about the quality of the sounds, though, as I'm pretty sure the SC-88Pro is mostly different in that it has a higher *quantity* of sounds.


Thanks for the info :) I just remember drooling over the MP3 samples that Roland had over at their web site back in the day... damn, IIRC 14.4k baud for my dialup <grin>!


HunterZ wrote:Unfortunately they only show a $30 powered mixer (battery and AC adapter not included) that most of the reviews on their own site claim adds a lot of hissing noise. I do think I'd want a powered one in my case, though, since the individual synths come through quiet on my sound card's line-in to begin with.


Yeah, in that case you'ld proly want something powered.

BTW FYI, if you happen across a Behringer, RUN LIKE A MADMAN <LOL>! A buddy and I had a EuroRack UB2332FX-Pro. That things was the noisiest and hissiest piece of crapola that I've ever seen! The effects processor(s) was so damn noisy that it was USELESS for anything but a doorstop.

Later on we purchased an Allen-Heath (don't remember the model offhand)... that one was top-notch :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby HunterZ » 2010-10-27 @ 15:44

Good to know, as I saw some Behringer models on the music equipment sites.

The simplest-looking Allen&Heath mixer on their site goes for like $800 on Amazon. I remember looking at mixers a while back and giving up due to the high cost.

There are some decent-looking ones at around $80-100 like the ART PowerMix III, but I'd rather spend under $50 if possible.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-27 @ 17:41

HunterZ wrote:Good to know, as I saw some Behringer models on the music equipment sites.


Yep... and when I say "doorstop", I MEAN doorstop <LOL>! That thing was garbage, and never saw the light of day outside of the band room!


HunterZ wrote:The simplest-looking Allen&Heath mixer on their site goes for like $800 on Amazon. I remember looking at mixers a while back and giving up due to the high cost.


Yeah, those Allen and Heath's are quite pricey... I forget how much we paid for ours (24 channel, digitial effects, USB, etc...), but it was a bunch.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby gerwin » 2010-10-27 @ 18:52

rfnagel wrote:
HunterZ wrote:Found the WB pinouts with a quick google: http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/waveblaster.html
Looks pretty straightforward, except it looks like it may use TTL input for the MIDI IN. Did another google for midi ttl optocoupler and found this: http://atari.nvg.org/db50xg/
Yeah, I've seen that site before (and one or two others throughout the years that I can't remember the link). You can't directly connect the MIDI lines, hence the optocoupler. BTW, the pinouts; if you have (or rather, have installed the drivers) an SBLive or an Audigy, check out the "HWInfo.hlp" help file that ships with it :)

I made this daughterboard adapter a while ago: Link to post with Picture It is fed directly by the computer's PSU and soundcards, and therefor can function fine with a direct electrical connection, no opto-coupler. The main usage of the adapter is allowing me to swap daughterboards fast, without even having to reset the computer (just power of the DB host). Also it allows me to have two soundcards interfacing the DB at once: one dos soundcard, one windows soundcard.

PS. The midi signal is typically 5V, but I have seen soundcards outputting 3,5V instead.

PS2. The whole soundcard industry seems undecided about what is left and right of the stereo output of the waveblaster connector.
Ah, that was the third reason for building the adapter.

rfnagel wrote:Yep, that's what I was refering to :) On my setup, I've been simultaneously using my SBLive's "Synth A" and "Synth B", and occasionally the S-YXG50 along with it. Heh, now I need two of those DOXBox's, a DB50XG, and to install my WB1 and the DB50XG in each of them <grin> :)

Cloudschatze wrote something worrysome about the DOXBox; about it having audible internal interference. I suspect the 12V to -12V power conversion is the culprit. I wonder what Miditemp's statement is on this matter.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby HunterZ » 2010-10-27 @ 19:07

gerwin wrote:I made this daughterboard adapter a while ago: Link to post with Picture It is fed directly by the computer's PSU and soundcards, and therefor can function fine with a direct electrical connection, no opto-coupler. The main usage of the adapter is allowing me to swap daughterboards fast, without even having to reset the computer (just power of the DB host). Also it allows me to have two soundcards interfacing the DB at once: one dos soundcard, one windows soundcard.

PS. The midi signal is typically 5V, but I have seen soundcards outputting 3,5V instead.

PS2. The whole soundcard industry seems undecided about what is left and right of the stereo output of the waveblaster connector.
Ah, that was the third reason for building the adapter.

Woah that's a crazy piece of work. How good is the ADC of the host card that is converting the MIDI daughterboard output to SPDIF?

I was thinking it would be possible to make an external box that you could plug a MIDI daughterboard into without a host card, by powering it with a low-wattage ATX PSU (since it has the +12V, -12V and +5V) and parts of the schematics I posted earlier. Were I to build one, it would probably be easier for me to use an old sound card as a host than to find an optocoupler though :P
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