Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby ratfink » 2011-3-09 @ 19:46

I'm playing that xg'd doom midi on my sw60xg. The drums are really loud and the guitar is soft and muffled.

It's not the speaker cable, and other xg midi's seem to sound ok. Heretic midi plays fine on it.

It sounds like one part of the stereo is missing.

The file plays fine on a db50xg or an sp724 xg pci card.

The sw60xg is said to be basically a db50xg on an isa card but [unless there is some subtle fault with my card] it's looking like there are differences.

Edit: seems like it's the card, I tried another and it sounds fine. Running the midi on my sp724, if I deselect "variations" on the ds-xg control panel then I get the same kind of sound as the faulty sw60xg. Sending the xg reset to it doesn't seem to fix it. :depressed:
Last edited by ratfink on 2011-3-10 @ 12:27, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby TheMAN » 2011-3-09 @ 20:08

rfnagel wrote:
TheMAN wrote:funny how there's PIF file that doesn't belong there ;)


Heh, prolly where he (or someone else) ran the DOS installer within WinDoZe <grin>.


somebody forgot to write protect the disk ;)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-10 @ 12:47

ratfink wrote:Edit: seems like it's the card, I tried another and it sounds fine. Running the midi on my sp724, if I deselect "variations" on the ds-xg control panel then I get the same kind of sound as the faulty sw60xg.


That sounds like that the effects processor(s) on the card is acting up. The "variation" effects are exactly what I used to get those nice overdriven and distortion guitar sounds (the "Tube Amp" variation effects). You'll prolly find that the ZIP I uploaded; the GM version prolly sounds just like the XG-ed version on the faulty card (as the GM version doesn't included any of the variation effects).

Anyhow, yeah, unfortunately I think that the effects processors are defective on that card :(


TheMAN wrote:somebody forgot to write protect the disk ;)


That is a habit that I've always followed for literally decades... I always write protect my floppies, unless I actually plan on writing to them :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby ratfink » 2011-3-10 @ 12:58

rfnagel wrote:That sounds like that the effects processor(s) on the card is acting up. The "variation" effects are exactly what I used to get those nice overdriven and distortion guitar sounds (the "Tube Amp" variation effects). You'll prolly find that the ZIP I uploaded; the GM version prolly sounds just like the XG-ed version on the faulty card (as the GM version doesn't included any of the variation effects).

Anyhow, yeah, unfortunately I think that the effects processors are defective on that card :(


Ah well at least there's a logical explanation, bit annoying as this was the one I bought for a spare but never mind :lol:. At least I can use it as a GM card, which is good enough where it was being used.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-10 @ 13:23

I was just thinking of something:

I'm sure that y'all are more knowledgeable with the XG compatable hardware than I. Is/was there ever a PCI version of the SW60XG? In other words, a Yamaha (or compatable) PCI standalone sound card that had the same capabilites as, say the DB50XG/MU50/etc... (with the same XG effects processors, as well as the 4MB sample ROM)?
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby ratfink » 2011-3-10 @ 13:34

There is the SW1000XG, a pci xg midi card.

Also I think I found the problem with the sw60xg. There's a piece of software - a control panel I suppose - that gets installed dcalled EffectsGearII. From there you can select effects and under "other" is "XG Playback". If I select that - duh - the xg midi's sound like they should. There's a slight delay at the start as the XG effects seem to get implemented when you play the midi, so there's a few notes non-XG and then the XG effects cut in. So it's a bit weird still, but both cards are acting the same now so there's some consistency at least :lol:.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-10 @ 14:52

ratfink wrote:There is the SW1000XG, a pci xg midi card.


Thanks for the info :)


ratfink wrote:Also I think I found the problem with the sw60xg. There's a piece of software - a control panel I suppose - that gets installed dcalled EffectsGearII. From there you can select effects and under "other" is "XG Playback". If I select that - duh - the xg midi's sound like they should.

but both cards are acting the same now so there's some consistency at least :lol:.


Glad you got it working :)


ratfink wrote:There's a slight delay at the start as the XG effects seem to get implemented when you play the midi, so there's a few notes non-XG and then the XG effects cut in. So it's a bit weird still


You know something, previously I had mentioned that I "thought" I was authoring the MIDIs to XG guidelines, but one thing that I've never edited/done: Most XG compatable MIDI files that I've ran across have some intentional delay in them (about a second or) before the actual music starts.

During this 1 second or so period is when the XG parameters for the various effects are set up and transmitted to the hardware... I've never edited/created the XG MIDI files like that, but rather made a single bulk sysex dump at the very beginning of the MIDI files (containing all of the various effects and processor parameters) to set up the XG parameters.

That's prolly why it sounds like that... standard (or normal) for the first few notes, and then like it should for the rest of the MIDI file. IIRC, I seem to remember reading about some sort of delay guideline that should be followed when the initial setup sysex dumps are sent to the hardware (to overcome/prevent that problem), but I really don't remember.

Anyhow, you can see what I'm refering to with all of the "official" Yamaha XG MIDI ZIPs that I previously linked to. As an example, if you load the previously mentioned "D_RP_02X.MID" into a decent MIDI sequencer, you can see that the sysex dumps are sent separately; one at a time; during the first second or so of playback before the music actually starts.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-11 @ 19:08

P.S. Just uploaded some more of the "official" Yamaha XG tunes -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... lume_2.zip (included on the SW60XG CD)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-14 @ 05:38

I just uploaded this smallish pack of XG songs -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... _Songs.zip .

Most of the MIDI files in the pack are already included in some of the other XG MIDI packs that I've previously uploaded, but there are a few new ones in this pack that sound rather nice ("A Dream Of A Dream.mid", "XGWorks.mid", and "XGWorksV2.mid") :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-15 @ 06:45

Been "Rockin' in the Backwoods" again!

I extracted the title theme music "Grabbag" (by Lee Jackson) from Duke Nukem 3D, and then converted and optimized the MIDI file for Yamaha XG format. I then recorded it to an MP3, and uploaded it here: http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Grabbag_XG.mp3 .

Listen to the song and watch a YouTube video version here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwsmnS-waCU .

That is how "Grabbag" SHOULD/COULD sound on all Yamaha XG compatable hardware (e.g. DB50XG, MU50, S-YXG50) :)

By the way, this is how the same song sounds *without* the Yamaha XG conversion and optimization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzU1EH3u0X0 .

If you have any Yamaha XG compatable MIDI hardware (or even simply the Yamaha S-YXG50 software synthesizer), here's the MIDI file: http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Grabbag_XG.mid .
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-15 @ 22:20

(re: "Yamaha_XGWorks_Songs.zip")

P.S. After spending a bit of time with the songs, I've found that "A Dream Of A Dream.mid" is *especially* nice :)

Note that this song (as well as "XGWorks.mid" and "XGWorksV2.mid") were *not* included with any other "official" Yamaha XG music packs.

BTW, "XGWorks.mid" has an **extremely** cool hard rock guitar solo at around 3:00 minutes into the song... really shows off the power of the XG effects processors :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby Miki Maus » 2011-3-16 @ 06:35

rfnagel wrote:Been "Rockin' in the Backwoods" again!

I extracted the title theme music "Grabbag" (by Lee Jackson) from Duke Nukem 3D, and then converted and optimized the MIDI file for Yamaha XG format. I then recorded it to an MP3, and uploaded it here: http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Grabbag_XG.mp3 .

Sounds great!

You should try to do the same with "Goin' Down The Fast Way" (FASTWAY.MID) from Rise of the Triad also by Lee Jackson.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-16 @ 16:18

Miki Maus wrote:Sounds great!


Glad you liked 'em :)


Miki Maus wrote:You should try to do the same with "Goin' Down The Fast Way" (FASTWAY.MID) from Rise of the Triad also by Lee Jackson.


Thanks for the suggestion! Hehe, actually I've been trying to think of a few more of the "rockier" game tracks to XG-ify, but was coming up dry. Thanks for the idea :)

I was recently messing around with the music (by Robert Prince) from "Xenophage", but it's a little too heavy-metal for my tastes <grin>.


(edit) Actually, I should prolly get off of my butt and compose a few new ones of my own (re: DOOMin Live/Black and White/etc...), or "XG-ify" a few of my existing pieces <grin> :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-18 @ 04:19

One last Yamaha "XG-ified" tune... "Goss Groove" (music track 15, by John Broomhall) from Chris Sawyer's PC game "Transport Tycoon", converted and optimized for Yamaha XG format -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... ove_XG.mp3 :)

Lame YouTube video here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsHdyN5lPJ0 <grin>.

If you have any Yamaha XG compatable hardware (or the S-YXG50 software synthesizer), here's the MIDI file -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... ove_XG.mid .

Lastly, more Transport Tycoon music goodness, some songs that I remixed/rearranged eons ago and recorded using my MIDI hardware here (essentially/basically, using portions of my custom Weeds General MIDI SoundFont v3.0) -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/ttmusic.htm :)

By the way, this will probably be the last third-party Yamaha XG MIDI music conversion that I'll release... it's time to compose some more new music of my own!
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby schlang » 2011-3-21 @ 03:17

that's a pity, my (also DOS) game midi archive is huge :p
PC#1: K6-III+ 400 | 512MB | Geforce4 | Voodoo1 | SB Live | AWE64 | GUS PNP Pro
PC#2: 486DX2-66 | 64MB | Riva128 | AWE64 | GUS PNP | PAS16
PC#3: 386DX-40 | 32MB | CL-GD5434 | SB Pro | GUS MAX | PAS16

Think you know your games music? Show us: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37532
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby SquallStrife » 2011-3-21 @ 03:53

Miki Maus wrote:You should try to do the same with "Goin' Down The Fast Way" (FASTWAY.MID) from Rise of the Triad also by Lee Jackson.


There's an XG-ified recording of that song on Youtube. It's pretty awesome TBH! :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-21 @ 09:55

schlang wrote:my (also DOS) game midi archive is huge :p


Same here... I've been collecting MIDIs (as well as being a MIDI musician in one form or another) since 1990 or so. Got cazillions of them <grin>... and LOTS of game rips :)


SquallStrife wrote:There's an XG-ified recording of that song on Youtube. It's pretty awesome TBH! :)


Linkage? I did a lot of searching, and quite a few recordings of the song, but couldn't find an XG version.

I was quite curious as to how it sounded... I was gonna try it my self after MM mentioned it, but I couldn't get the sound just "right" to fit my taste.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-21 @ 10:04

P.S. Almost forgot... that song in ROTT was also included with "Lame Duke" <grin> (exact same MIDI file, byte for byte).
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby DonutKing » 2011-3-21 @ 10:26

There's an XG-ified recording of that song on Youtube. It's pretty awesome TBH!


link please? can't find it :(

I love ROTT's music... Lee Jackson is seriously one of the best game music composers ever :)
He actually composed his music using a Gravis Ultrasound, unlike Bobby Prince who used a sound canvas.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby SquallStrife » 2011-3-21 @ 10:57

I wish I could find that link!!! I know for sure I've seen it on there. Honest!!

Let me pour over my history.... >_<
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