VOGONS


First post, by Ace

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This is something that's been bothering me about my OPTi 82C929A: ever since I got a SoundBlaster Pro 2.0(which I consider inferior to the 82C929A since with the 82C929A, you can add distortion to the FM Synthesis(OPTi's sound circuit on the YMF262 induces distortion if the sound output from the YMF262 is too loud) and the quality of the digital sound is MUCH better than the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0, which I think has the worst digital sound of all my sound cards), I've been questioning whether the Stereo of the 82C929A's YMF262 is reversed. I know the Collector's CD-ROM edition of X-Wing outputs reversed Stereo on the SoundBlaster part of the sound card, but I'm wondering if the Stereo of the YMF262 on the 82C929A is reversed or if the Stereo of the YMF262 on the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 is reversed. Which is correct?

I've attached a sound byte of my 82C929A playing X-Wing's introduction(with some distorted music because I like the FM Synthesis like that). Take a listen to where the high notes and bass notes are most noticeable. In this clip, I reversed the left and right audio outputs, so the high notes are most noticeable on the right and the bass notes most noticeable on the left. This is how it is on the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0. Is this correct or should the high notes be noticeable on the left and the bass notes more noticeable on the right?

And here's a video clip of my OPTi 82C929A playing X-Wing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F2uU3K0Ps0

It's a different sound byte, but you can tell the bass notes are most noticeable on the right and the high notes are most noticeable on the left.

Which is correct? The video or the sound byte?

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Reply 1 of 13, by Mau1wurf1977

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Last week someone mentioned that many Sound Blaster Pro clones have the Stereo channels swapped. Yesterday I discovered that my ESS AudioDrive 1868F has the same issue 😀

I used the setup menu from Descent. It tests the center, left and right digital channels and they where reversed.

The Sound Blaster Pro 2.0 would definitely be the "reference card" here.

The Star Wars track is not the easiest to use for Stereo separation 🤣. I can't help yo here...

The games I know and use to test Stereo setup all use General Midi or MT-32. Doom and Wing Commander. But none use Stereo OPL3 at all.

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Reply 2 of 13, by Ace

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If the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 would be the "reference card," then everything is reversed on my 82C929A.

The Collector's CD-ROM edition of X-Wing does use Stereo OPL3, but you have to listen VERY closely to hear it. If you do, you will notice the bass notes are louder in one audio channel and the high notes louder in the other.

Also, I don't know what happened, but today, I lost most of the distortion I like so much from my OPTi 82C929A's YMF262 and I can't get it back. This makes me wanna swap it out for my SoundBlaster Pro 2.0, but its sound output is considerably weaker without a mixer and the quality of the digital sound is rather lousy.

Creator of The Many Sounds of:, a collection of various DOS games played using different sound cards.

Reply 3 of 13, by Mau1wurf1977

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Ace wrote:

but its sound output is considerably weaker without a mixer

The Pro 2.0 does have a mixer chip. I tried it yesterday for my "noisy sound cards" recording 😀

Reply 4 of 13, by Ace

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I'm well aware of that. That's why I specified that the sound output from the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 is considerably weaker "without a mixer." And I meant a software mixer. I was always running my SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 without drivers, just a SET BLASTER line in Autoexec.bat, nothing else.

Last edited by Ace on 2010-11-29, 01:39. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 6 of 13, by Ace

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So is the Stereo on the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0's YMF262 reversed or correct? Does Doom use Stereo OPL3? I think that game will make reversed Stereo problems quite obvious. If the Stereo is correct on the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0's YMF262, then the Stereo on my OPTi 82C929A's YMF262 is reversed.

Reply 7 of 13, by Mau1wurf1977

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Yes the Pro 2.0 is correct...

The 2.0 I have is the last version the made. A OEM version. Would love to record something. I have dark forces, is the intro music the same? Or is there a X-Wing Demo I can use?

You can try the shareware verison of Descent: http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/descent/

The audio setup menu tests for left and right channel. It's fine on my 2.0 but reversed on my ESS AudioDrive.

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Reply 8 of 13, by Ace

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I'm not sure if there's a demo online for the Collector's CD-ROM edition of X-Wing. All I find is the full version of the floppy disk edition, which uses 100% Mono audio. Search around, you might be able to find something. But from what you're saying and judging by the sound on my OPTi 82C929A and SoundBlaster Pro 2.0, the Stereo on the 82C929A's YMF262 is truly reversed. *goes into his little corner trying to figure out how to reverse the Stereo without causing major damage to the sound card*

Creator of The Many Sounds of:, a collection of various DOS games played using different sound cards.

Reply 9 of 13, by Mau1wurf1977

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Once you established that both, voice and FM are reversed, all you need to do is either swap white with red if you use RCA leads. Not a big deal 😀

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Reply 10 of 13, by Ace

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Of course it's no big deal. Except I need a new graphics card for my newly-acquired Pentium 1 computer. It's got an S3 Trio 64 on it, which has no S-Video output, so I'd need another PCI graphics card with S-Video output. Maybe I'll put in my ATI 3D Rage II+DVD in the Pentium 1 computer and get an AGP graphics card for my IBM Personal Computer 300PL, which is where I currently have the 3D Rage II+DVD(due to the placement of the AGP slot, finding a good AGP graphics card that fits in the computer has proven to be very difficult, so I kept my 3D Rage II+DVD in there. Maybe if all else fails, I'll buy a VGA to TV converter and use the computer's built-in graphics card).

Creator of The Many Sounds of:, a collection of various DOS games played using different sound cards.

Reply 11 of 13, by Mau1wurf1977

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The VGA converter box is more convenient and will work with every machine that has VGA out. The S-Video out might give you better quality. At least on my Geforce MX 440 this is the case, but the difference is very subtle and most won't ever notice...

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Reply 12 of 13, by gerwin

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Last week someone mentioned that many Sound Blaster Pro clones have the Stereo channels swapped. Yesterday I discovered that my ESS AudioDrive 1868F has the same issue :-)

I hope you are not refering to my observations on midi daughterboards? which is also about reversed stereo, but not about digital or FM music.

Then there is also this issue with certain SB Pro's with reversed voice/digital sounds:
http://www.crossfire-designs.de/index.php?lan … icle=soundcards
Phonomenal! 1989,1991 - The first Sound Blasters

Yet I never heard of issues with the FM stereo, but well, it would not surprise me too much :lol:

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 13 of 13, by Mau1wurf1977

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Yea that was it!

I remembered that quote as soon as I noticed that in the Decent sound setup, my ESS AudioDrive has the channels swapped during the "testing digital sound" phase.

I wasn't aware that the FM portion isn't affected / assumed it was. I will test this soon but now it makes sense because I noticed that all the modern sound setup tools have an option to swap digital voice, but not FM.

However I know that the Sound Blaster Pro 2.0 doesn't have FM or Voice Stereo reversed and that's what Ace is comparing his card too. So it appears that his particular card has the Stereo reversed.

I will need to find a game / demo with a good FM stereo track for easy Stereo testing...

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