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The Ultimate 486 Benchmark Comparison

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Reply 140 of 221, by leileilol

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Tertz wrote:
matze79 wrote:

who wants dosbox on a 486er ?

Those who want XT era games linked to timer. Maybe 286 level is possible too. Those who want CGA composite, Tandy music, etc nontypical hardware. Those who have other compatibility issues wich DOSBox may possibly overcome. Those who want booter games and don't want to write floppies for them.
It's not even obligatory to setup Win9x to use DOSBox, as it works in HX DOS Extender. But in Win9x it may to work faster.

🙄 *facepalm*

DOSBox is barely even usable on a Pentium MMX for XT-era CGA games, and even then you still have to use a large frameskip, and that's not even accounting the cpu usage horror that is OPL2 emulation even when using passthrough, nevermind the not-as-optimized emulation for any other synthesizer sound device.

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Reply 141 of 221, by Tertz

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leileilol wrote:

DOSBox is barely even usable on a Pentium MMX for XT-era CGA games

My opinion is based on results of P200 in Quake run in DOSBox where they were close to 386DX 20 MHz. If you have other benchmark results for DOSBox on 486 and Pentium, maybe then will appear basis to think other. If you have 486 or Pentium to test DOSBox's speed, you may run Speed Test.

that's not even accounting the cpu usage horror that is OPL2 emulation

It's not issue for most XT games, at least, as they could use the speaker. Hence, not a problem for 486 wich is expected for XT emulation basically. I suppose >=486 66 MHz can do something useful in DOSBox.

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Reply 142 of 221, by matze79

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Dosbox struggles with 286/386 Software even on a Pentium III 500Mhz.
(depends on methods used.. some run well..)
Video Emulation via SDL Layer, Soundemulation etc...
Who needs this if i already have ISA Card inside ?
There is a Build of Dosbox with djgpp for DOS too. but its useless. or was it qemu?

Dosemu on Linux will reach almost native Speed on a 486.

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

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Reply 143 of 221, by Tertz

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matze79 wrote:

Dosbox struggles with 286/386 Software even on a Pentium III 500Mhz

I'm offering you take part in this DOSBox testing with your P3 500 MHz. And interesting what gives you Speed Test inside DOSBox.

Video Emulation via SDL Layer, Soundemulation etc...

According to results in Quake on P200 there should not be problems with 320x200 modes emulation for <=286 era games on it and on P3. Sound emulation like FM may take much resources - it may be turned off in games and the load regulated by settings. DAC I suppose is easier to emulate.
Maybe Quake is unique, that's why Speed Test results are interesting. Based on Quake P3 500 should emulate >386 40 MHz level and hence support good any <=1992 game and many of 1993-94, at least without FM. Maybe some play with DOSBox settings is needed, for example by default it sets 3000 cycles (286 13.5 MHz level) for real mode games.

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Reply 144 of 221, by 386SX

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I don't know if real or not, but with any even really powerful systems I always felt dosbox having that latency/lags that even a real 386 has not. Maybe is suggestion I don't know but perfect timing just like in console emulators it's difficult to emulate.

Reply 145 of 221, by Tertz

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386SX wrote:

with any even really powerful systems I always felt dosbox having that latency/lags

Settings affect on lags, concrete games may to have problems, your OS, drivers and their settings, processes in the background. Generally it runs games without significant lags on modern PCs.

that even a real 386 has not

If you'll tell cocrete 386 era game with lags on modern systems I'll check it.
If you use wireless keyboard/mouse, LCD, network card works - you may have lags wich were not in past. As DOSBox was made in XP times and later OS have less direct access to sound hardware, most people use cheap embeded sound chips - this may do lags too.

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Reply 146 of 221, by 386SX

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Tertz wrote:
Settings affect on lags, concrete games may to have problems, your OS, drivers and their settings, processes in the background. […]
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386SX wrote:

with any even really powerful systems I always felt dosbox having that latency/lags

Settings affect on lags, concrete games may to have problems, your OS, drivers and their settings, processes in the background. Generally it runs games without significant lags on modern PCs.

that even a real 386 has not

If you'll tell cocrete 386 era game with lags on modern systems I'll check it.
If you use wireless keyboard/mouse, LCD, network card works - you may have lags wich were not in past. As DOSBox was made in XP times and later OS have less direct access to sound hardware, most people use cheap embeded sound chips - this may do lags too.

As I said probably it's just a feeling, but as you said newer hardware having less and less direct hardware connection beetween complex os components, api, higher level programming etc.. plus usb input devices... it remembers me the just like it happens with console emulations where timings and general "accuracy" feeling is very difficult to have.

Reply 147 of 221, by Tertz

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386SX wrote:

newer hardware having less and less direct hardware connection beetween complex os components

DOSBox settings is the 1st thing to check. Then several other software and hardware things I've mentioned.
As for effect of indirect sound in post-XP OS and cheap sound chip you may check it by switching off sound in a game. Probably you have lags from other.

timings and general "accuracy" feeling is very difficult to have

There should not be lags about wich you've said. And I have no 'em in DOSBox, at least in 386 era action games I tried.

Last edited by Tertz on 2015-11-01, 16:15. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 148 of 221, by Trank

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So Tertz asked if i could test my P3-800 with dosbox. So i did, i used speedtst >ref.txt.

But im not sure exactly what you guys what to see from the test and what not.

But i tried out some games in dosbox. Quake was unplayable and doing anything in Windows with dosbox open was very slow. Aladdin ran good though.

Last edited by Trank on 2015-10-18, 04:37. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 150 of 221, by jakethompson1

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feipoa wrote:
Tetrium, nice find! […]
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Tetrium, nice find!

One model (ESA-TF486, MB103) has:
PS/2, 512 KB cache, 128 MB EDO RAM, 128 GB IDE harddrive support, Cyrix/AMD 5x86 support, IrDA, ALi chipset, AWARD BIOS, but only 1 PCI slot

While some (ESA-486AVR-128) take PC100 SDRAM, have onboard graphics, and a USB header. These can also take a mini-PCI card for SATA or gigabit ethernet. However this model uses a soldiered-in ZFx86 CPU with maximum 100 MHz.

Almost worth consideration if it wasn't over $300x10 and had 3 PCI, or PCI-E, ports. Actually, I'd even consider the ESA-MB103 model right now if the price was right (less than $50). I can get away the onboard IDE and an ISA NIC.

I'd be surprised if any of the late-model PCI-based 486's made it into mainstream industrial automation, let alone a PC Chips M919. It seems the main interest lies in ISA slots, where pre-PCI era 486 boards were loaded with ISA slots.

Anyone looked into these ESA boards further? I might take this on next, and haven't been able to reach the company to get current pricing and determine what else is bundled with the board. I believe they run approx. $300 from an old post here, so it doesn't make any sense financially vs. buying used, but hey, people drop that on a smartphone that becomes useless long before that board would. One of the downsides is that it looks like the single PCI slot is first by the keyboard connector, and would be inaccessible if this motherboard were mounted in a 7-slot ATX case. It supports the ATX power supply connector and power switch, making the lack of a need for conversion appealing. I don't believe an 8-slot ATX case would help, as I believe the eighth slot is added at the far end from the I/O shield (right?), and the few new AT cases available are overpriced huge towers if not yellowed.

Reply 151 of 221, by feipoa

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When I spoke with a man at the company who made these boards years ago he said they are no longer producing the boards which contain the ALi chipset. He said it was because he could no longer get new, old stock chipsets. Maybe he just got sick of hunting down the suppliers? I did not have any trouble finding UMC 8881/6 and SiS 496/7 chipsets.

I do see a few of these motherboards on eBay from time to time, but the prices are way too high.

It might be interesting to test out the ZFx86 board just to see how well this unique CPU performs.

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Reply 152 of 221, by Tertz

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matze79 wrote:

Dosbox struggles with 286/386 Software even on a Pentium III 500Mhz.

I've tested P3 500 with DOSBox 0.74 in Win98. With CRT in 640x400. Note: LCD have delays up to 40ms, wireless keyboard/mouse should to have higher delays.
DOSBox settings:
output=surface (or other, besides opengl wich is slow)
scaler=normal2x
core=dynamic
cputype=486_slow
cycles=N [use fixed cycles]
rate=22050
blocksize=256
oplemu=fast
oplrate=22050
pcrate=22050

Games tested: Test Drive 3, Keen 4, Silverball, X-Wing, Aladdin, Flashback, Alien Carnage, Doom

Results in cycles according to Speed Test:
clean speed = 12500
gaming with
- speaker = 11000
- DAC = 9000 (~386DX 33 MHz)
- FM = 4500 (~386SX 25 MHz)

These numbers depend on a game and game's scene. You may try higher cycles, but in some games this causes sound issues - clicks, slowing and other distortions. If you want smoother gameplay and don't care about sound - stand some sound distortion, set speaker, or switch off the sound (FM or all) in a game's settings or in DOSBox, or set volume to 0 in the emulator's mixer.

Resume
You may play inside DOSBox on P3 500 without significant issues almost any game released up to 1992 and many ones later. On P3 1000 you may multiple the emulation performance twice and get ~386 40 MHz with FM and ~486 50 MHz with DAC.
Data for other CPUs is there.

Last edited by Tertz on 2016-04-01, 12:57. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 153 of 221, by johnnynismo

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I have an AM 5x86-P75 AMD-X5-133ADZ on the way. I'm so excited! I went from a 486SX-25, to a DX40, to an unused Cyrix 486DX2-80. The craving for power never ceases on any of my systems.

Reply 154 of 221, by feipoa

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johnnynismo wrote:

The craving for power never ceases on any of my systems.

A common affliction!

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Reply 155 of 221, by colpoz

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Which is faster between an Intel 486 DX2 66 MHz (2x33) and an AMD X5 at 75MHz (3x25)?

RetroPc I: Asus P3V4X - PentiumIII 1000MHz - 256MB Ram - Geforce3 Ti 200 - SLI VoodooII 12MB - Aureal Vortex2 - HDD 80GB - Win98 SE
RetroPc II: Asus P5A - K6-2 333MHz - 64MB Ram - Geforce2 MX - Voodoo 4MB - Soundblaster AWE64 - HDD 13GB - Win95

Reply 156 of 221, by feipoa

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If the Intel DX2 is using write-back cache, I would guess the Intel DX2 is the faster configuration.

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Reply 157 of 221, by colpoz

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Now I'm using a DX2 66MHz write-through and it's perfect for playing some speed sensitive games like Theme Park or Warcraft II, and Wing Commander with the L1 cache disabled.

I'm considering to change the DX2 for an AMD X5 133MHz but I don't want to compromise these games, so I would to understand if I will can slow down the X5 at the same speed of DX2 66, when necessary.

RetroPc I: Asus P3V4X - PentiumIII 1000MHz - 256MB Ram - Geforce3 Ti 200 - SLI VoodooII 12MB - Aureal Vortex2 - HDD 80GB - Win98 SE
RetroPc II: Asus P5A - K6-2 333MHz - 64MB Ram - Geforce2 MX - Voodoo 4MB - Soundblaster AWE64 - HDD 13GB - Win95

Reply 158 of 221, by feipoa

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You have a few options, however I do not know exactly what speed equivalent they are.

1) Turbo button
2) L2 disable
3) L1 disable

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Reply 159 of 221, by skv400

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feipoa wrote:
You have a few options, however I do not know exactly what speed equivalent they are. […]
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You have a few options, however I do not know exactly what speed equivalent they are.

1) Turbo button
2) L2 disable
3) L1 disable

i have a question.

i have cyrix 5x86-120gp. this genuine voltage is 3.6v

my Shuttle hot-433 can't use fsb 66. only use fsb 60. i don't know reason of this problem.

shuttle hot-433(maybe rev.3) can't use fsb 66? only use fsb 60?

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