Welcome aboard! We are talking for a win98/me system right?

I'd personally pick Rig #2 but with a voodoo 3 16mb and 256-384MB ram. It works pretty well with vesa dos games. Then you have good opengl and of course GLide which is a must for carmageddon series. I think a few others like omikron maybe glide supported. Duke3d works fine on this card as well.

The voodoo banshee lacks the 2nd texture memory unit and gets a bit of a performance hit on newer games. The Geforce2MX is fast and could use a glidewrapper. Matrox lacks in 3d performance even if later drivers were better.

You can always underclock the cpu by the FSB or even programs like moslo.

Since you're running Win98, I'd go for #2.

(Wow, that can be REALLY misinterpreted...) 😜

I'd go for #2, but remember - Voodoo Banshee is a primary video device. You can't have both S3 Trio and Voodoo Banshee

For a good retro rig, you'll want wide retro compatibility. In theory, a S3 Savage4 + Voodoo2 + PowerVR PCX2 combo could cover all the supported APIs in Unreal Engine games, plus you'd get the S3 2D compatibility with it for DOS games, and the Direct3D compatibility should be enough for the older titles, not to mention the S3TC for the slightly newer ones (Ultima IX comes to mind). You'd have to deal with crappy S3 drivers, though. inControl isnt actually in control.

For #2, try to avoid exceeding 512MB RAM. More RAM doesn't always equal faster by the way. A slow as a constipated crap Pentium II on 64MB RAM would still be as slow as a constipated crap with 512MB RAM.

Geforce sucks at retro. "The way it's meant to be played" is the reason why there's so many "how do game get work in XP" around. There's palette issues, votlage issues, and aggressive driver issues. Radeon has slightly better luck for its stablity. but they also fail for their lack of table fog and paletted textures (older 3d games), plus they also break Keen 4 like every new card.

Don't forget the Pentium IIIs can slow down to a reasonably near appropriate speed for Wing Commander.

You never mentioned sound card. The right sound card is a very important part of DOS game compatibility. You'll want an ISA slot on the motherboard.

Dual-booting W95 and W98 will be more trouble than what it's worth. Both want to be primary OS installs and don't like each other. Dual-booting W9X with NT is a more reasonable effort.

Hello everybody! And thanks for the fast responses, you'll be very useful to me!

I've read your answers carefully. And it seems like possibility #2 is shaping up litlle by little. Having understood that W98 and W95 on the same system could be dangerous for my nerves, I'd say that W98 seems to me more important in this moment. Dosbox actually works as a pleasure on my Vaio SB and these retro RIG would be very useful mainly for certain games that show weird issues.

I'm talking about Omikron, Dark Earth, Lucasarts 3d Engines and even more (I'm not home right now and can't check what the other games are).

Actually I'm starting to feel that #2 will be ok, minus a block or two of RAM and, in case, FSB underclocking. What doesn't satisfies me it's the Geforce MX 220. I'd feel more comfortable with an original Geforce 256, as I consider it more powerful... and after all was my good old video card 😀

leileilol suggestions are actually precious. The rig you described will be perfect for DOS retrocompatibility and even early Dx games. I'll keep it in mind these days before deciding what to do.

Just to know; what would be considered a Windows 95 good retro rig?

jackazz wrote:

I'd feel more comfortable with an original Geforce 256, as I consider it more powerful... and after all was my good old video card 😀

For a machine like this, "more powerful" would be a waste when you've got a CPU bottleneck. The old games you mentioned won't even take advantage of the T&L features the Geforce provides.

Yeah if you want to play mostly 3D games from 2000 and older, a Voodoo is the way to go. I'd consider investing in a Voodoo 5. Adding FSAA to old Glide games is really wonderful.

The fact of the matter is that most of those games are designed around Glide or 3dfx's D3D driver first. Unless it's a Quake-based game.

I'd go with something like this

-Pentium 3 of some sort
-440BX mobo w/ ISA
-Voodoo3/4/5 main video
-Voodoo1 for really old DOS Glide games if they matter to you
-Sound Blaster Live or Vortex 2 audio
-AWE32/64 for DOS games (or SB16)

I should recommend none of those sugested systems, because they all are very fast for the stuff you want to use for..
so i should recommend you the take an AMD K6 II or K6 III processor..
Geforce 256 is also to fast.. Voodoo 3 / voodoo 4 Diamond viper / stealth is the way to go.. (or with 2 voodoo 2s in SLI)

And why should you use dual boot Win95/win98..
They are practiculair the same basics, only win98 is more Enchanced..

Robin4 wrote:

so i should recommend you the take an AMD K6 II or K6 III processor..

Going for those is kind of stepping backwards for Pentium III plus there's the issues with all those wacky Super Socket 7 boards out there. From the looks of the thread it seems he's picking a system rather than building one

lo

i like to refer to this page which is interesting
if you are considering using a relatively
modern video card with a more ancient
CPU.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/retro/retro2003-2.html

all those tests use cards available up to 2003
with a pII 350.

bye

It agree that it's a fun read but it's not really representative of how old hardware works better with pre 2000 games. For example, you don't get to see how all Radeon cards will fail to render the table fog of Shadows of the Empire. 😉

swaaye wrote:

For example, you don't get to see how all Radeon cards will fail to render the table fog of Shadows of the Empire. 😉

Star Wars Episode 1 Racer also has the same failure, which isnt surprising since it's an evolution of the same engine used.

@ leileilol or anyone really.

Does the Savage 4 require the Voodoo1/2 Win9x S3 Compatibility Fix?! It isn't listed but want to make sure if it would conflict with V1/2? Just something to watch out for if it has issues.

I'm not sure about DOS gaming as that era is a out of my interests, but for DX6/7 gaming you'll want as much CPU power as you can get your hands on. A lot of games from 98-01 have FAR higher cpu requirements than what's recommended if you want butter smooth gameplay with maxed out graphics.

A Voodoo3 or V2 SLI would be the best for compatibility, but the Geforce 256 beats both for later games (98-01) in terms of visual quality and speed. Plus it seems to require less cpu power than the V3.

I am a Matrox lower myself and the G400 has superb 2d output. Speed wise it's around what a V3 is, but with 32 bit output... both are much slower than a Geforce 256 which was the fastest card from 1999.

I personally haven't run into any issues playing games from the era I like on it (98-01) like SW: Pod Racer, Kingpin, Quake 2 etc., but I don't know about older games or DOS gaming.

Windows 98SE doesn't seem to require more than 128mb of ram to run smoothly, maybe 256mb if you want to use an interent capable machine running a modern browser. More than that's a waste, and above 512mb you might run into some problems.

Also, I think you mean 866mhz? There was no Coppermine 833mhz.

Edit: I think for a perfect Win95 machine you'd want something much lower powered- like a P MMX or K6 or similar.

jackazz wrote:

#1 Pentium III 500 MHz 64mb RAM 6gb Hard Drive S3 Trio (or Savage) 3DFX Voodoo Banshee CD-ROM drive […]
Show full quote

#1
Pentium III 500 MHz
64mb RAM
6gb Hard Drive
S3 Trio (or Savage)
3DFX Voodoo Banshee
CD-ROM drive

#2
Pentium III 833 MHz
640mb RAM (256+256+128) ...might remove 1 or 2 blocks if too fast
40gb Hard Drive
Geforce MX 220
CD-ROM drive

#3
Pentium III 500 MHz
160mb RAM
15gb Hard Drive
Matrox Millennium G400 Dual Head
CD-ROM drive

Which motherboards do these rigs contain? 😉

And I agree with the rest, #2 is the best choice of the 3.

The GF2MX should be fine though. You could consider adding V2 SLI? Or you could replace the GF2MX with a V3 (V4 and V5 tend to be quite costly, but this depends on your budget of course 😉. V3 is a good choice when it comes to 3DFX price/performance 😉 ) and indeed, if you're gonna be using 9x, then 256MB is all you'll ever need 😉

For Windows based games on a P3, the faster = the better

Im response to leileilol, yes I'm definitely going to pick up a system rather than equip my personal rig. That's a pity, I regret having thrashed most of my retro hardware when I was younger. I think i'm trying to recreate my old geforce 700mhz PC.

I checked out the Voodoo 5500. It would be awesome; but I think I'm going to delay buying it mostly for the price and availability. It's hard to find. I'll start with MX and then change it after.

Other problematic directx games came to my mind: Powerslide, Star Trek Deep Space 9: The Fallen, Wing Commander IV (even the DVD version crashes and has weird colors), Trickstyle and many more. Also No Respect, previous Appeal game before Outcast is quite unplayable.

EDIT: Midtown Madness 1 and 2, also. As I remember those two games demanded high system requirements. Will #2 be capable of running these?

sgt76 wrote:

I am a Matrox lower myself and the G400 has superb 2d output. Speed wise it's around what a V3 is, but with 32 bit output... both are much slower than a Geforce 256 which was the fastest card from 1999.

I personally haven't run into any issues playing games from the era I like on it (98-01) like SW: Pod Racer, Kingpin, Quake 2 etc., but I don't know about older games or DOS gaming.

Thanks for your help, I think you know well DX6/7 gaming era. I haven't understand one thing: when you say you didn't have any issue, you're referring to the Geforce 256 or the Matrox g400? And, if I can ask, what is you retro configuration?

EDIT: it seems that I found a voodoo 5 PCI at an affordable price. I consider changing the #2 MX 220 with this V5. How does that seem to you? Do I have to check smthg about voltage, slots, sockets or tech details on rig #2 before buying the 3dfx voodoo 5500? I never had one and would like not to have compatibility issues. Thanks!

jackazz wrote:

Thanks for your help, I think you know well DX6/7 gaming era. I haven't understand one thing: when you say you didn't have any issue, you're referring to the Geforce 256 or the Matrox g400? And, if I can ask, what is you retro configuration?

I was referring to the Matrox actually, but the GF256 also doesn't have any issues with games from that era.

I have a few machines but the one with the GF256 is a 600Mhz PIII Katmai/ Intel 440BX/ SB Live!/ 256mb ram/ Windows 98SE2ME machine. Very stable.

jackazz wrote:

EDIT: it seems that I found a voodoo 5 PCI at an affordable price. I consider changing the #2 MX 220 with this V5. How does that seem to you? Do I have to check smthg about voltage, slots, sockets or tech details on rig #2 before buying the 3dfx voodoo 5500? I never had one and would like not to have compatibility issues. Thanks!

That is the top retro card, can't go wrong with it. The AGP 2x version only works on AGP 2x boards, but since yours is a pci version, it should work just fine on a rig #2. Its a good idea to have a stout PSU (250w or more) though. And a case long enough to fit the card as it's very long. Also the V5500 can do with as much cpu power as you can throw at it P3 1ghz + or more). I used mine with a 2.8ghz P4 o'ced to 3.15ghz. Best o/s for it is 98SE. And best game (at least for me) is NFS5: Porsche Unleashed with AA! woohoo!:happyhappy:

jackazz wrote:

EDIT: Midtown Madness 1 and 2, also. As I remember those two games demanded high system requirements. Will #2 be capable of running these?

Very yes. Midtown Madness can even be played on a PCX2!

Thanks again for your help. Here's the last configuration I found! We'll call it...

#4
MB MSI MS-6566
PSU 400W (with selector between 230V and 115V)
Intel Pentium 4 2.40 GHz
Geforce MX 400 sdr 32mb
512mb RAM DDR (split in two 256 blocks)
40gb Hard Drive

Seems a bit too powerful for a windows 98SE configuration. What do you think about this?

Apart from that, I think I'll pick up #2 and change the geforce mx 200 with a 3dfx Voodoo 5550. Does the Geforce MX 200 suck at all?