PC compatibility cards

Discussion about old PC hardware.

Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby Jo22 » 2016-8-25 @ 19:03

dr.zeissler wrote:I used a joystick-midi cable and got the joystick (gravis gamepad) to work.
But softmpu does not work. I can't get a signal to the MT-32. I don't know why :(

Any idea for that ?


Hmm, don't know, but perhaps that special apple cable doesn't route the MIDI signals to the joystick connector ?
Just guessing.. But may I ask you if you did run the diagnose program from the SB16 driver package ?

It is able to test the MPU-401. If that doesn't work, you could also use Sound Blaster's native MIDI interface.
That older one is a bit limited, but has been always available since SB 1.x, because it is handled by the DSP.

I don't know for sure, but you could have a look at the SB 2.0 / SB Pro drivers for the older diagnose.exe.
They should also contain a Windows 3.1 driver for SB-MIDI, so you could play canyon.mid for testing purposes.

Oh, and there's also a patch out there for Sierra games to make SB-MIDI work in order to support users with a MT-32.
But that's maybe old news. I think I once read about that patch thing at QuestStudios (btw, what happened to them ?)

Edit: I've attached the diagnose program for SB Pro and SB16 for you. Hope it helps.
Attachments
diagnose.zip
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby Arctic » 2016-8-25 @ 19:59

I have seen IBM cards for Atari ST computers.
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-25 @ 21:15

Jo22 wrote:
dr.zeissler wrote:I used a joystick-midi cable and got the joystick (gravis gamepad) to work.
But softmpu does not work. I can't get a signal to the MT-32. I don't know why :(

Any idea for that ?


Hmm, don't know, but perhaps that special apple cable doesn't route the MIDI signals to the joystick connector ?
Just guessing.. But may I ask you if you did run the diagnose program from the SB16 driver package ?

It is able to test the MPU-401. If that doesn't work, you could also use Sound Blaster's native MIDI interface.
That older one is a bit limited, but has been always available since SB 1.x, because it is handled by the DSP.

I don't know for sure, but you could have a look at the SB 2.0 / SB Pro drivers for the older diagnose.exe.
They should also contain a Windows 3.1 driver for SB-MIDI, so you could play canyon.mid for testing purposes.

Oh, and there's also a patch out there for Sierra games to make SB-MIDI work in order to support users with a MT-32.
But that's maybe old news. I think I once read about that patch thing at QuestStudios (btw, what happened to them ?)

Edit: I've attached the diagnose program for SB Pro and SB16 for you. Hope it helps.


Yes, every thing is ok, but my MT32 does not get any signals from it.

The diagnose says that the mpu-interface is at 330. Softmpu says that it finds it at 330 DSP 4.13, but if I start
a Mt32 compatible Game like WC1, WC2, SkiOrDie, nothing happens. Gods for example hangs while probing roland.

I can route serial ports to the mac. Perhaps this could be a possible way. This should be the exact same way of using
the mt32 with mac software. Therefore I already have an Midi-Man and this works wonderfull with mac software.

I should try it, but the "easy way" through the joystick/midi would be much nicer... :(
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby Jo22 » 2016-8-26 @ 03:27

Hmm.. Is the MIDI cable correctly labeled ? My SB cable is mislabeled. I had to connect the "IN" plug to the "IN" connector on my MT-32.
Normally, someone should assume that an OUT plug and an IN connector are a patching pair.
Oh well. Sometimes I think manufacturers do have low expections of us.
Or perhaps they meant "to IN", but then why didn't they say so ?
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-26 @ 04:57

I used a working connection from the PC and put the cable on the 630Dos. It had to be working, but it does not. There must be something wrong with the implementation of the SB in the Performa-Dos-Card.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby appleiiguy » 2016-8-26 @ 13:52

You are forgetting about the PC Transporter card for the Apple //e and //GS.
The PC Transporter uses an NEC V30 and had a socket for an 8087 FPU it runs at 7.16 mhz and can be expanded to 768K of ram.
http://ae.applearchives.com/all_apple_i ... ansporter/
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-26 @ 15:11

WTF :) never heard about that thing...
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-26 @ 23:04

First I connected the serial cable to the mac-midi-man and installed the Midimanager and the Driver. MT-32 compatible Mac-Games do work!
I started the PC-Console and set the emulated COM1 Port to the Serial Port of the Mac. I did not change any cable.
Now the Mt32 does get signals from the dos-card over the seriel connection, but it sound strange and far away from what I expected :(

I must find another way ... :(
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby Jo22 » 2016-8-27 @ 03:12

dr.zeissler wrote:I used a working connection from the PC and put the cable on the 630Dos. It had to be working, but it does not. There must be something wrong with the implementation of the SB in the Performa-Dos-Card.

Oops. Didn't know that. I expected you to use a USB-MIDI cable, since MPU-401 style interfaces are nolonger supported since Vista.

dr.zeissler wrote:WTF :) never heard about that thing...

It's a cool thing. :cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFNbRQo8drA
dr.zeissler wrote:First I connected the serial cable to the mac-midi-man and installed the Midimanager and the Driver. MT-32 compatible Mac-Games do work!
I started the PC-Console and set the emulated COM1 Port to the Serial Port of the Mac. I did not change any cable.
Now the Mt32 does get signals from the dos-card over the seriel connection, but it sound strange and far away from what I expected :(

I must find another way ... :(

Is the sound garbled or too fast ? Perhaps the baudrate doesn't match. Use MODE to set it to something close.
Wait, here's a link about such things. http://www.cinetix.de/interface/tiptrix/midi2rs.htm

Arctic wrote:I have seen IBM cards for Atari ST computers.

Yay, PC-Ditto! As far as I remember, Ditto came in two flavors. As x86 card and as a pure software emulator. :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT_m0S7cqbI

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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-27 @ 09:18

PC-Card in the Atari is not so good...

Summery for better understanding:

1. PII-300 CT4170 -> Joystick to Midi-Cable -> softmpu 1.9 -> MT-32 *Working*
2. Apple Performa 630 Dos -> Mac OS 7.6.1 -> Midi-Manager, Mididriver -> Mac-Modem-Cable -> Mac-Midi Adapter -> MT-32 *Working for Macgames*

3. Apple Performa 630 Dos -> Booting into Dos -> Joystick to Midi-Cable on the SB-Output of the Vibra-Card -> softmpu 1.9 -> MT-32 *NOT Working*, no Signal on the MT-32 but SoftMPU reports no error :(
4. Apple Performa 630 Dos -> Configuring DosCard mapping COM1 to Apple Modemport -> Booting into Dos -> using the cable connection from "Nr. 2" -> Softmpu COM1-Out -> Signal to MT-32 but sound is heavily corrupted. :(

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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby Jo22 » 2016-8-27 @ 17:15

Hmm.. I wished I had a Performa 630 for testing, so we could solve that riddle together.
But for now, I can only guess what the culprit is. I suspect the cable.
Maybe it doesn't carry all wires and the pins for the MIDI port are not connected to anything.
To test this is pretty easy. Take a multimeter or an ohmmeter and have a look at the joystick end of that apple cable.
Look for pins 12 and 8, as shown in the diagram and connect one probe to one of them.
Now, use the other probe on the other end of that cable and check all pins for a contact.
Then repeat this for the other MIDI pin (and the ground pin if you like).
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-27 @ 17:48

No, I put the exact same working cable on the performa that I used on the pc seconds ago. it's defently NOT the cable.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby Jo22 » 2016-8-27 @ 20:03

Okay then. I don't have such a machine and the little information I've found about it indicated that
it came with a special cable which had both a video and joystick connector attached to it.
Perhaps I mixed it up with another model, the Macintosh 6100 DOS Compatible maybe ?

The DOS Cable mentioned above has a DB-15 male connector at one end. One wire comes off to
a DB-15 female end. The other wire comes off to a 26-pin connector in three rows. THAT connector
also has DB-15 female and an icon for a joystick. The Apple number on the cable is 590-2104.

Source: http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/m_nubus.html
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-28 @ 08:40

No, its not the same connection!

The 6100er Dos-Card use a cable with joystick out.
The 630Dos has a direct output on the Machine for the PC-Joystick. The PCI-PC-Cards have their Joystick-Port on the Card itself.

Doc

https://www.flickr.com/photos/computerm ... 737287950/
Last edited by dr.zeissler on 2016-8-28 @ 11:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby Jo22 » 2016-8-28 @ 10:54

I see, fascinating. Didn't knew it came with a remote control either.. 8-o
So if it isn't a mechanical issue, what else may it be then ?
The MPU401 seems responding, after all.

Edit: I don't have to tell you what you should do or not, but perhaps it' wouldn't hurt to run a diagnostics program (CheckIt!, NSSI, etc)
and double check the resources again. Perhaps diagnose.exe is only checking the port adresses, but not everything else.
Could be a resource problem somehow (the Vibra is a PnP chip, isn't it ?)
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-28 @ 11:53

I think I should make Fotos.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby Jo22 » 2016-8-28 @ 12:12

I'm looking forward to it! :-D
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-29 @ 12:13

I have given up the project due to the fact, that it does not work on apple-pc-pci cards either. I'll have to stick to the built in SB then. :(
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby Jo22 » 2016-8-29 @ 14:10

Are there no other Mac users you could ask for assistance ?
I'm sure they will be curious and eager to fix this issue. Provided that you do ask the right way, of course:
Never, ever call your Mac a PC. Never. Dont ask for help for the DOS card or DOS games!
Instead, tell them you have a rare Macintosh you want to make great again (which requires to fix that darn card).
Tell them that you need their help to make the Mac superiorer/better/smarter than any real 486 PC.
Oh, and don't forget to praise the MacOS (or System) every now and then. If this is going well, you can also make a bit fun of Windows.
Show them blue screens, error messages and so on. They'll like it. I promise. (But never show them an Amiga photo - they may cry then..)
When you're then a part of their herd, they'll will spend money and time to fix that Mac for you. ;-)

But seriously, whenever you ask them something on a Macintosh forum, focus on the Macintosh.
Don't tell them how cool the compatibility card is. They do know that themselfes, but they don't want to admit it. :neutral:
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Re: PC compatibility cards

Postby dr.zeissler » 2016-8-31 @ 15:24

CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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