VOGONS


First post, by Subjunctive

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I recently managed to integrate my DOS machine into my home network, with an Intel EtherExpress 16 NIC and Microsoft's old DOS networking client. Previously I was using floppies to shuttle files over to the computer, so I was relieved to have done this.

wp000300q.th.jpg

I also rediscovered something I knew once upon a time, which was that TCP/IP is unnecessary for MS filesharing; IPX/SPX or NetBEUI work just as well! I actually tried TCP/IP at first, but when I told the network client to add that protocol, it prompted me for an "OEM disk," which I thought was the EtherExpress driver disk, but apparently it wasn't. No matter, IPX/SPX (NWLink) was included with the client and it's perfectly adequate for my purpose, as long as I have a machine running WinXP or older somewhere on the network, since I guess IPX support doesn't exist in Vista or later.

I was curious to know what everyone else here used for networking their DOS machines.

Reply 2 of 20, by Harekiet

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Windows 3.11 with tcp/ip seems to work fine here, never bothered to get it working under dos itself. Windows 7 can find the machine easily enough and transfer files.

Reply 3 of 20, by megatron-uk

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Variously a 3c509b (in my 286), Realtek 8139c (in my 486) and Xircom PCMCIA (in my IBM P166 Thinkpad) along with mTCP - either using the ftp client to 'pull' things from other machines, or using the ftp server to 'push' from others.

All the ethernet packet drivers I'm using are unloadable, so you don't lose any memory when you simply want to transfer files - just load the packet driver, fire up the ftp client or server, then unload the packet driver when you've finished transferring files.

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Reply 4 of 20, by keropi

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mTCP all the way (thanks to megatron-uk that first wrote about it here! 😀 )
On my 5x86/133mhz mTCP is 3-4 times faster than wfw3.11 with tcp/ip-32bit.

As a sidenote the author of FlashFXP has tweaked it to fully work with mTCP 's ftpserver 😊

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Reply 5 of 20, by LowSpec486

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I have a DOS 3.5" 1.44MB floppy disk which loads the ethernet card driver, then a TCP/IP driver, and then the IBM client for NetBIOS over TCP/IP, so that I can map to a drive letter shared folders in other machines, mainly those other machines are Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Samba/Linux.

This way I can transfer files in/out of my DOS machines, but more importantly I can make GHOST raw-level backups of my Xenix tests and installations and dump them on a network file server, and also restore the Ghost back into the machine through the network when it is needed.

Reply 6 of 20, by jwt27

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I mainly use Microsoft's SMB network client through IPX, because it's simple and integrates nicely in the OS. Just map any drive letter to a shared folder on a windows system and you can use it in DOS as if it was a physical hard drive.
It's not very slow either. You can easily install a large game on your windows box, then play it over the network in DOS without anything slowing down. Of course, windows 2000 or mTCP's FTP client is still much faster and I'll use that if I have to copy several GBs within a few minutes.

Reply 7 of 20, by mbbrutman

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If all you need is a shared drive on the network MS LANMAN or perhaps the earlier Novell Netware client programs (with a dedicated server) is the way to go.

mTCP does not have a utility to provide a shared drive letter. But it can do file transfer as both an FTP client and server (noted above) and grab files directly from an HTTP server using htget. And then there are the other applications in it for setting the date/time from a network time server, a Telnet client, and IRCjr. I look at it more as a suite of programs to make the machine useful on a network, not just as a file transfer solution. (IRCing from original hardware is fun!)

(Fun tip: Using the included "netcat" program you can even print directly from your DOS machine over the network to a printer! I need to write that trick up ...)

Reply 8 of 20, by Subjunctive

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mTCP looks great - I'll try that out tonight. What I was doing before was enough for just pulling files from my XP machine, but MS's DOS network client doesn't let the DOS machine act as a server, which I'd like so I can backup some of its 17-year-old hard drive over the network. 😀 mTCP's FTP server component looks like a good solution to that. Plus it frees me from dependence on IPX/SPX, which I'd rather not have to try and get working on Vista/7 whenever I finally ditch the XP machine.

Reply 9 of 20, by PeterLI

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I use NetWare which works great on PCs with HDDs. Unfortunately my PS/2s with DS/DD FDDs and no HDDs can only load IPX and then use FastLynx. I cannot map drive letters because the NetWare client is too large for DS/DD diskettes. So right now I am stuck with FastLynx with a LapLink cable.

Any thoughts on how to drive map from a DS/DD diskette? Thanks. 😁

Reply 11 of 20, by gerwin

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Lately I swap hardware often, and the temporary Slot-1 and Socket-7 builds remain disconnected.
The Windows 98SE 'Winimized' install boots fast even on 100MHz, it can interface with USB mass storage.
Leaving the windows network and sound services disabled probably aids the quick startup.
Often the primary disk is a removable SD-card anyways.

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Reply 12 of 20, by PeterLI

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It is just fun to use a real network setup. I have a IBM PS/2 Model 30 8086 8530 with a NE1000 (OEM) and the same with an EtherLink II. It would be nice to use 10MPBS rather than the LapLink connection. 😊

Reply 14 of 20, by ltning

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LowSpec486 wrote on 2012-04-04, 20:51:

I have a DOS 3.5" 1.44MB floppy disk which loads the ethernet card driver, then a TCP/IP driver, and then the IBM client for NetBIOS over TCP/IP, so that I can map to a drive letter shared folders in other machines, mainly those other machines are Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Samba/Linux.

This way I can transfer files in/out of my DOS machines, but more importantly I can make GHOST raw-level backups of my Xenix tests and installations and dump them on a network file server, and also restore the Ghost back into the machine through the network when it is needed.

Hola! Reviving this thread..
Mind sharing the disk, or at least the config and where/how to get the software you're using for this? I'm a bit unsure about which software I need to assemble to get it to work - I do have the rough workings of ODI-backed mTCP but that's as far as I got. Right now I'm wondering if I should go the easy route and use a netbios-over-ip lan client or set up a Novell NetWare 3.x or 4.x server with IPX and TCP/IP :D

/Eirik

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Reply 15 of 20, by creepingnet

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With the thread revived, I might throw my setup here....

Typically I use mTCP, as the backbone with a Packet Driver. Typically I set it up like this...

First, almost all of my pure DOS machines and most of my Windows 3.x/9x machines have a multi-boot configuration, so I'm almost always using 6.22 or higher when it comes to MS-DOS. FreeDOS is another story. As of late I have experimented with loading/unloading networking entirely from Batch files for the individual network programs, but I find it slows down the process too much for my liking.

Next I put mTCP on there, I have a floppy with it on it and Just md c:\mtcp, and then copy the contents over including the samples subdir with xcopy. Then I edit the sample.cfg file in the c:\mtcp\samples folder, typically what I do there is change my ircjr handles, set the hostname of the computer, and tune a few other settings, mostly for FTP, then save as MTCP.CFG in c:\mtcp.

I point the MTCP.CFG file to c:\mtcp\samples\ftppass.txt for the FTP Server, this is VITAL. The #1 thing I use this for is moving files to my old machines over FTP when needed. I just set it up to allow my login and have no actual assigned data folders or anything since I prefer just to copy things over as ZIP files and unzip the entire directory structure on the computer when done.

After all that is setup, I set my config.sys and autoexec.bat under the NET configuration to load the packet driver to 0x60, run DHCP.EXE in c:\mtcp, and sometimes, particularly on 8088's like my Tandy 1000 that don't have an RTC, pull the current date and time from a time server.

Once all that is done, FTPSrv is installed, and Links Browser, and maybe FLMail are xferred over to the computer. Then they are unzipped, run, and configured.

My typical use case is this....

FTPSRV - xfer files I already have saved on my linux computers
LINKS/ARACHNE - Download files from websites on the internet that I don't have
FLMAIL - Periodically e-mail for giggles, I almost wish I could see their face that this mail was sent from a 486
IRCJR - used for Inernet Relay Chat, usually the VCFED chat
TELNET - I use this to hit up BBSes periodically, especially fun on the old Tandy (CGA makes ASCII art look amazing)

And of course, security is built in in that I only have networking enabled when I need it and it's off when I don't. Plus the services are only enabled when it's working. To me, it seems to be the most secure way to connect these old machines to the internet. And Links, being able to run TLS 1.2 out of the box and surf modern sites, is great. Only downside is Links needs a 386+ to run. Arachne is for my 286, and I might be trying it on my Tandy 1000 before too long.

Prior to this I was using Microsoft Network Client or Network Manager but I really hated how flaky it was and how much memory it used. mTCP has really changed things for me on this end. In some ways it makes DOS more modern than Windows 3.11 for Workgroups with NDIS drivers happens to be.

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Reply 16 of 20, by debs3759

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ltning wrote on 2022-01-06, 18:25:
Hola! Reviving this thread.. Mind sharing the disk, or at least the config and where/how to get the software you're using for th […]
Show full quote
LowSpec486 wrote on 2012-04-04, 20:51:

I have a DOS 3.5" 1.44MB floppy disk which loads the ethernet card driver, then a TCP/IP driver, and then the IBM client for NetBIOS over TCP/IP, so that I can map to a drive letter shared folders in other machines, mainly those other machines are Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Samba/Linux.

This way I can transfer files in/out of my DOS machines, but more importantly I can make GHOST raw-level backups of my Xenix tests and installations and dump them on a network file server, and also restore the Ghost back into the machine through the network when it is needed.

Hola! Reviving this thread..
Mind sharing the disk, or at least the config and where/how to get the software you're using for this? I'm a bit unsure about which software I need to assemble to get it to work - I do have the rough workings of ODI-backed mTCP but that's as far as I got. Right now I'm wondering if I should go the easy route and use a netbios-over-ip lan client or set up a Novell NetWare 3.x or 4.x server with IPX and TCP/IP 😁

/Eirik

LowSpec486 was last seen 10 ears ago, so is unlikely to reply. Maybe someone else can help though. I'd be interested in the relevant files (although I doubt I'l need the same card drivers) and config files. Haven't read the whole thread yet...

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Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.

Reply 17 of 20, by Pierre32

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ltning wrote on 2022-01-06, 18:25:

Hola! Reviving this thread..
Mind sharing the disk, or at least the config and where/how to get the software you're using for this? I'm a bit unsure about which software I need to assemble to get it to work - I do have the rough workings of ODI-backed mTCP but that's as far as I got. Right now I'm wondering if I should go the easy route and use a netbios-over-ip lan client or set up a Novell NetWare 3.x or 4.x server with IPX and TCP/IP 😁

/Eirik

If you're looking to map a network drive within DOS, take a look at EtherDFS:
http://etherdfs.sourceforge.net/
EtherDFS - a network drive for DOS

Reply 18 of 20, by davidrg

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ltning wrote on 2022-01-06, 18:25:

Right now I'm wondering if I should go the easy route and use a netbios-over-ip lan client or set up a Novell NetWare 3.x or 4.x server with IPX and TCP/IP 😁

I took the NetWare path (4.11 virtualised under KVM) but mostly because I like it rather than it being particularly practical. There are no NetWare clients for Linux or Windows Vista/7/8/10/11 so I mostly use FTP or an NT4 VM for copying stuff on to the NetWare server from my Windows 10 PC (NetWare 4.11 has an FTP server on one of the CDs).

The main advantage of NetWare is that the 32bit DOS client (Client32) only uses 4KB of conventional memory (or none at all with EMM386 loaded). With it using so little RAM I don't bother with network boot disks, I just load the client from autoexec.bat and have it always available. The older clients (VLM and NETX) aren't as light-weight but they do work all the way down to DOS 3.2 on an 8086. The clients for OS/2, Classic MacOS and Windows 3.0-XP (excluding ME and NT 3.10) work pretty well too.

Client32 (and the VLM client IIRC) also includes a high quality TCP/IP stack which doesn't use any conventional memory. Sadly not a lot of software supports it though - Novell sold a bunch of utilities (ftp client, telnet, etc) as a product called LAN Workplace so I guess most companies just bought that rather than building/porting their own. More recently someone has built NTP and FTP clients plus a remote control server for the Novell TCP/IP stack which are handy.

Reply 19 of 20, by LowSpec486

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debs3759 wrote on 2022-01-06, 21:08:
ltning wrote on 2022-01-06, 18:25:
Hola! Reviving this thread.. Mind sharing the disk, or at least the config and where/how to get the software you're using for th […]
Show full quote
LowSpec486 wrote on 2012-04-04, 20:51:

I have a DOS 3.5" 1.44MB floppy disk which loads the ethernet card driver, then a TCP/IP driver, and then the IBM client for NetBIOS over TCP/IP, so that I can map to a drive letter shared folders in other machines, mainly those other machines are Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Samba/Linux.

This way I can transfer files in/out of my DOS machines, but more importantly I can make GHOST raw-level backups of my Xenix tests and installations and dump them on a network file server, and also restore the Ghost back into the machine through the network when it is needed.

Hola! Reviving this thread..
Mind sharing the disk, or at least the config and where/how to get the software you're using for this? I'm a bit unsure about which software I need to assemble to get it to work - I do have the rough workings of ODI-backed mTCP but that's as far as I got. Right now I'm wondering if I should go the easy route and use a netbios-over-ip lan client or set up a Novell NetWare 3.x or 4.x server with IPX and TCP/IP 😁

/Eirik

LowSpec486 was last seen 10 ears ago, so is unlikely to reply. Maybe someone else can help though. I'd be interested in the relevant files (although I doubt I'l need the same card drivers) and config files. Haven't read the whole thread yet...

I'm back!

I do have the floppies. I'll search for them, make image files, and share them.