sunaiac wrote:

Not A DX4, The DX4 😉
@feipoa: When you did your ultimate socket 3 comparison, did you try fancy tings with this chip ? (2x50, 2x60, 2x66 ...)

What's so special about it?

Nothing much actually, it's just the fastest one (and a bit less common than the write through version)

Lost the IBM 5x86...
didn't want to put more than 10€.

sunaiac wrote:

Lost the IBM 5x86...
didn't want to put more than 10€.

One thing that I have learned is that later on a few extra bucks doesn't matter much when you still want but don't have only to end up paying much more later on.

sunaiac wrote:

@feipoa: When you did your ultimate socket 3 comparison, did you try fancy tings with this chip ? (2x50, 2x60, 2x66 ...)

Yes, the Intel DX4-100-WB works at 2x60. While I was able to run the complete set of tests on the Intel DX4-100-WB at 2x66, it did crash a few times and gets damn hot. I ran it at 3.7V - 4.0V. I think for one very demanding test, I had to first cool the chip in the fridge then set the cold winter breeze on it with fans from the window.

I only plan on including the results for the Intel DX4-133 on the Ultimate 686 Benchmark Comparison, in a sorta follow-up segment to swaaye's 133 MHz Challenge. This sub-section to the comparison will include,

Cyrix 5x86-133 (2x66)
Intel DX4-133 (2x66)
AMD X5-133 (4x33)
Cyrix 6x86-133
Cyrix 6x86MX-133
AMD K5-133
AMD K6-133
AMD K6-2-133 (if I can source an original Chomper which does not remap 2x to 6x)
AMD K6-2+-133
AMD K6-3-133
Intel Pentium 133
Intel Pentium 133 MMX
IDT Winchip C6 - 133
IDT WInchip2 - 133
Rise mP6 - 133

In response do using 4x16 MB for RAM on your HOT-433 v4, you will want to set the L2 cache to write-through mode such that all of your RAM is cached in Windows.

How much ram is cacheable in WB ?

sunaiac wrote:

How much ram is cacheable in WB ?

Direct-mapped SRAM --> Write-back cacheable --> Write-thru cacheable

64 KB --> 8 MB WB --> 16 MB WT
128 KB --> 16 MB WB --> 32 MB WT
256 KB --> 32 MB WB --> 64 MB WT
512 KB --> 64 MB WB --> 128 MB WT
1024 KB --> 128 MB WB --> 256 MB WT

So I can cache my 64MB then, I (think I) have 512k cache.
If I have four modules ending with something like 512-15ns (I don't have the MB under my eyes), that should be 512k ?
I really need to find a Case and PSU ...

nforce4max wrote:

sunaiac wrote:

Lost the IBM 5x86...
didn't want to put more than 10€.

One thing that I have learned is that later on a few extra bucks doesn't matter much when you still want but don't have only to end up paying much more later on.

Yes I know, but I don't really want a 5x86, it's just feipoa's tests which made my want to try.
The CPU I actually want is the WB DX4. Not the best Socket 3 CPU, not even better than say a AMD DX5@ 160, but well ...

feipoa wrote:

Yes, the Intel DX4-100-WB works at 2x60. While I was able to run the complete set of tests on the Intel DX4-100-WB at 2x66, it did crash a few times and gets damn hot. I ran it at 3.7V - 4.0V. I think for one very demanding test, I had to first cool the chip in the fridge then set the cold winter breeze on it with fans from the window.

Coming back on this.

The Intel 486/100 is 1.6M transistors, 0.6 micron process, power rating 5.xx watts.
The last Intel Pentium in 0.6 microns is 3.2M trans, power rating 11.XX watts 120MHz.
The Intel 133MHz Pentium is 0.35 microns.
All those CPUs have the old school die orientation (die is between the MB and the top of the CPU package), and run at 3.3v.

Even with the process improvement between 486/100 and P133, this should leave enough margin to get the DX4 run at 133 with a cooling equivalent to a Pentium 133, but it seems it doesn't according to your tests.

I wonder what kind of cooling would allow it 24/7 ...
I guess since the die is on the opposite side, putting a giant Noctua modern copper cooler would be pretty useless.
I wonder if it's possible to bring a light air flow under the socket ...

You have 256 KB, single-banked L2 cache, which is soldered in. Be sure to set your cache to write-through mode to cache all 64 MB.

I tried three different Intel DX4-100-WB for 133 MHz. They all were pretty similar. I tried a range of voltages between 3.3 and 4.0 V, with 0.1 V steps. I was only using a 486 fan/heatsink though. You'll definately want more cooling than I had, but if I were you, I'd be content with running it at 60x2 and 3.45 - 3.60 V.

How do you know that 😳 ?

sunaiac wrote:

How do you know that :shocked: ?

How do I know what? If you are refering to the cache, you are the one who just told me!

I have four modules ending with something like 512-15ns

If you have 8 of those, then you have 512 KB of L2 cache. You have 4.

/me going to check the motherboard ...
There are four UM61512AK-15 modules, one UM61256FK-15 module.
No room for eight modules, so I guess no cache extension on rev 4.0 HOT433 ?
My chipsets are UMC8886BF & 8881F

Please take a look at this thread, Did anyone see this on eBay? , and let me know if you have any questions. Photos are at the bottom of page 1.

I'll never be able to do that 🙁

(sorry I was a bit slow yesterday, of course 4x512 kiloBIT is a total of 256 kiloBYTES ^^

The one thing I don't like about the Intel DX4 &EW is that there is no way to disabled the writeback cache. I had one for years but never got to use it since I didn't have any boards that supported writeback L1.

sunaiac wrote:

Coming back on this. […]
Show full quote

feipoa wrote:

Yes, the Intel DX4-100-WB works at 2x60. While I was able to run the complete set of tests on the Intel DX4-100-WB at 2x66, it did crash a few times and gets damn hot. I ran it at 3.7V - 4.0V. I think for one very demanding test, I had to first cool the chip in the fridge then set the cold winter breeze on it with fans from the window.

Coming back on this.

The Intel 486/100 is 1.6M transistors, 0.6 micron process, power rating 5.xx watts.
The last Intel Pentium in 0.6 microns is 3.2M trans, power rating 11.XX watts 120MHz.
The Intel 133MHz Pentium is 0.35 microns.
All those CPUs have the old school die orientation (die is between the MB and the top of the CPU package), and run at 3.3v.

Even with the process improvement between 486/100 and P133, this should leave enough margin to get the DX4 run at 133 with a cooling equivalent to a Pentium 133, but it seems it doesn't according to your tests.

I wonder what kind of cooling would allow it 24/7 ...
I guess since the die is on the opposite side, putting a giant Noctua modern copper cooler would be pretty useless.
I wonder if it's possible to bring a light air flow under the socket ...

The problem is that the ceramic doesn't transfer heat quickly enough to keep the core stable at higher clocks. If it had a ihs that had direct contact with the core higher clocks shouldn't be a problem as I had learned with the p54c core that made into the same packaging as the p55c when intel was transitioning from the ceramic. Same core, the 166mhz p1 in the ceramic barely will manage a little over 200mhz while in the plastic pga with ihs can easily top 250mhz+.

Anyone knows this mother board ? : http://cgi.ebay.fr/486-Motherboard-486SLD-486 … =item20c82ce1d1

And this one : http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj48/minne … 86SLE-66-MB.jpg ?

Does any of those fullfill the wollowing requirements ? :
- support for at least 3.3 and 5v, but 3.45/3.6/3.7 would be nice addition
- Write Back support (for SK096 DX4 100 and POD83)
- 512k SRAM support for 64 MB cacheable memory in write back mode.
- at least 2 72 pin ram slots (at least 64MB ram supported)
- two or three VLB slots
- a flat battery OR a barrel one with external battery connector

thx for your time 😀

sunaiac wrote:

Anyone knows this mother board ? : http://cgi.ebay.fr/486-Motherboard-486SLD-486 … =item20c82ce1d1 […]
Show full quote

Anyone knows this mother board ? : http://cgi.ebay.fr/486-Motherboard-486SLD-486 … =item20c82ce1d1

And this one : http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj48/minne … 86SLE-66-MB.jpg ?

Does any of those fullfill the wollowing requirements ? :
- support for at least 3.3 and 5v, but 3.45/3.6/3.7 would be nice addition
- Write Back support (for SK096 DX4 100 and POD83)
- 512k SRAM support for 64 MB cacheable memory in write back mode.
- at least 2 72 pin ram slots (at least 64MB ram supported)
- two or three VLB slots
- a flat battery OR a barrel one with external battery connector

thx for your time 😀

Those mobos don't have PCI slots, so i'm guessing none of them will support 3.3V cpu's 😳 😵