VOGONS


First post, by carangil

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I have a super socket 7 board with 2 DIMM (PC100) slots and 2 SIMM slots. The board supports a maximum of 768MB of ram, in this config:

256MB DIMM x2
128MB EDO SIMM x2

I had 1 256MB DIMM in it, and I just added a second one this morning, because I recently decided to max-out this particular system. (Faster cpu is the next step.) So I have 512MB in super-socket-7, which is quite a bit. Adding SIMMS to make it 768 is quite temping, but I have 1 important question:

Are there any EDO SIMMs that can keep up with PC100 ram? I seem to think that if I add slower ram in one of the banks, the whole system will slow down to match the slowest memory. Is that even true?

Reply 1 of 7, by Alucard

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Even your board supports the mixing of RAM Types (I never heard of one) it will slow down to the speed of the slowest RAM Module you use. And the fastest EDO I know so far is rated 50ns, which is miles away from the slowest SDRAM (PC-66) with 12/15ns. And by the way you should keep the "cacheable area" in mind.

Reply 2 of 7, by Old Thrashbarg

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Are you sure your board allows simultaneous use of EDO and SDRAM? Normally it's an either-or thing.

I do vaguely remember a couple boards that had such a capability, but the reason I remember them is because of how absolutely, ungodly terrible they were. IIRC, combining the two types of memory didn't really make the memory performance any worse, because it was already so abysmally slow that it couldn't really get any worse. Which is kinda to be expected, considering the hacks that were required to make it work at all.

And why do you even think you need that much RAM in a Super7 system anyway? Trying to 'max out' the memory on that platform is usually not a good idea, due to the cache limits in most of those chipsets...

Reply 4 of 7, by Old Thrashbarg

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And the fastest EDO I know so far is rated 50ns, which is miles away from the slowest SDRAM (PC-66) with 12/15ns.

Actually, no it's not "miles away." Sure, SDRAM can run at faster speeds, whereas EDO topped out around 75-83mhz... and SDRAM brought a whole lot of technical changes in the way the memory bus works, which allows a lot more bandwidth. But as far as real-world performance, clock-for-clock, EDO actually isn't all that much slower than SDRAM. The difference is only about 5%. None of the platforms from that era really needed the additional bandwidth that SDRAM could provide.

See, the thing that most people don't understand, is that the speed ratings on EDO/FPM describe something entirely different than the ones on SDRAM... the two numbers are not in any way comparable.

The rating on SDRAM describes only the minimum clock cycle time. For example, PC100 SDRAM is rated 10ns or better. That 10ns rating is derived very simply: 100mhz means 100 million cycles per second... if you take the reciprocal of that, one cycle takes 100 millionth of a second, i.e., 10ns.

EDO/FPM, on the other hand, is rated by the minimum access time, in other words, how long it actually takes to look up any particular bit in memory and then feed it back to the data bus. That rating takes a whole lot more steps into account than just the clock cycle time (which by itself doesn't mean much, since most memory operations take more than one clock cycle). Incidentally, the actual total access time on SDRAM at 66mhz, is somewhere in the range of 50-60ns.

Reply 5 of 7, by sgt76

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First find out what motherboard you have and how much cacheable ram it supports. Then, don't exceed this limit- performance will drop. Just use whatever is the max supported cacheable ram, either EDO or SDram, don't combine them even if your motherboard allows you to. And then just run Win9x happily.

Reply 6 of 7, by carangil

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Thanks for your replies. The board I have is this one

http://www.msi.com/product/mb/MS-5184.html

The manual specifically says it supports mixing SIMM and DIMM. But if it will just slow things down, then I won't. 768 is probably overkill anyway. 512 is almost overkill, for win9x it definitely is. I recently put an old version of lubuntu on this thing, and the extra ram seems to help.

Does anyone know the cache limit for this board? This was something I never considered before. Back-in-the-day, this computer ran with just 64MB. I dropped a 256MB dimm in the other slot several years ago, and performance improved. I just replaced the 64mb dimm with another 256mb one today, and performance seems the same; better if you count less swap usage.

But now I read somewhere that there is a 128mb per dimm cache limit for mvp3 boards. Is this true for all? Have I been blowing the cache limit all these years? Will dropping in 2 128mb dimms and downgrading this board to 256mb make it extra fast?

One upgrade I was considering was getting a k6-3 (or k6-2+), which ebay has some pretty cheap. I know there's an on-chip cache there that should help a bit.

Reply 7 of 7, by RacoonRider

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Try googling:

"MVP3" cachable area

It seems like it's 128 MB, but I may be wrong.

btw, K6-II+ should have internal L2 cache, so forget about the limit if you get one