I don't have much knowledge on these devices beside from what I've read on Vogons and from my Midiman device. I've actually tried Wing Commander 1 on my MM-401 and it works without problems. There were another post here on Vogons not long ago with someone saying that the intelligent clones are all not 100% compatible in all games.

EDIT: Nvm last sentance, it was you who posted it. 🤣

Just for curiosity's sake, do you have an rev. 0 or 1 MT-32?

vetz wrote:

EDIT: Nvm last sentance, it was you who posted it. 🤣

🤣, yeah I'd decided just to let it go at that point but I just can't seem to do that with these retro hardware problems, they haunt me!

And it's a rev 0 MT-32.

Maybe the issue is confined to the rev. 0 MT-32s, perhaps the interface is too fast for the firmware, causing the crash.

Great Hierophant wrote:

Maybe the issue is confined to the rev. 0 MT-32s, perhaps the interface is too fast for the firmware, causing the crash.

Maybe so, and there's nothing I could do about that I suppose. Wing Commander does have speed issues as we know.

I've requested registration on the Quest Studio forums too - I notice you're already a member GH. Maybe it's more a question for those guys.

http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php? … msg2719#msg2719
(the chart is what im trying to post here, comparing the music quest card to voyetra card, to the cms card)

i pulled out an ad for an earlier MIDI interface known as the CMS-401
which was another clone by another company called Computer Music Supply
they made a number of different interfaces but this was their only mpu-401 compatible clone model
ad u can see the comparison chart from the ad.. it was claiming that it had these features
that the other cards did not have..im fairly certain the MQX-32M was a 2nd revision of the original MQX-32 (non-M)
and i believe it was this competition which drove them to add these extended features u have posted about
above in order to compete directly with Voyetra + CMS.

not sure if u understand what those features are for above but they definately are more to do with composing + playing music
MIDI Metronome - for syncing drum machines
Channel Remap - for changing on the fly what instruments are being triggered from an external sequencer
Channel Split - for layering more than one instrument/module patch to thicken up sounds, layering drums or synth sounds
Dropout Control - this has to do with syncing the sequencer to REEL TO REEL tape via SMPTE time code
(which is a set of clicks or beeps usually being fed from 1 track on the reel of tape out into the the appropriate RCA input jack on the backplate of the card)
this is how music was still being made untill hard disk recording hit the mainstream in around 1994/1995. the dropouts occurred when people were using crappy or old tapes http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/definition/dropout so this is just to adjust the built in feature to keep things in sync in case the smpte track screwd up momentarily so unless u were feeding a SMPTE track into the input on the back of the card this has nothing to do with the bug.

i just bought one of these cards its being mailed to me right now which is why im responding to this thread..
badmojo: did u try using the same default BaseAddress + IRQ as the MPU-401? that may be a requirement for
proper "mpu-401" mode use with wing commander?

i was just talking with keropi and he mentioned that this card is "Buggy with games" but i have to say thats an assumption
that logically stems from the fact that this card has extended ports (2 instead of 1) functionality + extended MIDI Channels (32 instead of 16)
over the PC MIDI card.. so of course the PC MIDI card "just works" and has "no issues"....

there must be a way for the mqx-32m to function properly.. the earlier comment about revision of the mt-32 has no relevance to this.. as the midi data only flows in one direction. out of the card and into the mt-32 there is no data returned from the mt-32 unless u hooked up 2 midi cables? and even then that wouldnt cause the game to freeze.

there are applications to visually record the midi output from the card.
im curious to try to discover the real cause of the bug..
im also curious if anyone has ever seen one of these CMS-401 because i cant find anything on these cards except archived in magazines

i saw some notes about the version of the chip/rom on the card having an impact? was that related 100% to the bug discussed here?
can anyone remind me as to the dtails of that?

anyways ill soon have my mqx-32m so ill be able to do some testing once it gets here.

chrisNova777 wrote:

http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php? … msg2719#msg2719
(the chart is what im trying to post here, comparing the music quest card to voyetra card, to the cms card)

im also curious if anyone has ever seen one of these CMS-401 because i cant find anything on these cards except archived in magazines

Good news everyone, I just snagged this one:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/231814784741
NOS, still wrapped in plastic.

And apart from that oldschoolaw page you linked to, all I had was the promise that it's Roland compatible, here:
http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.de/2010/03/tu … land-mt-32.html

I could post some pictures or answer questions, but tbh, I'm really new to the whole MIDI stuff.
-

To use a metronome signal on a MIDI cable, they would have to use a no connect DIN. I don't see any of the PC sound modules supporting a MIDI sync connector, so I am confused. https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/midi … l-specification

There were early drum machines with such a connector.

TR-808, Sync, 1981
TR-606, Sync, 1982
TR-909, MIDI+Sync, 1984
TR-505, MIDI, 1985
TR-707, MIDI+Sync, 1985
TR-727, MIDI+Sync, 1985
TR-626, MIDI, 1987

dnewhous wrote:

To use a metronome signal on a MIDI cable, they would have to use a no connect DIN. I don't see any of the PC sound modules sup […]
Show full quote

To use a metronome signal on a MIDI cable, they would have to use a no connect DIN. I don't see any of the PC sound modules supporting a MIDI sync connector, so I am confused. https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/midi … l-specification

There were early drum machines with such a connector.

TR-808, Sync, 1981
TR-606, Sync, 1982
TR-909, MIDI+Sync, 1984
TR-505, MIDI, 1985
TR-707, MIDI+Sync, 1985
TR-727, MIDI+Sync, 1985
TR-626, MIDI, 1987

The sync feature predates MIDI. What you're looking for is MIDI clock, probably.

dnewhous wrote:

To use a metronome signal on a MIDI cable, they would have to use a no connect DIN. I don't see any of the PC sound modules supporting a MIDI sync connector, so I am confused.

What is it that you think a "PC sound module" should be doing with either DIN sync signals or MIDI clock messages? These signals/messages are used to synchronize disparate playback tempo clocks. The Roland MT-32, for example, has no such playback clock or prerequisites - no internal sequencer, no drum machine, no tempo-driven beats or effects - it neither uses nor requires the synchronization that DIN sync and MIDI clock provide, and lacks the physical interface to support the former besides.

Can confirm the problem with Wing Commander and the MusicQuest MQX-32M. Computer hard hangs when playing the intro music with my MT-32.

cuttoon; is there any chance you can post some high quality images of the CMS 401 interface?
theres a serious lack of info on that interface online

chrisNova777 wrote:

cuttoon; is there any chance you can post some high quality images of the CMS 401 interface?
theres a serious lack of info on that interface online

The only pictures I've found make me think it uses licensed Roland chipset. Better images would reveal it.

So sorry I forgot about all this.

Still have the CMS-401 II.

Still someone listening in here?

Photos of card and box. In what I'd consider "high res" for internet standards.

(Not sure what this forum supports as attachments, don't like upload portals for linking too much, but recommendations welcome.)

4th Chip didn't quite make it in the picture, it reads
RCA X
CDM6116 AE2
441

Card came bundles with cakewalk 5.0 for Dos on 5.25 and 3.5

There also was something really weird and boring. A hardware manual. Enjoy.

Quick & dirty pinout test for the db9, using a buzzer:
1st hit counts, I don't know MIDI cabling by heart, figure it out yourself. If inconclusive, please ask. I'm really bad at drawing and mirroring things in my head 😉
Pin count is fltr 1 through 5 and 6 through 9, looking at the female db9 plug on the cable and clockwise 3, 5, 2, 4, 1 on the female DINs.
(plug designations according to manual page 4, min1, min2, mout1, mout2)
1 on the db9 goes to red DIN, mout1, pin 5
2 - mout1, 4
3 - mout1, 2 and mout2, 2
4 - min1, 5
5 - min1, 4
6 - mout2, 5
7 - mout2, 4
8 - min2, 5
9 - min2, 4

Sorry for digging up the old thread, but i recently got a "CMS-401 II" card and i'm trying to make a breakout calbe for it.

First of all - thanks for the great collection of data (pictures, manual, etc.) of the card! 😀

I'm struggling a little bit with the pinout for the cable...

@Cuttoon: Could you maybe confirm if this pinout is correct?

Meanwhile i built the cable with pin layout mentioned above and borrowed an MT-32 to test the card, but sadly without success... No audio output and no sign on MT-32 display that it gets a signal... 🙁

Does anyone maybe have this card and confirm the pin layout for the cable?

Maybe i'm missing something else...?

Small update: I tried changing some chips to no avail...

I guess without Cuttoon's help i'm not going to solve this mystery. Sadly i can't write him a PM to ask him kindly for help, because i'm quite new to Vogons...

Could maybe someone give him a hint, to look at this thread? I know it's an odd request, but i really don't want to spam multiple posts in this awesome forum, just to reach an random post count to send a PM... 🙁

I've sent Cuttoon a PM to notify him about this thread.

Rolling wrote on 2023-05-25, 15:29:

Small update: I tried changing some chips to no avail...

I guess without Cuttoon's help i'm not going to solve this mystery. Sadly i can't write him a PM to ask him kindly for help, because i'm quite new to Vogons...

Could maybe someone give him a hint, to look at this thread? I know it's an odd request, but i really don't want to spam multiple posts in this awesome forum, just to reach an random post count to send a PM... 🙁

Hi there, thanks @ vetz for the message and sorry to you - the vintage bug keeps hitting me in strange intervals, between which the activity withers away again...

So, right now, I don't even have my equipment right at hand, but AFAIR, what I did for my 2020 pinout:
I merely looked up the conventional pin count of a db9 and a DIN and tried to detect the connections of the OEM cable.
Pin counts are a bloody headache, though and I utterly lack theoretical skills. (i.e., I'm simply not an engineer.)

First thing that comes to mind:
Your schematic makes sense to me if applied to the db9 on the card, but...
There might actually be a fixed global convention for plug schematics. (There isn't for numeric keypads, building floor count, etc., etc....)
Alas, I don't know it.
My inutitive hands-on personal-on-the-fly count meant to be "from left to right" looking at the plug on the cable, not the card from the "outside", so, against the cable, not with the cable, just as I applied the continuity tester.
Same for the DIN - my count was looking at the openings of the connector.

Most likely: You have to mirror the approach in your schematic, as my db9-1 was actually your 5. Sorry.

Please check if that solves it and feel free to ask further, but it may take a while until I get back to that stuff to check again.