Personally I have no connection to W2K whatsoever. W98SE was the last OS I was using before my 4 year "break away from computing". I have now settled for these parts:

- 440BX board
- Pentium 3 500MHz with a ghetto cooler fittet
- 256 MB Ram
- Two SATA to IDE adapters for DVD drive and 320GB notebook HDD
- Radeon 7000 AGP
- Voodoo 2 (I think it's a Diamond 12MB)
- Vortex 2 (Turtle Beach)

It will take me some time loading the software again, but I keep disk imaging in mind 😀

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

d1stortion wrote:

elfuego wrote:

I'm always playing UT'99 online from a fixed IP

On that note, damn those anticheat programmers forcing Win2k... 90% of all servers where people play are not joinable with a Win98 machine

What's so bad about using Win2k though? Its hardware requirements are only slightly higher than 98's, and it's pretty much a perfect fit on most P3 systems, I find.

Nothing against 2k but 98 is just the better choice when you're going to run some DOS games as well, and I don't feel like going dual boot for one game. And it's one thing when new games won't run on an older OS but breaking compatibility in an old game like UT is a really stupid move.

But on topic, Mau1wurf, maybe stick to Nvidia cards after all? From what I've heard compatibility with pre-DX7 games is supposed to be better, which will probably be a good deal of 3D games you'll be running on this, especially since your card doesn't even have HW T&L. But even with a faster card your CPU won't be up to spec for something like UT2k3/2k4 anyway...

I can confirm a TNT2 Ultra worked in my P3B-F, so it's something about your mainboard if you're sure your cards aren't faulty. So perhaps just use that i815 one since you're not aiming for DOS with that PCI sound card anyway? Just some thoughts 😀

I wish I had another 440BX board, but I don't. Did 3dMark2000 work on yours? The cards aren't faulty as the benchmarks complete fine on another system. I could go with a newer machine, but my last computer in my youth was a slot 1 machine with a Voodoo 2, so I'd like to get something similar. And I definitely would like an ISA card in that machine to try some of the old Glide games for DOS.

Now studying the manual, I'm reading about a jumper for the Voodoo 3? Now my revision doesn't have that jumper, but what is the significance? Was there some AGP compatibility issue?

UPDATE:

So this is the config I settled with for the time being.

- Gigabyte 440BX Board
- 256 GB Ram
- 320GB notebook HDD through SATA adapter with three 20GB partitions
- SATA DVD drive through SATA adapter
- AGP Radeon 7000
- PCI Voodoo 2 12MB
- PCI Vortex 2 + NEC385

I'll see how this performs in comparison with having had the Geforce and Audigy 2 LS before 😀

Yeah from what I've read pretty much all Gigabyte boards back then couldn't take Voodoo 3 and similar cards because they couldn't deliver the current those cards needed. But yours is listed among the ones that came after that and work so that shouldn't be the problem...

I can't tell you because I've only played HL and Q3 briefly on there but that worked fine... You could try a V3+V1 combo if you have it for better compatibility with DOS Glide games.

tincup wrote:

I install Acronis [v8 plays nice with W9x] and immediately make an image and save it to another partition. If/when you need to start over, much faster, just a few minutes. I'll also make a few more images at critical junctures to facilitate partial fall-backs - audio and video drivers especially. Keeping just the OS and critical system apps on C: speeds things up too..

I have the latest WD Edition of Acronis. It works of a Live CD. What I'd like to be able to do is taking an image of the first partition (Windows) and save it on the second and third partition and then being able to restore it.

There are also heaps of other free programs like Clonezilla and Redo Backup, but I haven't tried any of them yet 😀

d1stortion wrote:

I can't tell you because I've only played HL and Q3 briefly on there but that worked fine... You could try a V3+V1 combo if you have it for better compatibility with DOS Glide games.

Yea I was worried that I'd have to get a Voodoo 1. So there are quite some games that don't run on the V2?

The last games I played on my P2 / V2 machine were G-Police, Wing Commander Prophecy, Tomb Raider 2...

They must all have had Glide support considering that the Rage Pro is quite weak.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

They must all have had Glide support considering that the Rage Pro is quite weak.

The Voodoo2 also has DirectX drivers. (It can even do OpenGL if you go out of your way to persuade it.)

I wonder, would KernelEx work for running UT with the anti-cheat plugins on Win98?

Jorpho wrote:

It can even do OpenGL if you go out of your way to persuade it

Why such concern? Even first Voodoo got solid ICD.

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I wonder, would KernelEx work for running UT with the anti-cheat plugins on Win98?

Good question, someone who knows how to do it should give it a try 😁

Putas wrote:

Why such concern? Even first Voodoo got solid ICD.

Yeah but I guess he meant the fact that you have to copy the driver into the game folder, or else it'll just use the primary VGA.

d1stortion wrote:

Yeah but I guess he meant the fact that you have to copy the driver into the game folder, or else it'll just use the primary VGA.

Just like any opengl driver. What happens when you install Voodoo after primary card? But here the primary card is probably going to be stronger then Voodoo2 anyway.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I have the latest WD Edition of Acronis. It works of a Live CD. What I'd like to be able to do is taking an image of the first p […]
Show full quote

tincup wrote:

I install Acronis [v8 plays nice with W9x] and immediately make an image and save it to another partition. If/when you need to start over, much faster, just a few minutes. I'll also make a few more images at critical junctures to facilitate partial fall-backs - audio and video drivers especially. Keeping just the OS and critical system apps on C: speeds things up too..

I have the latest WD Edition of Acronis. It works of a Live CD. What I'd like to be able to do is taking an image of the first partition (Windows) and save it on the second and third partition and then being able to restore it.

There are also heaps of other free programs like Clonezilla and Redo Backup, but I haven't tried any of them yet 😀

d1stortion wrote:

I can't tell you because I've only played HL and Q3 briefly on there but that worked fine... You could try a V3+V1 combo if you have it for better compatibility with DOS Glide games.

Yea I was worried that I'd have to get a Voodoo 1. So there are quite some games that don't run on the V2?

The last games I played on my P2 / V2 machine were G-Police, Wing Commander Prophecy, Tomb Raider 2...

They must all have had Glide support considering that the Rage Pro is quite weak.

IIRC Tomb Raider 2 and 3 are Directx only

Alright, so I inherited a Gateway 500 with specs pretty similar to the OP last week and decided to turn it into a 90s game box myself. It had a Riva TNT built in but I also bought a Matrox Mystique 220 8MB and am dual booting Windows XP Pro and Windows 98SE. Everything pretty much worked with XP without any trouble, but I spent last week troubleshooting the Soundblaster Live! Value not actually playing audio in 98, various games and benchmarks not playing nice with the Mystique (esp 3D Mark 99 Max and Tomb Raider Mystique).

What I didn't expect this morning though was having trouble with the Riva TNT. I installed the drivers from the legacy section of Nvidia's current website (v 71.84) but 3DMark 2000 crashes and then Direct 3D shuts down in dxdiag. 3DMark 99 Max says the card doesn't support Direct X 6 and sometimes 3Dmark 2000 says the card doesn't support Direct X 7. The card ran fine in XP though, so I know it's a driver/directx issue.

I'm open to suggestions. I also posted some comments and videos of the Mystique playing Ultimate Race over at WAG forums.

sheath wrote:

Alright, so I inherited a Gateway 500 with specs pretty similar to the OP last week and decided to turn it into a 90s game box myself. It had a Riva TNT built in but I also bought a Matrox Mystique 220 8MB and am dual booting Windows XP Pro and Windows 98SE. Everything pretty much worked with XP without any trouble, but I spent last week troubleshooting the Soundblaster Live! Value not actually playing audio in 98, various games and benchmarks not playing nice with the Mystique (esp 3D Mark 99 Max and Tomb Raider Mystique).

What I didn't expect this morning though was having trouble with the Riva TNT. I installed the drivers from the legacy section of Nvidia's current website (v 71.84) but 3DMark 2000 crashes and then Direct 3D shuts down in dxdiag. 3DMark 99 Max says the card doesn't support Direct X 6 and sometimes 3Dmark 2000 says the card doesn't support Direct X 7. The card ran fine in XP though, so I know it's a driver/directx issue.

I'm open to suggestions. I also posted some comments and videos of the Mystique playing Ultimate Race over at WAG forums.

You need 61.76
ftp://download.nvidia.com/Windows/61.76/61.76 … ternational.exe

sheath wrote:

Alright, so I inherited a Gateway 500 with specs pretty similar to the OP last week and decided to turn it into a 90s game box myself. It had a Riva TNT built in but I also bought a Matrox Mystique 220 8MB and am dual booting Windows XP Pro and Windows 98SE. Everything pretty much worked with XP without any trouble, but I spent last week troubleshooting the Soundblaster Live! Value not actually playing audio in 98, various games and benchmarks not playing nice with the Mystique (esp 3D Mark 99 Max and Tomb Raider Mystique).

What I didn't expect this morning though was having trouble with the Riva TNT. I installed the drivers from the legacy section of Nvidia's current website (v 71.84) but 3DMark 2000 crashes and then Direct 3D shuts down in dxdiag. 3DMark 99 Max says the card doesn't support Direct X 6 and sometimes 3Dmark 2000 says the card doesn't support Direct X 7. The card ran fine in XP though, so I know it's a driver/directx issue.

I'm open to suggestions. I also posted some comments and videos of the Mystique playing Ultimate Race over at WAG forums.

The TNT2 was not the first nVidia card to have hardware T&L. The GeForce 256 was.

Well at least on the TNT2 3DMark99Max ran for me. But not 2000 (because that needs DX7). I don't have a TNT though...

sebaz_ri wrote:

You need 61.76
ftp://download.nvidia.com/Windows/61.76/61.76 … ternational.exe

Ah thanks, downloading it now. Did I miss a general info thread for "best drivers" or best practice with various hardware? It seems like all of the readme's for various driver installers say to change your primary adapter to a basic microsoft VGA adapter before updating. I used to just delete the driver in safe mode and then reboot and install the new driver.

sliderider wrote:

The TNT2 was not the first nVidia card to have hardware T&L. The GeForce 256 was.

Okay, I think we were using the Riva 128 and 256 lines interchangeably with the TNT and TNT 2 lines. I now know for sure that they are not the same, the 128 driver really didn't work with my TNT card. 😉

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Well at least on the TNT2 3DMark99Max ran for me. But not 2000 (because that needs DX7). I don't have a TNT though...

Did you manage to keep a lower Direct X version installed? I screwed up and updated mine to 9.0c and now I can't get rid of it without formatting and reinstalling (supposedly). Deleting the Direct X folders in the registry didn't do it for me, and Matrox's desktop software claims it is incompatible with the newer version of Direct X. At first I thought that was why 3DMARK 99 Max had no textures, but apparently that is just the way the G220 chipset turns out. 😒

@Mau1wurf: I found a list describing what boards are compatible with Voodoo 3. Since you said you have the older revision without the jumper that's most likely the issue, especially with benchmarks drawing too much power from the board. Your Radeon is probably crappy enough to draw less power and therefore work in this board 😜

sheath wrote:

Did you manage to keep a lower Direct X version installed? I screwed up and updated mine to 9.0c and now I can't get rid of it without formatting and reinstalling (supposedly). Deleting the Direct X folders in the registry didn't do it for me, and Matrox's desktop software claims it is incompatible with the newer version of Direct X. At first I thought that was why 3DMARK 99 Max had no textures, but apparently that is just the way the G220 chipset turns out. 😒

Yesterday I played around with a fresh installation of Windows and what I did:

- Install Windows
- Service Pack
- Radeon driver (This was with a Radeon 7000)
- Sound Driver (Turtle Beach)
- Diamond Voodoo 2 Driver
- Install Directx 9
- Install Benchmarks

Both benchmarks ran fine. On both the Radeon and the Voodoo 2.

d1stortion wrote:

@Mau1wurf: I found a list describing what boards are compatible with Voodoo 3. Since you said you have the older revision without the jumper that's most likely the issue, especially with benchmarks drawing too much power from the board. Your Radeon is probably crappy enough to draw less power and therefore work in this board 😜

Crappier than the FX5200? 😜

Anyway I'm kinda over this W98 thing. Too many issues and oddly enough there aren't that many games that I want to play anyway 😒

Might come back to it later, but I think I will build another Super Socket 7 machine with a focus on DOS and with Sound Cards that I can't put into my other machines.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Yesterday I played around with a fresh installation of Windows and what I did: […]
Show full quote

Yesterday I played around with a fresh installation of Windows and what I did:

- Install Windows
- Service Pack
- Radeon driver (This was with a Radeon 7000)
- Sound Driver (Turtle Beach)
- Diamond Voodoo 2 Driver
- Install Directx 9
- Install Benchmarks

Both benchmarks ran fine

Yeah, with the Nvidia driver above my Riva TNT ran both 3DMARK 99 MAX and 2000 just fine as well using Direct X 9.0c. They'll be a no-go for the Matrox Mystique I guess.

It's hard enough getting a single device going, but once you mix stuff it just gets really tricky. Can't blame them, back in the day nobody envisioned that people would do this. Same with ISA Sound Cards, a real pain. You really got to build several machines it seems...

And the other thing is that most games run quite well on newer XP machines without all the headache.