VOGONS


First post, by KT7AGuy

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The fastest Win9x-compatible graphics card is the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra. However, we all have heard that the GF6x00 series cards have issues with some older games. In particular, 8-bit paletized texture support stopped with the last of the GF FX5xx0 series cards. But, what games are affected? I have a 6800GT that I was thinking of using and I'd like to make an informed decision. So, let's make a list of games that have problems. I'll start:

I know for sure that European Air War by Microprose is affected. There is a fan-made update that may or may not correct the problems. However, EAW in its original and officially-patched form has serious issues with the GF6 series.

Reply 2 of 35, by KT7AGuy

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Wow! So far, only three games with issues. One of those three may even be playable with fan-made patches.

Well, I guess the GF6 series isn't nearly as problematic as I had previously thought. I'm going to go ahead and use it in my future project. If I can't get EAW working with it, I guess that's what FX5 and Voodoo 2 cards were made for, right?

Reply 3 of 35, by Mau1wurf1977

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I have heard that Splinter Cell (and Pandora) have issues with lightning and shadows on newer cards. Might be worth checking out? Something to do with the Xbox console having a FX based video chip.

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Reply 6 of 35, by noshutdown

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anyway, i don't really recommend using cards newer than geforce4 or drivers newer than 30.82 on a win98 rig. they are both released in 2002 and shall be sufficient to run most games for win98, while newer drivers(supporting geforce5 and 6) may cause more problems, as the priority of win98 support was already dropping by that time.

Reply 7 of 35, by elfuego

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noshutdown wrote:

anyway, i don't really recommend using cards newer than geforce4 or drivers newer than 30.82 on a win98 rig. they are both released in 2002 and shall be sufficient to run most games for win98, while newer drivers(supporting geforce5 and 6) may cause more problems, as the priority of win98 support was already dropping by that time.

... 🙄
and I'd recommend either a 3dfx-based card or a GF 6. Nothing else is really worth a hassle. Comments such as 'may cause problems' remind me of the famous saying: "scientists have proven that...". Which scientists? Or better said, what problems? Where, in which game, with what application? GF6 is just superior in both 2D and 3D quality and supports new wide screens beautifully compared to older cards. I've never seen a game that works on GF4 and does not work on GF6 (I, personally, never played final fantasy, nor EAW).

However, it remains to be seen if the list of incompatible games ends with the three listed ones. So, please, if anyone knows of any other incompatible games - list it 😀

Reply 9 of 35, by d1stortion

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I have heard that Splinter Cell (and Pandora) have issues with lightning and shadows on newer cards. Might be worth checking out? Something to do with the Xbox console having a FX based video chip.

It has a GF3, not FX.

Reply 10 of 35, by noshutdown

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elfuego wrote:

and I'd recommend either a 3dfx-based card or a GF 6. Nothing else is really worth a hassle. Comments such as 'may cause problems' remind me of the famous saying: "scientists have proven that...". Which scientists? Or better said, what problems? Where, in which game, with what application? GF6 is just superior in both 2D and 3D quality and supports new wide screens beautifully compared to older cards. I've never seen a game that works on GF4 and does not work on GF6 (I, personally, never played final fantasy, nor EAW).

of course you can go into it seriously, as i have indeed no evidence on whether problem A or B is caused by running geforce6 with windows98.

however, i always suggest to get away from potential issues as far as possible, maybe i have gone lazy after having enough pain in most recent years with win98, including frequent BSODs caused by terminating a program(IE6 for most of the time) that had stopped responding. i guess most people would agree that win98 is not an os known for its stability and memory management(if you don't than i shall not discuss this with you), the only thing we can do is trying to keep everything simple, including the damn drivers.

besides, geforce6 is a good card itself and i don't think there are many problems caused by it. however by the time of its release in 2004, most modern games utilizing its features would simply refuse to run on win98, making there no real point using it on a win98 rig.

Reply 11 of 35, by ratfink

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Are there any games that actually require Windows 98 and a GF6 series? What's driving the question?

Some info here maybe:

(Non-voodoo) video card considerations when building Win9x system?

Reply 12 of 35, by KT7AGuy

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ratfink wrote:

Are there any games that actually require Windows 98 and a GF6 series? What's driving the question?

You're right. Any game that requires Win9x to run is going to perform beautifully even on a GF3 Ti500. There's no real burning need for an FX5 or a GF6. But you know, there's always some guy that has to shove a V8 engine into a Pontiac Fiero... Why? Just to have it go as fast as it possibly can. 😉

Personally, I just want one of my Win98SE gaming rigs to be as fast as possible. The GF6800 provides that performance. If it's going to give me headaches, I'll use an FX5950 or FX5900 instead.

Also, I'm kinda thinking that I might build this into a legacy 98SE/XP dual-booter. The CPU is an Athlon 64 3400+ Venice with 1GB of RAM. With the 6800GT, I think it would make a pretty nice XP legacy box too.

Reply 13 of 35, by Jorpho

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noshutdown wrote:

i guess its drivers(supporting dx9c) had become too complicated to run in windows98, which is not a very stable OS itself.

This page suggests that HIMEMX is vital to getting the 6800's drivers to function correctly.

Reply 14 of 35, by swaaye

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GeForce 5/6 become very useful if you like high resolution, anti-aliasing, and anisotropic filtering and still want that solid 60 fps.

I've found you need to stay with DirectX 7 or older for stability with NVIDIA on 9x though. With any NV card.

Reply 15 of 35, by elfuego

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noshutdown wrote:

besides, geforce6 is a good card itself and i don't think there are many problems caused by it. however by the time of its release in 2004, most modern games utilizing its features would simply refuse to run on win98, making there no real point using it on a win98 rig.

The well known stability issues of win98 are totally unimportant and completely irrelevant to this topic so its not even worth mentioning; but this last statement my friend, this is the heart of the matter. As our friend swaaye wisely stated:

swaaye wrote:

GeForce 5/6 become very useful if you like high resolution, anti-aliasing, and anisotropic filtering and still want that solid 60 fps.

...let me just add here the native support for wide screens and HD resolutions, perfect TV-out and flawless 2D VGA output (which is problematic on 90% of the el-cheapo GF2/4). This way we can paint the complete picture as to the real point of using GF 6 on (also, but not limited to) a win98 rig. 😊

Reply 16 of 35, by keropi

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swaaye wrote:

GeForce 5/6 become very useful if you like high resolution, anti-aliasing, and anisotropic filtering and still want that solid 60 fps.

I've found you need to stay with DirectX 7 or older for stability with NVIDIA on 9x though. With any NV card.

exactly, that's why I build a p4@2.4ghz/6800GT 98SE machine... all "demanding" games go there , the rest on the 200mmx machine 😀
Though I do use DX8 without problems on mine...

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Reply 17 of 35, by noshutdown

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elfuego wrote:

The well known stability issues of win98 are totally unimportant and completely irrelevant to this topic so its not even worth mentioning;

since you are aware of the known stability issues of win98, i would rather keep everything simple in attempt to avoid them as much as possible, including stay away from nvidia's later drivers which are growing larger and larger.

Reply 18 of 35, by elfuego

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noshutdown wrote:

including stay away from nvidia's later drivers which are growing larger and larger.

OK back to the topic - why stay away from them? Did you experience any particular problems with them aside from not working properly in the couple of games that are listed here? 🙄 If so, please share your experience with us, this is what the thread is all about! 😊

BTW, I believe the drivers stopped growing larger and larger back in 2005:

NVIDIA Windows 9x/ME wrote:

ForceWare Release 80
Version: 81.98
Release Date: December 21, 2005

Reply 19 of 35, by sliderider

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I have heard that Splinter Cell (and Pandora) have issues with lightning and shadows on newer cards. Might be worth checking out? Something to do with the Xbox console having a FX based video chip.

XBox does not use GeForce FX it uses nVidia nv2A which is derived from GeForce3 but with an additional vertex shader similar to GeForce4 Ti. It's clocked lower than GeForce3 Ti500, though, so performance is in the GeForce3 range.