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5.25" floppy

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First post, by bucket

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My next project will be resurrecting my dad's IBM 5150. It's a ways off and I haven't looked into it yet; I'm still in the "poking around eBay" phase. Getting software onto the machine would be the challenge (assuming everything still works) because most of his disks are HAM radio programs that are not at all useful to me. As it stands, I'd have to acquire boot disks and such from the internet and get them onto the 5150 somehow. I could...

a) Buy an external or internal 5" floppy drive. This might be cool, because I could also peruse my old C64 collection.
b) Put a 3.5" drive into the 5150. The other floppy drive is half-height so it would be an easy install.
c) Plug the HDD into a newer desktop, if that's at all possible.

So (a) is the most beneficial but also the most expensive. In fact, it looks as if cost and benefit are correlated. What is everyone else's experience?

Reply 1 of 8, by VileR

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a) is probably your best bet, though doing anything with C64 disks is probably out of the question.
b) could work if you stick to low-density disks (720kb).
c) ...don't think so, but that may depend on how new that desktop is.

Other options which could be useful in the long run, if you can get the system to a bootable state:

d) use Laplink or similar (some versions can self-install on a remote machine if you can boot DOS and have the proper cable).
e) get an 8-bit capable network card and use something like mTCP to interface with a modern machine.
f) get an XTIDE/XT-CF controller (google those) and equip the old beast with a nice, big IDE drive or a CF card.

Haven't had any personal experience with the above... just for your consideration. See also:
http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/transfer/transfer.htm

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Reply 2 of 8, by bucket

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Are you sure I couldn't also use it for C64 disks? I'd imagine at least I could rip it to a .D64 image for use in an emulator. I'm sure you understand it's a preferable option if I'm going to be spending the money/effort anyway.

EDIT: I'd assumed that the 8088 still used an IDE interface for the hard drive. If that's not the case then a 3.5" drive would be the easy way. My dad has a laptop with both a 3.5" drive and internet capability; the challenge then would be finding another drive that fits in the 8088.

Reply 3 of 8, by VileR

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C64 disks are GCR encoded, PC controllers can only read MFM. That's why there's a niche for specialty controllers for dumping non-PC disks (Catweasel, Kryoflux etc.)

If you want IDE on a 8088 then XT IDE might be worth investigating. I belive that at least some versions of its BIOS might support hi-density floppy access too, which is nice if you're going to use a 3.5", though I'm honestly a bit confused about the whole thing with its multiple revisions and ongoing development.

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Reply 4 of 8, by mbbrutman

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You need boot diskettes. DOS 3.3 would probably be fine. DOS 5 or 6.x will work but are probably overkill.

An easy solution for data transfer is to get an old Microsolutions Backpack drive with a 3.5" 1.44MB drive in it. You need a small device driver to use it, but it makes exchanging data very easy.

mTCP is an option, but for a floppy based system it is probably overkill.

Original PCs, XTs and ATs do not use IDE hard drives. If they have a hard drive, it probably has an MFM controller on it. IDE was possible, but that was a rare option. Hence the need for XT-IDE. (SCSI was also an option.)

XT-IDE is a wonderful option, but it is only a hard drive controller. There is no version with a floppy controller, and there is no version of it with a BIOS that supports high density floppy drives. (That would require a controller with the faster data rate, with the stock PC does not have.) However, you can use a CF card with an adapter on it so it makes it really easy to move files and to backup.

Reply 5 of 8, by VileR

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mbbrutman wrote:

XT-IDE is a wonderful option, but it is only a hard drive controller. There is no version with a floppy controller, and there is no version of it with a BIOS that supports high density floppy drives.

Right - I stand corrected. Was probably confusing things with the XT-FDC project...

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Reply 6 of 8, by BigBodZod

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If you want to read GCR diskette's then get the Catweasal interface card from Individual Computers.

ISA Version:
http://www.jschoenfeld.com/home/indexe.htm

PCI Version:
http://www.jschoenfeld.com/home/indexe.htm

I think I still have my old ISA card stored away, been looking to get one of the PCI models.

The issue is that the drivers do not support or run on newer Windows versions.

No matter where you go, there you are...

Reply 8 of 8, by SquallStrife

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bucket wrote:

Are you sure I couldn't also use it for C64 disks? I'd imagine at least I could rip it to a .D64 image for use in an emulator. I'm sure you understand it's a preferable option if I'm going to be spending the money/effort anyway.

EDIT: I'd assumed that the 8088 still used an IDE interface for the hard drive. If that's not the case then a 3.5" drive would be the easy way. My dad has a laptop with both a 3.5" drive and internet capability; the challenge then would be finding another drive that fits in the 8088.

The 5150 was never sold with a HDD, it was only available as an aftermarket addon. The PC XT was the first model to come with a HDD.

Back then you used the ST-506 interface, nothing like IDE.

Some really late model 8086 machines shipped with 8-bit IDE, like the Tandy 1000 RL, but not the 5150.

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