Well the way I see it, even back in the days, non-powered speakers represented the cheapest option. Powered speakers and proper Hi-Fi towers already existed. So getting powered speakers doesn't mean you will lose authenticity if that's what you are worried about.

I wouldn't use headphones with these cards. Sometimes they make loud pops and this could hurt your ears. I have two 4 in 1 audio switches which then go into a 4 channel Stereo mixer. There I can plug in my headphones, one output goes to my capture PC and another output to some basic powered Logitech 2.0 speakers.

Personally I recommend 2.0 speakers (so no sub) as the concept of subs didn't really take off until much later.

The authenticity is not what worries me. I still rework the Line-Out portions as well, but if I was only worried about using Line-Out then I would just keep using a Live! or Audigy, etc. I just don't want to ignore the functionality of these cards.

Also, my point is to help show that the amplification stage with a set of modest, passive speakers really wouldn't have been so bad except that as with every mass-produced product, the bean-counters made sure that only cheap components were used.

However, I feel I should point out that in the case of cards like PAS16's, SB16's, etc., which had a TEA2025B or similar amplifier IC, a very realistic, alternative modification would be to remove the large filter caps, entirely and place them at the speakers, instead treating them as crossover capacitors, which is basically what they are, but moving them off the cards and onto the drivers themselves would allow you to more easily install film capacitors to bypass the electrolytics with, and first and foremost replacing the old, polarized electrolytics with what almost always end up being larger, bipolar electrolytics.

While I did get what you do, I didn't got your motivation for this.
Of course reworking the output stage of an old soundcard improves analog quality. But you loose the cards authenticity and you can not use it anymore for comparisons towards other cards from this time. At least not as a PAS f.e.
A certain frequency response is a characteristic of an old soundcard. Just compare an SB16 and GUS. After your output stage rework they would probably sound quite similar, while the original cards do not.

And for SBLive! if it about quality, why don't you simply use the digital output?
Wouldn't it be much better signal wise to convert the final audio stream directly in the specific speaker to shorten the analog voltage path to a minimum?
From my experience (which is not so much from lf audio signals) the capacity of a short path is much better defined and you could even measure this before, then calculate digital filter coefficients with MATLab f.e. and apply a filter with a DSP directly inside the specific speaker to normalize the response function of the output.

Probably some old soundcards also allow to pick up the digital signal already, so you could disconnect the whole analog output stage and work with the digital output in some separate external device.

On the contrary, I have both SB16's and PAS16's, both of which have their own analog amplification which suffers from the same problem--low-quality, incorrect capacitors. It's probably time for an upgrade to a slightly better quality 3.5mm stereo jack as well. I don't see how upgrading the components, which allows you to only more clearly hear the quality of each manufacturers tech a compromise of authenticity. I know in the musical instrument world we often leave old, specific style capacitors or resistors in the signal paths to recreate a sound that a particular guitar player or bass player had, but this is of no interest to me when it comes to sound cards.

I would rather hear what DoomII or TIe Fighter should have sounded like had they been played through high-quality components, and not inferior components which resulted in high distortion, etc.

As far as digital output, to me this would essentially make the cards useless. We weren't using digital output back then--only SPK OUT or LINE OUT. Call me crazy, but I get a kick out of restoring old stuff, and improving what they did back then with newly improved tech is only more fascinating to me.

Whether or not both cards will sound the same after being updated, I don't think this is as likely as you may feel. For instance, in the amplification stages of each card they use differen't topology. One card may have used a TEA2025B and filtered the output with 470uF capacitors, which is what the OpAmp called for, but I"ve seen other cards in which the manufacturer decided to use 1000uF filter caps, which is going to increase low-frequency output while harming high-frequency output so both cards will still have a distinct sound, but without much of the distortion the cards originally had. And this will allow them to better control the drivers in those old sets of passive (non-powered) PC speakers that many of us had back in the day.

Both SB16's and PAS16's use totally different analog topology so even with the best components they will not sound the same. Their processors outputting the same sound files from games may sound very alike so that when exiting their Line-Out ports you may have trouble differentiating, unless you are playing MIDI's.

Anyway, call me crazy, but I just find it fun. Now, I'm going to have to find some old sets of PC speakers from yesteryear.

Logistics wrote:

I would rather hear what DoomII or TIe Fighter should have sounded like had they been played through high-quality components, and not inferior components which resulted in high distortion, etc.

Then it's time to get some Roland MIDI gear 😀

Did this DOOM soundtrack just recently.

DOOM Soundtrack - Roland SC-55 Sound Canvas - Real Hardware - No Emulators

There are not that many games that ONLY support FM and no MIDI whatsoever. At least with the new games, they almost all support MIDI so that's what I would focus on...

I'm keeping an eye out for that stuff at my local shops. But that only helps me with the music. 😀 What about BFG blasts or lasers hitting my deflector shields? 😀

Logistics wrote:

I'm keeping an eye out for that stuff at my local shops. But that only helps me with the music. 😀 What about BFG blasts or lasers hitting my deflector shields? 😀

Sound Blaster Pro 2 with disabled output filter! It's a mixer option and makes sounds a lot brighter with more detail.

But that's just my personal recommendation...

The first time I ever got a card with a "speaker out" was my AWE32 CT2760.

Plugged some headphones into it, and it was ridiculously noisy. Unlistenable. The line-out, by contrast, was quite clean and still plenty loud for headphone use. If it wasn't, I'd just get an external amp anyway.

Ideally, I'd just use the S/PDIF-out header to a modern DAC, but word is that PCM digital audio effects aren't actually mixed into the S/PDIF output on AWE32 cards, which defeats the purpose to me.

Let's try to keep one thing in perspective in regards to the SPK OUT: You can use it for headphones, but only certain types. Let's use the Sound Blaster cards as an example, most of them having a TEA2025B. This OpAmp is meant for 4-32 Ohm impedance. Ideally, it's just meant for 4 Ohm and 8 Ohm desktop speakers because by the time you get to 16 and even 32 Ohms you start running really low on power, but that's okay if you're using headphones of those impedances.

The headphones I use with these cards are MDR-V700's which depending on which revision you have could take anywhere from 1W to 3W of power. And they are 24-Ohm so they aren't in any danger of being melted down; you're in more danger of causing the OpAmp to clip.

But you're not going to have any sort of pleasing listening experience if you're trying to run a set of 600-Ohm or higher headphones off the speaker out as it's just not meant for that. You could run a pair of Skullcandy's off it, but even though they are 16-Ohm, they can only take something along the lines of 70mW I believe which is 0.07W, correct? You'll bust those real fast.

Anyway, this is why you could run some high-impedance headphones off the Line-Out as it is better matched.

Just want to revisit this thread as I never actually got an answer to the subject question. Does anyone here use passive speakers with an ISA soundcards' powered output?

Matthew

Logistics wrote:

Just want to revisit this thread as I never actually got an answer to the subject question. Does anyone here use passive speakers with an ISA soundcards' powered output?

Matthew

no. I don't even have passive speakers. Even back in the 90s I only used passive speakers for a short time, before I hooked my PC up to a proper stereo amplifier.

I don't understand why anyone would want to do so either. The Signal gets noticeably worse going from line out to speaker out and the quality of passive speakers is dreadful compared to even reasonably cheap powered ones.

Huh. I’ve been using speaker out with all my speakers for the past 25 years. It never occurred to me to plug them in anywhere else.

I use the (amplified) speaker out jack to hook up a (3-inch IIRC) mono-speaker into my Sound Blaster AWE64 CT4500. The case I use in my Slotket system had a place for a speaker of some sort, so I fitted a smallish speaker from an old pair of portable Sony speakers into the speaker placement of that case. It's not the best sounding solution, but it gets the job done. At least with this setup, I can have another pair of speakers hooked up to the sound card's line out jack if I wanted to while keeping the integrated speaker plugged into speaker out.

Logistics wrote:

Does anyone here use passive speakers with an ISA soundcards' powered output?

I do, for most sound cards I own.